How did you like your bar prep program? Forum

[styr]

And either Barbri should partner with AdaptiBar, purchase AdaptiBar, or just be very very clear that students understand that the Barbri MBE questions are meant to prepare you, but they aren't supposed to mimic MBE questions, but just help the student to understand concepts that will be on the MBE.

OK, so I did all the Barbri MBE questions on the PSP and then some. I listened to all the lectures, many of them twice. I don't remember once seeing or hearing anything about service on minors, which this MBE hit twice (1% of all questions!). I don't remember anything about notice for Rule 11 motions. I don't remember anything about "ready, willing, and able" buyers. I don't remember anything about the Fair Housing Act (WTF body of law does that even fall under?). I'm sure there's more I don't remember that I ended up seeing for the first time ever on the MBE. No, I didn't read every word of the comprehensive outlines, as if I had time for that in two months beyond the PSP. I'm not seeing how the Barbri MBE practice questions were such a help to prepare for the July 2016 MBE.

[1down1togo]

And either Barbri should partner with AdaptiBar, purchase AdaptiBar, or just be very very clear that students understand that the Barbri MBE questions are meant to prepare you, but they aren't supposed to mimic MBE questions, but just help the student to understand concepts that will be on the MBE.

OK, so I did all the Barbri MBE questions on the PSP and then some. I listened to all the lectures, many of them twice. I don't remember once seeing or hearing anything about service on minors, which this MBE hit twice (1% of all questions!). I don't remember anything about notice for Rule 11 motions. I don't remember anything about "ready, willing, and able" buyers. I don't remember anything about the Fair Housing Act (WTF body of law does that even fall under?). I'm sure there's more I don't remember that I ended up seeing for the first time ever on the MBE. No, I didn't read every word of the comprehensive outlines, as if I had time for that in two months beyond the PSP. I'm not seeing how the Barbri MBE practice questions were such a help to prepare for the July 2016 MBE.

Themis had nothing on service to minors. Fair housing act was in lecture and a few practice questions- not sure if they hit exact topic. Ready willing and able buyer was in outline and practice Qs. They also had multiple questions about rule 11 motions and at least one that dealt with notice.

[MCFC]

There were definitely BarBri questions about sanctions. Maybe not that exact fact pattern. I didn't think the ready willing and able question required any special knowledge.

[1down1togo]

There were definitely BarBri questions about sanctions. Maybe not that exact fact pattern. I didn't think the ready willing and able question required any special knowledge.

I agree. Don't want to talk specifics, but I think it was less about ready willing and able then the application of another principle

[thegrayman]

I used barbri for both NY and CA, passed both first try. I also used critical pass flashcards and adaptibar, I highly recommend both.

I thought that barbri did a great job of prepping its students. There isn't a perfect program out there, but they do a very good job of providing you with the information that you need. I found their CA essay lectures and examples to be a great resource.

I'm sure other prep companies are comparable, such as Themis, but I can't comment on them because I didn't use them.

[rcharter1978]

I used barbri for both NY and CA, passed both first try. I also used critical pass flashcards and adaptibar, I highly recommend both.

I thought that barbri did a great job of prepping its students. There isn't a perfect program out there, but they do a very good job of providing you with the information that you need. I found their CA essay lectures and examples to be a great resource.

I'm sure other prep companies are comparable, such as Themis, but I can't comment on them because I didn't use them.

See, I don't think the essay component of Barbri is very good at all, for the following reasons

1. No standardization -- You don't always get the same grader, so you may get grader A who is giving you a 65-70, and great supporting notes, and then you get grader B who is giving you a 55 with very vague notes. Its hard to know what to make of it all when you realize that there really is no standardization. Do you trust grader A and keep doing your thing, or do you try to figure out what grader B was talking about? There are stories of people literally copying the Barbri or bar released essay answer word for word and getting a 55. Maybe if you had the same grader the entire time it would be different because that one person would know your work and your progress.

2. Incomplete assessments -- I truly, truly think that essay feedback not only needs to be about what you put in the essay but the things that you can leave out. When I started to work with a tutor, he would straight up tell me "this essay is too long, there is no way you can do this in an hour" and he would tell me about things that I could leave out of the essay, or how I could shorten the essay so that I could use my time efficiently. And even then it was hard to finish three essays in three hours for me. But it was at least do-able.

3. Too much of a focus on model answers -- this ties back to point 2. In looking through the Barbri materials, for the essays they would generally have an outline (helpful) and then a model answer. Which was super long and probably not something the average student could replicate in an hour. By focusing on model answers, its not really helpful to the average student who isn't going to have time to write all of that. I think the best help is in recognizing that students have a limited time and helping them to set realistic goals for what they want to get in an essay. The tutor I worked with would cut so much from the analysis sections of my essays and make it compact and faster to write. It would be great if everyone had the time to write a model answer, but you just don't. I think its great to look at model answers, but a student doesn't need to write a model answer, they need to write an answer that gets them a 65...maybe a 70....or even a 62.5. An essay help you get should be focused on working to get you to that number, not to try to make you write a model answer.

4. Exactly how are they trained? -- I started to have my doubts about how Barbri trains essay graders with the feedback all over the map. When I decided to get a tutor it was extremely important to me that the tutor had experience as a bar grader. I think it made a world of difference, because so much of the feedback was actionable. But I wonder how much Barbri tutors know about bar grading, and what things a grader would consider important if they haven't trained with a bar grader or worked as a bar grader.

[bnghle234]

Did Barbri for CA, doing most of what they assigned, I think around 90%. I felt prepared at the end of the day, even though some will complain about their MBE practice questions and what not. They were close enough in my opinion.

I will say, though, that I would only recommend Barbri if your firm is paying for the course or money's not an issue. If I had to pay for the prep course on my own, I would go with something cheaper. I've heard good things about Themis.

[sublime]

Like everybody else, I will feel very differently depending on if I pass. Still think barbri was relatively okay. I think it is a lot to ask for them to include every super minor thing possible to be tested, while still making it manageable.


I agree though that of paying for it I would have gone with Themis.

[afarmerfromiowa]

There were definitely BarBri questions about sanctions. Maybe not that exact fact pattern. I didn't think the ready willing and able question required any special knowledge.

Yeah I thought the question said "ready, willing and able to buy on [certain terms]"

[speed_the_loot]

Like everybody else, I will feel very differently depending on if I pass. Still think barbri was relatively okay. I think it is a lot to ask for them to include every super minor thing possible to be tested, while still making it manageable.


I agree though that of paying for it I would have gone with Themis.

+1. I think people are being a tad unrealistic about wanting Barbri to cover every conceivable topic. And I wouldn't be surprised if the NCBE switches up the MBE questions regularly enough to account for the adjustments Barbri actually makes, just to keep everyone on their toes.

[StarLord23]

I personally used Barbri and thought it was fine for the essays, but it was a complete waste of time and money for the MBE. Their questions were not that close and their lecturers completely missed the point on what would be tested. I wouldn't use them again if I was paid to after how badly I felt prepared for this test. Oh, and their civil procedure stuff wasn't even close to the same.

I've not heard anyone really say much about Kaplan. What was everyone's thoughts that used them?

If I failed, I wouldn't be crazy about paying for another prep course, but I am not about to use Barbri again, even if for free. Definitely telling underclassmen at my school to go with someone other than Barbri.

[Kragoth180]

Let you know in November

[L_William_W]

I've not heard anyone really say much about Kaplan. What was everyone's thoughts that used them?

I didn't take the Kaplan course. However, I used their materials. The Kaplan MBE's are the closest in format and level of difficulty to the real exam.

[SLS_AMG]

I feel like BarBri's MBE questions aren't any less difficult, but they seem longer than real MBE questions and their emphasis seemed to be on materials that the examiners placed less emphasis on.

To be honest, I'm kinda disappointed in what the bar examiners choose to test. I feel like they go out of their way to test some of the less important exceptions to rules, whereas BarBri seems to test stuff that would be more important in real life. The test is already unrealistic enough in that it asks you to memorize ridiculous amounts of law and then recite/apply it on command -- something an actual lawyer will never be asked to do. You'd think at the very least the examiners would test on the important topics rather than the fifth amendment of an obscure federal rule of civil procedure.

[StarLord23]

I feel like BarBri's MBE questions aren't any less difficult, but they seem longer than real MBE questions and their emphasis seemed to be on materials that the examiners placed less emphasis on.

To be honest, I'm kinda disappointed in what the bar examiners choose to test. I feel like they go out of their way to test some of the less important exceptions to rules, whereas BarBri seems to test stuff that would be more important in real life. The test is already unrealistic enough in that it asks you to memorize ridiculous amounts of law and then recite/apply it on command -- something an actual lawyer will never be asked to do. You'd think at the very least the examiners would test on the important topics rather than the fifth amendment of an obscure federal rule of civil procedure.

But the fact is that, in the end, our opinions of what the examiners choose to test do not matter. Nothing about this test is practical.

[StarLord23]

I've not heard anyone really say much about Kaplan. What was everyone's thoughts that used them?

I didn't take the Kaplan course. However, I used their materials. The Kaplan MBE's are the closest in format and level of difficulty to the real exam.

Did you feel that was the case with this MBE? I am really looking at a different path to take if faced with the prospect of retaking in February. I think a prior post summarized it well: Your prep course will not change it's approach, but you should. If it was even remotely close to the MBE, it was way better than Barbri for this administration.

[whitecollar23]

I know we have the "choosing a bar prep program" sticky, but it seems some people think a particular program might not be the gold standard anymore. I've also noticed Themis users have seemed the most comfortable with how prepared they were for this July's exam.

Not saying it's not a question worth asking, but I think people's opinions may change somewhat depending on whether they ultimately pass (most people come out of the exam freaked out).

Just throwing it out there-

That's why now is the best time to ask the question. Better to biased by how you felt during the exam than about your results. If people with one course felt consistently terrible, it might mean something.

[theInnerCircle]

Kinda of frustrated w/ Barbri. Didn't like how the subjects were all jumbled up. Heard that Kaplan force feeds you the big 7 MBE subjects first. Would've liked that.

Also thought Barbri didn't give out enough multiple choice practice. While they provide you w/ a shit ton, I felt like they assign too few at a time and you gotta give yourself an extra kick to plan around handling another 18, everyday, least. Sucked especially since my jurisdiction places most weight on MBE, so I was constantly more worried about MBE than essays. MBE is ballz.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I know we have the "choosing a bar prep program" sticky, but it seems some people think a particular program might not be the gold standard anymore. I've also noticed Themis users have seemed the most comfortable with how prepared they were for this July's exam.

Not saying it's not a question worth asking, but I think people's opinions may change somewhat depending on whether they ultimately pass (most people come out of the exam freaked out).

Just throwing it out there-

That's why now is the best time to ask the question. Better to biased by how you felt during the exam than about your results. If people with one course felt consistently terrible, it might mean something.

Except that if you pass it doesn't really matter how you felt about the course.