Barbri + What Else? Forum

[Rap Genius]

I just saw that the newest edition of Strategies and Tactics has OPE 4 in it. OPE 4 alone is 50 dollars so it seems like the book would run only 25 dollars more (if you were planning on using NCBE's OPEs). Does anyone know if the remainder of the book uses any other OPE questions? Do the earlier editions use other OPEs?

[Rap Genius]

I'm such an asshole for asking. The book includes over 500 NCBE questions, each of which has been asked on past exams.

[squiggle]

I'm such an asshole for asking. The book includes over 500 NCBE questions, each of which has been asked on past exams.

It also includes 200 civ pro questions. I'm hoping they're good, because I can't seem to find good civ pro questions anywhere.

[rinkrat19]

I found Adaptibar helpful because it gave me my MBE percentile scores against other people in my STATE, not just the country. Comforting yourself with "you only need to beat 30% of people taking the test" like Barbri repeats ad nauseum is a big fat fail in a state with higher minimum passing score (Oregon pass = approx. national median).

Emanuel has the best explanations, though.

My 2nd time around I didn't watch any Barbri videos. I mostly used Barbri for reading lots of example essays (and outlining some). For MBE, I used Adaptibar and Emanuel. I'd do like 10 questions from each topic, then go back and grade them. Then review the answers, and for every question I'd write out the rule statement of the correct answer in a notebook, whether I'd gotten it right or wrong. The notebook was just a long, nonsensical list of rule statements, but I think the act of mentally isolating the rule statement into a sentence and then physically writing it out (with nice pens on nice paper--make the act itself pleasurable) helped pound them into my head better. Then I'd do a mixed subject set of 25 or 50, and review them the same way. Rinse, repeat.

[paraguayfargus]

I'm retaking and not going to fail. Here's what I'm doing:

- Barbri (base review course)
- Adapti Bar (trying to dominate the MBE and make the essays less important)
- Lean Sheets (Quick review early morning / before bed)
- Hacking the Bar Exam (book with a lot of weird advice, but I'm pulling out all the stops)

I'm pretty happy with the above set up!

[L_William_W]

I'm not a bar exam expert. My MBE was a mediocre 130.2. I only passed because I wiped the floor with the essays. And in NJ, the essays are predictable (though they're changing it to UBE in February- take it NOW before it becomes more difficult)


My MBE went from a 123.2 in February 2015 to a 130.2 in July 2015. Adaptibar has two major flaws:

1) You'll be taking the bar exam (at least the MBE section) with a pen and paper. You won't be doing it on a computer. Wouldn't it make sense to get acclimated to the conditions of the exam?

2) Adaptibar questions DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT reflect the material on the actual exam. In the February 2015 exam, I wasted $400 on Adaptibar. The questions are MUCH easier than the questions on the actual exam. The NCBE is not in the business of helping you. They deliberately make questions tricky since there's a fixed percentage of people that they want to pass. They mislead you by releasing past questions. However, those questions DON'T reflect the actual material on the CURRENT exam. They're questions from exams that took place 15-20 years ago. Adaptibar uses those questions.

When I used Adaptibar in February 2015, I was averaging around 60% in Contracts and Property. On the actual exam, I think I got about 1/3 of the questions in those respective sections correct.

The Kaplan questions are some of the trickiest and tedious questions you'll see...just like the real exam. My advice is to not worry about the amount of questions you complete, but to understand why you got something wrong and not to repeat the same mistake. Eventually, you'll discover patterns in the questions and answers.

One more thing: make your own outlines. You won't pass by memorizing an outline someone else made. When you're making your outlines, you're actively processing information.

[storge]

Posted this in other threads, but since there's a lot of talk about Emanuel's here...

If anyone is interested, I'm selling my Strategies & Tactics for the MBE + MBE 2 books by Emanuel as a set. I used these when I studied for the Feb. 2016 bar exam, but I only had time to read through all the tips (which were invaluable in themselves) -- all the Questions are untouched so the books are essentially new. I'll also send the additional CivPro Q's that came with these books when I bought them. PM me for the listing link.

Good luck to all!

[mvp99]

I'm not a bar exam expert. My MBE was a mediocre 130.2. I only passed because I wiped the floor with the essays. And in NJ, the essays are predictable (though they're changing it to UBE in February- take it NOW before it becomes more difficult)


My MBE went from a 123.2 in February 2015 to a 130.2 in July 2015. Adaptibar has two major flaws:

1) You'll be taking the bar exam (at least the MBE section) with a pen and paper. You won't be doing it on a computer. Wouldn't it make sense to get acclimated to the conditions of the exam?

2) Adaptibar questions DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT reflect the material on the actual exam. In the February 2015 exam, I wasted $400 on Adaptibar. The questions are MUCH easier than the questions on the actual exam. The NCBE is not in the business of helping you. They deliberately make questions tricky since there's a fixed percentage of people that they want to pass. They mislead you by releasing past questions. However, those questions DON'T reflect the actual material on the CURRENT exam. They're questions from exams that took place 15-20 years ago. Adaptibar uses those questions.

When I used Adaptibar in February 2015, I was averaging around 60% in Contracts and Property. On the actual exam, I think I got about 1/3 of the questions in those respective sections correct.

The Kaplan questions are some of the trickiest and tedious questions you'll see...just like the real exam. My advice is to not worry about the amount of questions you complete, but to understand why you got something wrong and not to repeat the same mistake. Eventually, you'll discover patterns in the questions and answers.

One more thing: make your own outlines. You won't pass by memorizing an outline someone else made. When you're making your outlines, you're actively processing information.

How many correct answers were you averaging just before the exam? My guess is 123 is getting about 54% right.

[LawDawg2016]

Posted this in other threads, but since there's a lot of talk about Emanuel's here...

If anyone is interested, I'm selling my Strategies & Tactics for the MBE + MBE 2 books by Emanuel as a set. I used these when I studied for the Feb. 2016 bar exam, but I only had time to read through all the tips (which were invaluable in themselves) -- all the Questions are untouched so the books are essentially new. I'll also send the additional CivPro Q's that came with these books when I bought them. PM me for the listing link.

Good luck to all!

Saw this on Amazon. I have the Emanuel 5th edition. When I looked yours up on amazon, I saw the MBE 2 is something different. Does it stand alone. For example, if I wanted to buy the MBE 2 and keep my 5th edition (without civ pro) would it be helpful at all? Thanks

[teabreeze]

People in different threads keep mentioning that Adaptibar isn't representative of the actual bar exam MBE questions, but aren't the Adaptibar questions ONLY bar exam questions that were actually tested in the past?

[blueapple08]

People in different threads keep mentioning that Adaptibar isn't representative of the actual bar exam MBE questions, but aren't the Adaptibar questions ONLY bar exam questions that were actually tested in the past?

Yes, but for Civ Pro, there aren't enough released old exam questions, so Adaptibar makes up a portion of them. Hence why a lot of people seem to think their CivPro questions are not that great. But for their other subjects, I have found them so much more helpful than the Barbri ones. The Barbri ones are just awful all around, in my opinion.

[teabreeze]

People in different threads keep mentioning that Adaptibar isn't representative of the actual bar exam MBE questions, but aren't the Adaptibar questions ONLY bar exam questions that were actually tested in the past?

Yes, but for Civ Pro, there aren't enough released old exam questions, so Adaptibar makes up a portion of them. Hence why a lot of people seem to think their CivPro questions are not that great. But for their other subjects, I have found them so much more helpful than the Barbri ones. The Barbri ones are just awful all around, in my opinion.

Ah, makes sense.

What I like about Adaptibar is that it breaks down your performance based on sub-topics so that you can really pinpoint where you're losing points and brush up on the substantive law there.

[teabreeze]

I'm not a bar exam expert. My MBE was a mediocre 130.2. I only passed because I wiped the floor with the essays. And in NJ, the essays are predictable (though they're changing it to UBE in February- take it NOW before it becomes more difficult)


My MBE went from a 123.2 in February 2015 to a 130.2 in July 2015. Adaptibar has two major flaws:

1) You'll be taking the bar exam (at least the MBE section) with a pen and paper. You won't be doing it on a computer. Wouldn't it make sense to get acclimated to the conditions of the exam?

2) Adaptibar questions DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT reflect the material on the actual exam. In the February 2015 exam, I wasted $400 on Adaptibar. The questions are MUCH easier than the questions on the actual exam. The NCBE is not in the business of helping you. They deliberately make questions tricky since there's a fixed percentage of people that they want to pass. They mislead you by releasing past questions. However, those questions DON'T reflect the actual material on the CURRENT exam. They're questions from exams that took place 15-20 years ago. Adaptibar uses those questions.

When I used Adaptibar in February 2015, I was averaging around 60% in Contracts and Property. On the actual exam, I think I got about 1/3 of the questions in those respective sections correct.

The Kaplan questions are some of the trickiest and tedious questions you'll see...just like the real exam. My advice is to not worry about the amount of questions you complete, but to understand why you got something wrong and not to repeat the same mistake. Eventually, you'll discover patterns in the questions and answers.

One more thing: make your own outlines. You won't pass by memorizing an outline someone else made. When you're making your outlines, you're actively processing information.

How do you know that Adaptibar questions are from exams that took place 15-20 years ago? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm currently using Adaptibar so I want to know for my own sake.

[sublime]

I'm not a bar exam expert. My MBE was a mediocre 130.2. I only passed because I wiped the floor with the essays. And in NJ, the essays are predictable (though they're changing it to UBE in February- take it NOW before it becomes more difficult)


My MBE went from a 123.2 in February 2015 to a 130.2 in July 2015. Adaptibar has two major flaws:

1) You'll be taking the bar exam (at least the MBE section) with a pen and paper. You won't be doing it on a computer. Wouldn't it make sense to get acclimated to the conditions of the exam?

2) Adaptibar questions DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT reflect the material on the actual exam. In the February 2015 exam, I wasted $400 on Adaptibar. The questions are MUCH easier than the questions on the actual exam. The NCBE is not in the business of helping you. They deliberately make questions tricky since there's a fixed percentage of people that they want to pass. They mislead you by releasing past questions. However, those questions DON'T reflect the actual material on the CURRENT exam. They're questions from exams that took place 15-20 years ago. Adaptibar uses those questions.

When I used Adaptibar in February 2015, I was averaging around 60% in Contracts and Property. On the actual exam, I think I got about 1/3 of the questions in those respective sections correct.

The Kaplan questions are some of the trickiest and tedious questions you'll see...just like the real exam. My advice is to not worry about the amount of questions you complete, but to understand why you got something wrong and not to repeat the same mistake. Eventually, you'll discover patterns in the questions and answers.

One more thing: make your own outlines. You won't pass by memorizing an outline someone else made. When you're making your outlines, you're actively processing information.

How do you know that Adaptibar questions are from exams that took place 15-20 years ago? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm currently using Adaptibar so I want to know for my own sake.

It looks like they have access to all questions the NCBE has ever released, so if that includes ones from 15-20 years ago, then yes:

Additionally, the NCBE only offers a few hundred licensed questions for purchase, while AdaptiBar has access to all 1,530

http://www.adaptibar.com/blog/?p=636

[L_William_W]

Yeah, I'm deliberately giving people bad advice because I want them to fail the bar for my own sadistic pleasure...

I know that Adaptibar is BS because I actually USED it. I used it to prepare for the February 2015 bar exam. When I saw the ACTUAL exam, I thought to myself, "What the hell is this?" The Adaptibar questions were easier than the ones on the exam, particularly in Contracts and Property. My MBE was a pathetic 123.2. When I studied for the July 2015 bar, I didn't use Adaptibar. My MBE was a 130.2 (which is still low, but it was enough to pass since I took care of business on the essays).

I'm going to say this one more time: THE NCBE DOESN'T RELEASE PAST QUESTIONS. They're in the business of making your life miserable. They don't play by the rules. It's not like the SAT where the actual questions on past exams are released. There's one caveat: the NCBE releases a few questions from exams 15-20 years ago. Those questions are retired, meaning that they're either based on old law or they don't reflect the format or level of difficulty of the CURRENT exam. If the NCBE was actually nice enough to release MBE's based on the current material then practically everyone would score over 140 on the MBE section. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

So if you want to blow $400 and get a false sense of security then good luck passing the bar.

[sublime]

Yeah, I'm deliberately giving people bad advice because I want them to fail the bar for my own sadistic pleasure...

I know that Adaptibar is BS because I actually USED it. I used it to prepare for the February 2015 bar exam. When I saw the ACTUAL exam, I thought to myself, "What the hell is this?" The Adaptibar questions were easier than the ones on the exam, particularly in Contracts and Property. My MBE was a pathetic 123.2. When I studied for the July 2015 bar, I didn't use Adaptibar. My MBE was a 130.2 (which is still low, but it was enough to pass since I took care of business on the essays).

I'm going to say this one more time: THE NCBE DOESN'T RELEASE PAST QUESTIONS. They're in the business of making your life miserable. They don't play by the rules. It's not like the SAT where the actual questions on past exams are released. There's one caveat: the NCBE releases a few questions from exams 15-20 years ago. Those questions are retired, meaning that they're either based on old law or they don't reflect the format or level of difficulty of the CURRENT exam. If the NCBE was actually nice enough to release MBE's based on the current material then practically everyone would score over 140 on the MBE section. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

So if you want to blow $400 and get a false sense of security then good luck passing the bar.

Chill. He or she (reasonably) asked for a source for a claim you made (which you still didn't provide).

[teabreeze]

Yeah, I'm deliberately giving people bad advice because I want them to fail the bar for my own sadistic pleasure...

I know that Adaptibar is BS because I actually USED it. I used it to prepare for the February 2015 bar exam. When I saw the ACTUAL exam, I thought to myself, "What the hell is this?" The Adaptibar questions were easier than the ones on the exam, particularly in Contracts and Property. My MBE was a pathetic 123.2. When I studied for the July 2015 bar, I didn't use Adaptibar. My MBE was a 130.2 (which is still low, but it was enough to pass since I took care of business on the essays).

I'm going to say this one more time: THE NCBE DOESN'T RELEASE PAST QUESTIONS. They're in the business of making your life miserable. They don't play by the rules. It's not like the SAT where the actual questions on past exams are released. There's one caveat: the NCBE releases a few questions from exams 15-20 years ago. Those questions are retired, meaning that they're either based on old law or they don't reflect the format or level of difficulty of the CURRENT exam. If the NCBE was actually nice enough to release MBE's based on the current material then practically everyone would score over 140 on the MBE section. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

So if you want to blow $400 and get a false sense of security then good luck passing the bar.

Why so defensive? I expressly wrote "not that I don't believe you" in my post to show that I wasn't trying to imply that you were lying. I was simply curious as to the source because I had never heard this before. But yeah, thanks for reacting like that.

[teabreeze]

I'm not a bar exam expert. My MBE was a mediocre 130.2. I only passed because I wiped the floor with the essays. And in NJ, the essays are predictable (though they're changing it to UBE in February- take it NOW before it becomes more difficult)


My MBE went from a 123.2 in February 2015 to a 130.2 in July 2015. Adaptibar has two major flaws:

1) You'll be taking the bar exam (at least the MBE section) with a pen and paper. You won't be doing it on a computer. Wouldn't it make sense to get acclimated to the conditions of the exam?

2) Adaptibar questions DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT reflect the material on the actual exam. In the February 2015 exam, I wasted $400 on Adaptibar. The questions are MUCH easier than the questions on the actual exam. The NCBE is not in the business of helping you. They deliberately make questions tricky since there's a fixed percentage of people that they want to pass. They mislead you by releasing past questions. However, those questions DON'T reflect the actual material on the CURRENT exam. They're questions from exams that took place 15-20 years ago. Adaptibar uses those questions.

When I used Adaptibar in February 2015, I was averaging around 60% in Contracts and Property. On the actual exam, I think I got about 1/3 of the questions in those respective sections correct.

The Kaplan questions are some of the trickiest and tedious questions you'll see...just like the real exam. My advice is to not worry about the amount of questions you complete, but to understand why you got something wrong and not to repeat the same mistake. Eventually, you'll discover patterns in the questions and answers.

One more thing: make your own outlines. You won't pass by memorizing an outline someone else made. When you're making your outlines, you're actively processing information.

How do you know that Adaptibar questions are from exams that took place 15-20 years ago? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm currently using Adaptibar so I want to know for my own sake.

It looks like they have access to all questions the NCBE has ever released, so if that includes ones from 15-20 years ago, then yes:

Additionally, the NCBE only offers a few hundred licensed questions for purchase, while AdaptiBar has access to all 1,530

http://www.adaptibar.com/blog/?p=636

Interesting, thanks! I wonder why and how Adaptibar has access to questions that test takers don't.

[sublime]

Interesting, thanks! I wonder why and how Adaptibar has access to questions that test takers don't.

Yea, I tried to find some verification of what the angry dude was talking about but that was the closest I could get. I already have it, so I am not that worried about it and am hoping that between the made up Barbri questions and the real Adaptibar questions, I can get the best of both worlds so to speak.

[L_William_W]

I apologize for getting emotional. The whole outcome of your life is determined by a single exam and the NCBE plays all of these games to make sure that you don't pass that exam. I view bar prep as a war. And I was just mad at the fact that I spent a lot of money on bar prep materials that proved to be useless. However, what works for one person may not work for another. What I said was just my opinion. I shouldn't have acted like my opinion was the only valid opinion.

[sublime]

I apologize for getting emotional. The whole outcome of your life is determined by a single exam and the NCBE plays all of these games to make sure that you don't pass that exam. I view bar prep as a war. And I was just mad at the fact that I spent a lot of money on bar prep materials that proved to be useless. However, what works for one person may not work for another. What I said was just my opinion. I shouldn't have acted like my opinion was the only valid opinion.

All good man, no worries. Appreciated the information your post had regardless.

[Redfactor]

Yeah, I'm deliberately giving people bad advice because I want them to fail the bar for my own sadistic pleasure...

I know that Adaptibar is BS because I actually USED it. I used it to prepare for the February 2015 bar exam. When I saw the ACTUAL exam, I thought to myself, "What the hell is this?" The Adaptibar questions were easier than the ones on the exam, particularly in Contracts and Property. My MBE was a pathetic 123.2. When I studied for the July 2015 bar, I didn't use Adaptibar. My MBE was a 130.2 (which is still low, but it was enough to pass since I took care of business on the essays).

I'm going to say this one more time: THE NCBE DOESN'T RELEASE PAST QUESTIONS. They're in the business of making your life miserable. They don't play by the rules. It's not like the SAT where the actual questions on past exams are released. There's one caveat: the NCBE releases a few questions from exams 15-20 years ago. Those questions are retired, meaning that they're either based on old law or they don't reflect the format or level of difficulty of the CURRENT exam. If the NCBE was actually nice enough to release MBE's based on the current material then practically everyone would score over 140 on the MBE section. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

So if you want to blow $400 and get a false sense of security then good luck passing the bar.

I have the opposite feeling about the NCBE. I think the company goes out of its way to make things available so that you really don't need a bar prep company to pass the test.

When I first started my Barbri course and learned that there would be 27 questions from subject X, and 13 or 14 would come from subgroup Y, I was like "hell yeah! Barbri did the analysis and can predict the test! This is money well spent!" In actuality, NCBE produces a master outline freely available that tells you exactly what is in bounds, out of bounds, and how many questions will be asked of various subgroups. (If you haven't seen it, I suggest at least glancing at it for 10,000 ft view to studying.) That alone is worth its weight in gold!!!

Think about how much more difficult the exam would be if that information didn't exist and bar prep companies had to "prepare for everything." The only reason Barbri is able to say that you don't need to master everything, just make you get get the core concepts of Y and Z down, is because NCBE openly publishes that it's okay to take that approach and still succeed. To me, that doesn't sound like NCBE is actively working against test takers at all. (It is working for a bell distribution where some students do not perform well, but that is not the same.)

They also provide practice exams using "questions drawn from actual MBEs administered in recent years." I plan to incorporate those on mock exam days.

As for the Adaptibar questions, I like them. The feedback I've gotten from my trusted friends who've taken the bar is that those questions are much more representative of what you'll find on test day than the Barbri ones. Will they be an exact match? Of course not -- otherwise NCBE's raw scores would skyrocket out of control compared to prior years and the test would not be of any value.

I am sorry the bar exam didn't go well for you the first time and am happy that it went well-enough the second go around. I also appreciate that you're here to help others. You've passed the bar! There is no incentive for you to give any misleading information. Here's my dilemma though: even when you threw Adaptibar away and studied with superior materials, you still performed below median on the MBE. That suggests to me that you may not be a good standardized test taker. I truly mean no disrespect by this comment. The reality is though that the bar, for better or worse, is a standardized test. Some people are good at them, others aren't. Out of curiosity, what was your LSAT score, if you don't mind sharing?

[ellewoods123]

For those of you using Adaptibar - I know we're supposed to be aiming for 70%, so I'm wondering what the value is of at least being above the "state" and "national" average percentages. I'm at about 62% right now after about 300 questions and I know that's not safe - but does that mean actually getting 62% of the real MBE correct is also not safe in pass zone?

...I'm trying to make myself feel better about the 62%..

[Redfactor]

For those of you using Adaptibar - I know we're supposed to be aiming for 70%, so I'm wondering what the value is of at least being above the "state" and "national" average percentages. I'm at about 62% right now after about 300 questions and I know that's not safe - but does that mean actually getting 62% of the real MBE correct is also not safe in pass zone?

...I'm trying to make myself feel better about the 62%..

My understanding is that would be about a 134 scaled score for the MBE portion.

There is obviously some room to improve, but you can pass with a 134.


I would also point out that the 62% might not be an accurate reflection of where you currently are. Your percentage should be improving, so presumably your first questions should be lower than 62% and your recent questions above 62%.

If your percentage isn't improving over time, then taking a look at your study methods is probably more important than focusing on percent correct at this stage of prep.

[not guilty]

In need of a Adaptibar discount code please