Doing bar prep while still in law school? Forum

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JazzOne

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by JazzOne » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:53 am

Manali wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Manali wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
skeenbr0 wrote:
Manali wrote:It seems like higher ranked schools tend not to offer these sorts of courses.
Those probably aren't the schools that need to improve their bar passage rates. If you look at passage rates, there are a few regional exceptions, but the schools with the top pass rates tend to be places that are high on the national rankings as well.
I would agree with this to some extent. but judging from conversations I have had with my coworkers (i.e., law school faculty), I also think that there is an attitude of superiority at highly ranked schools. Many law school professors feel like it is beneath them to teach bar prep. I do not share their mentality. I think it is the duty of a professional program to prepare its students for licensure.
You're a law professor?
I'm an adjunct at a T1. I am trying to get a tenure-track position, but I will probably have to move down to a T2 when that happens.
How much do adjuncts usually make per class/semester? What sorts of qualifications are needed to become an adjunct--do rank/grades matter as much as for tenure track positions?
I only have experience at one law school, so I can't say what adjuncts typically make. At my law school, the pay rate is $2,500 per credit hour. It's hard to make a living as an adjunct. The only reason it is feasible for me is that I also teach at the business school and in the biology department at my university. And I run a business on the side.

It's hard to say what the qualifications are to be an adjunct. Most adjuncts have a significant amount of experience practicing law (10+ years). A majority of legal academics seem to come from HYS or Chicago. I don't get the sense that grades or class rank are hiring considerations, but law review and clerkships are pretty standard among legal academics, so grades and class rank have an indirect effect on hiring. I honestly don't even get the sense that grades are an important factor for tenure-track positions. I think the tenure-track hiring committees are more concerned with teaching experience (at the law school level), publication record, law school prestige, and clerkship prestige.

The reason I wanted to know what law school you attend is that I have more than 10 years of experience teaching test prep. I am interested in reaching out to law schools that hire bar prep instructors, but I am only interested in professor-rank positions, whereas some law schools employ bar prep instructors in administrative positions. And then there are law schools like mine that will not teach bar prep even though the #2 and #3 law schools in the state are beating the flagship law school in bar passage rates according to recently-published data.

Manali

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by Manali » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:08 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Manali wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Manali wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
skeenbr0 wrote:
Manali wrote:It seems like higher ranked schools tend not to offer these sorts of courses.
Those probably aren't the schools that need to improve their bar passage rates. If you look at passage rates, there are a few regional exceptions, but the schools with the top pass rates tend to be places that are high on the national rankings as well.
I would agree with this to some extent. but judging from conversations I have had with my coworkers (i.e., law school faculty), I also think that there is an attitude of superiority at highly ranked schools. Many law school professors feel like it is beneath them to teach bar prep. I do not share their mentality. I think it is the duty of a professional program to prepare its students for licensure.
You're a law professor?
I'm an adjunct at a T1. I am trying to get a tenure-track position, but I will probably have to move down to a T2 when that happens.
How much do adjuncts usually make per class/semester? What sorts of qualifications are needed to become an adjunct--do rank/grades matter as much as for tenure track positions?
I only have experience at one law school, so I can't say what adjuncts typically make. At my law school, the pay rate is $2,500 per credit hour. It's hard to make a living as an adjunct. The only reason it is feasible for me is that I also teach at the business school and in the biology department at my university. And I run a business on the side.

It's hard to say what the qualifications are to be an adjunct. Most adjuncts have a significant amount of experience practicing law (10+ years). A majority of legal academics seem to come from HYS or Chicago. I don't get the sense that grades or class rank are hiring considerations, but law review and clerkships are pretty standard among legal academics, so grades and class rank have an indirect effect on hiring. I honestly don't even get the sense that grades are an important factor for tenure-track positions. I think the tenure-track hiring committees are more concerned with teaching experience (at the law school level), publication record, law school prestige, and clerkship prestige.

The reason I wanted to know what law school you attend is that I have more than 10 years of experience teaching test prep. I am interested in reaching out to law schools that hire bar prep instructors, but I am only interested in professor-rank positions, whereas some law schools employ bar prep instructors in administrative positions. And then there are law schools like mine that will not teach bar prep even though the #2 and #3 law schools in the state are beating the flagship law school in bar passage rates according to recently-published data.
I believe professors teach the bar prep class at my school (not administrative positions).

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northwood

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by northwood » Sun May 01, 2016 11:50 am

A big portion of the bar exam is learning HOW to take the bar exam (i.e how to structure essays, budget time and answer the questions). Your bar exam program may spend some time on this but you really need to have a good grasp at formulating your essay response in case you need to make up the law from the seat of your pants because you got an issue that you don't know that well). This could help reduce stress/anxiety in your bar prep study (which you will inevitably have enough of already)

Plus, a pass/fail option or 2 credits will reduce the number of finals that you need to prep for.

So, why not take it? It seems like a great idea (and a law firm most likely won't look down on the course if they want to see your transcript).

THE_U

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by THE_U » Sun May 01, 2016 11:58 am

My school offered a bar-prep class for our state section of the bar exam, my last semester. It was extremely helpful and made studying for my state section much easier during the summer. If a pass-fail class is going to make you burn out for the summer, then that is pretty bad, I'm sorry.

Manali

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by Manali » Thu May 05, 2016 1:47 pm

THE_U wrote:My school offered a bar-prep class for our state section of the bar exam, my last semester. It was extremely helpful and made studying for my state section much easier during the summer. If a pass-fail class is going to make you burn out for the summer, then that is pretty bad, I'm sorry.
I'm not too worried about burn-out. I was just concerned about how employers would see that on your transcript. I've pretty much made up my mind to take it though. If it's a choice between a P/F class and a letter-graded one, P/F is always the credited response.

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Neve

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by Neve » Sat May 14, 2016 10:47 am

Just take classes that are on the bar exam, like trusts and estates, family law, secured transactions, etc.

I took Texas Matrimonial Property and Trusts and Estates my last semester of law school and those were great classes for the written portion of the Texas Bar Exam (covered 5 out of 12 essay topics). I didn't take the bar prep class my school offered since it got mixed reviews.

Manali

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Re: Doing bar prep while still in law school?

Post by Manali » Mon May 16, 2016 6:11 pm

Neve wrote:Just take classes that are on the bar exam, like trusts and estates, family law, secured transactions, etc.

I took Texas Matrimonial Property and Trusts and Estates my last semester of law school and those were great classes for the written portion of the Texas Bar Exam (covered 5 out of 12 essay topics). I didn't take the bar prep class my school offered since it got mixed reviews.
I'd prefer to take a pass-fail class than a letter-graded bar course.

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