California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread Forum

[crazyventures]

Just an update re: no confirmation email. I called the State Bar office in LA this morning and the lady said you're fine as long as you received a confirmation number on the website.

[jobhunter13]

Just an update re: no confirmation email. I called the State Bar office in LA this morning and the lady said you're fine as long as you received a confirmation number on the website.

thanks, found out the same. they can confirm your app was submitted properly as well. . . . phewf.

[Lasers]

hi guise.

i'm still looking for a prep course and am now leaning towards themis...good idea?

and fuck the century city hotel is expensive...it's probably decently nice, sure, but expensive.

[ilovesf]

hi guise.

i'm still looking for a prep course and am now leaning towards themis...good idea?

and fuck the century city hotel is expensive...it's probably decently nice, sure, but expensive.

I'm leaning towards this too but I also haven't decided yet.

[Apple Tree]

I signed up with Themis. I just can't justify spending $3000 more on Barbri, and I don't think I'll be compromising on quality.

Also, I used airbnb to book my stay in Pasadena. I got a very nice condo that's 5 min walk to the test center for $150/night. Not the best deal, but it's bigger and cheaper than most hotels within walking distance.

[Lasers]

hi guise.

i'm still looking for a prep course and am now leaning towards themis...good idea?

and fuck the century city hotel is expensive...it's probably decently nice, sure, but expensive.

I'm leaning towards this too but I also haven't decided yet.

nice. i'm in good company. it'd be nice to get a themis group going on tls if i do end up going with them.

[Lwoods]

My admission status lists my test center now.

[patogordo]

My admission status lists my test center now.

where do you see that?

[Lwoods]

My admission status lists my test center now.

where do you see that?

California Bar Exam section. It lists exam applied for (July 2014), eligibility (TBD), and location.

https://sbc.calbar.ca.gov/default.aspx

[lisavj]

Staring up the mountain, lookin' forward to a marathon in Australia afterwards, think that'll be less painful...

...can't believe this started already. $#!t. Checking in.

[WonkyPanda]

My admission status lists my test center now.

where do you see that?

California Bar Exam section. It lists exam applied for (July 2014), eligibility (TBD), and location.

https://sbc.calbar.ca.gov/default.aspx

Same here as well. I guess that means our testing center is officially set?

[hyc9598]

To all takers, I would really recommend a different course than Barbri for the California bar exam. I am not trying to exaggerate or intimidate people when I say that, from discussing it with others as well, the entire February exam seemed premised on evading any subject which Barbri placed emphasis on. Most of the essays were premised on points which took up approximately 4 sentences to 1 page of the 80 page Barbri subject outline. I literally do not think even one essay went over a major topic and most were based on the equivalent of a Barbri footnote. Anyways, I'd check with other takers but from one Barbri student, I'd highly advise looking elsewhere.

Problem is that Themis offers more detailed outlines (esp. MBE subjects). BUT Barbi offers better direction on good writing style. You don't need to know obscure topics to pass the CA bar if you can kill the MBE, nail the black letter law on CA essays with the common topics, and go a bit more shallow with decent analysis on the crazy stuff. The CA bar usually throws in something no one knows on the essays. Two exams ago it was slavery. This exam it was zoning. If you screw up on that one area, the worst you can do is maybe drop 5 points on one essay.

If you want to pass on the cheap, use Themis's course to do black letter law and MBE prep, buy Barbri's writing materials off of Ebay.

Barbri, Barbri, Barbri, Write, Write, Write, Practice, Practice, Practice.

[james11]

For those of you taking the July 2014 exam, I am reposting some advice from the July 13 thread that I found to be really good:

This is the original thread post - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=213457&start=1375

You can do it, and possibly only with a little over a month of studying. Some background: I failed a class in the Spring semester and had to write a makeup research paper to get my diploma this year. Because I had to do this paper, I couldn't get started with my bar studying until the last week of June. During the 5 weeks before the bar exam, I studied about 6-8 quality hours per day (although I did step it up to 8-10 hours the week before the exam). I didn't watch video lectures (except for Evidence) and I hardly used any of the material provided by bar prep courses. By and large, I stopped doing MBE questions in the last week. Despite all this, I passed, and I left each day of the bar exam feeling like I had passed.

(A) For MBE questions, I used the BarMax iPad app to drill. But in terms of really learning some of the nuances for harder MBE questions, I got a lot of mileage out of the Emmanuel's "Strategies and Tactics" for the MBE. I think my scores averaged around 70% by the time the bar rolled around.

(B) With respect to the non-PT essays, I highly recommend you do the following:

(1) Buy a set of Leansheets for the California Bar (you can Google up "leansheets California Bar") and commit to memorizing and being able to regurgitate the materials from those sheets. The Leansheets are not exhaustive, but they are good enough, and most of all humanly manageable. The only downside to the Leansheets is that they are very tersely worded; you might need an old BarBri Conviser to give you more verbose explanations of the rules.

(2) Get a subscriptions with baressays dot com. The pairing of model essays with old questions is a GODSEND. What I did was I went through all the model essays for the past 7-8 years for a given topic, and I just wrote down all the different headings and subheadings. This gave me an idea of what the distribution was for legal issues tested on the exam. As you'll see, 90% of the issues that come up for any essay in any topic is something that has been asked before in the past 5-6 years. Once I knew what the predictable "universe" of recurring issues was, I just made sure that I could spit out a rules statement that more or less hit all the major elements of the model answer's rule statement. The essays are all about the setup; once you have your rules statement, you just need to methodically work through each element and discuss whether it is present or not based on the facts.

(3) PRACTICE YOUR BUTT OFF. With a baressays account, you have no excuse for being unprepared when it comes to the 1-hour essays. Once you've done step (2) above, do every single essay you can for a given topic, starting from older essays and working your way up to more recent ones (you want to practice with the most recent questions the week before the exam). When you first do essays, stick with one subject per day, and do one essay at a time for at least 2-3 essays a day. Sticking to one topic and doing multiple essays in that topic will make it easier for you to learn and internalize the rules. Starting from at least two weeks before the exam, you should be doing the essays in a cluster of three to simulate the actual test taking experience.

Remember: it is the practicing which will actually get you to memorize your rule statements. Always compare your answer against the model essay. Don't rely on a grader, as all that will do is give you an excuse to wait around for the grader to get back to you. Immediately after you do a practice essay take a 10 minute break tops, and compare your answer against the model. By reviewing right after taking a practice exam you maximize your retention of the material. I kid you not, I felt like I was going to fail until about a week before the bar exam when I flew out to California early and locked myself in a hotel room for a week, and just drilled essays all day (well not really *all* day; just 8-10 hours). Until that week, all of my rules statements were very vague and iffy; constantly writing them down in a timed setting, in response to a hypo, was what really crystallized those rules for me. Also, if you run out of essays to practice, just start from the beginning again. Even if you recognize a hypo, you get the benefit of refreshing your memory by just going through the practice of typing your rules statements into a blank document.

(C) With respect to the PTs: once again, practice is king. And really what it is you're practicing with the PTs is reading and drafting. I think half the battle with PTs is just being able to finish in a coherent way, and that requires development of reading and drafting skills.

"Reading skills" refers to the ability to: quickly decide whether material is relevant or not; markup the library and file in a way which allows you to return to key facts/language/issues efficiently; and get through the material at a good pace with adequate comprehension.

"Drafting skills" refers to the ability to: identify and select a format which allows you to present your arguments in a way which is both logical (e.g., arranging issues from most important/convincing to least important/convincing), efficient (e.g., with a minimum of repetition, by using phrases like "supra" and "see analysis above"), and easy to read (e.g., using ample underlining and empty spaces to make reading your essay easier on the graders); and phrase your thoughts in clear and succinct language.

Ultimately, my stance on the PTs is this: for most mortals, it's just not possible to identify all the possible issues and present complete analysis for each of those issues. What you need to create is a product that passes the smell test: it looks lawyerly (formatting and organization); it sounds lawyerly (logical and methodical writing and analysis); and it shows a sufficient amount of intelligence and effort (provides at least some kind of response to each legal question raised by the client/call of the question, and in doing so provides a meaty analysis for 70-80% of the possible issues, and nearly all of the really big ones).

Given my position above, when it came to PTs all I did to cross-check my answers was to make sure I hit most of the issues that the model answers (or high scoring applicant answers) identified. I didn't stress out about my answer's format looking very different from the model or high scoring answers. As long as my answers were objectively well-organized, easy to read, and complete (i.e., introductory and conclusory sections, and no headings or subheadings left unfilled), I knew I was in good shape.

TL; DR: For the MBE: drill using BarMax; learn nuances from Emmanuel's "Strategies and Tactics for the MBE". For the essays: Learn the law from Leansheets, using BarBri Conviser as a supplement if you need more detail/explanation; get a baressays subscription and practice essays until your fingers drop off. For PTs: keep practicing until you can consistently draft memos which are well-organized, easy to read, hit most of the issues, and look complete (no unfilled sections; complete intro and conclusion).

And in general: practice all of the above until you are able to consistently finish with an extra 10-15 minutes for each hour of work. So be able to finish individual essays with 10-15 minutes to spare, and be able to finish your PTs with about half an hour to spare. That will give you enough time to tidy up your PTs, double-check for any quick issues you might have missed, or go back to a previous essay in order to flesh out another issue. Also, you never know what condition you'll be in during the exam. Being able to finish early gives you a safety buffer. I had bronchitis the week before and during the exam, and I lost a good 5-10 minutes of every hour having to get up, go outside, cough and drink water.

[jarofsoup]

I am still stressing out on whether I want to take the CA bar. My debate:

I live in DC. Immediately after school I plan to work in DC, but some day I will (90% sure) move back to CA (like 4 years from now) For DC all you need to do is get above a 133 on the MBE. CA's pass rate for my school is above 80% but low nationally.

NY has a much higher pass rate--like 95ish for my school and 90 for all ABA approved schools.

I just don't want to fail the CA bar and get fired, but I do not want to take the bar twice.

I am thinking that I should just man up and do CA and register. I have already cleared the CF for CA.


Opinions?

[ph14]

I am still stressing out on whether I want to take the CA bar. My debate:

I live in DC. Immediately after school I plan to work in DC, but some day I will (90% sure) move back to CA (like 4 years from now) For DC all you need to do is get above a 133 on the MBE. CA's pass rate for my school is above 80% but low nationally.

NY has a much higher pass rate--like 95ish for my school and 90 for all ABA approved schools.

I just don't want to fail the CA bar and get fired, but I do not want to take the bar twice.

I am thinking that I should just man up and do CA and register. I have already cleared the CF for CA.


Opinions?

Just take the California bar. It won't be fun to have to take the bar again in 4 years, especially because you were just worried about a 10% difference in pass rates.

[jarofsoup]

I am still stressing out on whether I want to take the CA bar. My debate:

I live in DC. Immediately after school I plan to work in DC, but some day I will (90% sure) move back to CA (like 4 years from now) For DC all you need to do is get above a 133 on the MBE. CA's pass rate for my school is above 80% but low nationally.

NY has a much higher pass rate--like 95ish for my school and 90 for all ABA approved schools.

I just don't want to fail the CA bar and get fired, but I do not want to take the bar twice.

I am thinking that I should just man up and do CA and register. I have already cleared the CF for CA.


Opinions?

Just take the California bar. It won't be fun to have to take the bar again in 4 years, especially because you were just worried about a 10% difference in pass rates.

That is what I am thinking.

Does anyone know how bar prep works when you are prepping on the East Coast? Like when do you travel back to CA, is that worked into the prep course, etc.?

I think I will be doing Barbri...

[jarofsoup]

Just registered for the CA bar. The NorCal test centers are nearly closed.

[hiima3L]

hi guise.

i'm still looking for a prep course and am now leaning towards themis...good idea?

and fuck the century city hotel is expensive...it's probably decently nice, sure, but expensive.

I'm leaning towards this too but I also haven't decided yet.

nice. i'm in good company. it'd be nice to get a themis group going on tls if i do end up going with them.

Every single person I know who did Themis thought it was great. BarBri is the biggest waste of money I've ever experienced.

I thought their materials were fine (you can buy them all and return them for a refund, I think). But god everything else was so useless. I still rage thinking about how unnecessary and unhelpful it all was. I stopped going to class entirely about 2 weeks in and self-studied. If you have the discipline, I would recommend just getting materials and studying on your own. Specifically, I would recommend BarBri's books (dat CMR was great) and Adaptibar.

[Lasers]

hi guise.

i'm still looking for a prep course and am now leaning towards themis...good idea?

and fuck the century city hotel is expensive...it's probably decently nice, sure, but expensive.

I'm leaning towards this too but I also haven't decided yet.

nice. i'm in good company. it'd be nice to get a themis group going on tls if i do end up going with them.

Every single person I know who did Themis thought it was great. BarBri is the biggest waste of money I've ever experienced.

I thought their materials were fine (you can buy them all and return them for a refund, I think). But god everything else was so useless. I still rage thinking about how unnecessary and unhelpful it all was. I stopped going to class entirely about 2 weeks in and self-studied. If you have the discipline, I would recommend just getting materials and studying on your own. Specifically, I would recommend BarBri's books (dat CMR was great) and Adaptibar.

thanks much.

i ended up signing up for themis ($1400ish) and then buying last year's barbri books for under $400. i'm confident using themis, but i wanted some of the barbri stuff that i've heard people say were helpful, especially the cmr. still saved over $2k doing this rather than barbri (which was an absurd $4200ish).

[EZ as AsDf]

I'm up in this Bee itch. Taking the exam in Ontario... I look forward to following you guys here!

-EZ

[joseandres]

Does anyone know when the C&F application is due?

[EZ as AsDf]

Does anyone know when the C&F application is due?

I called in for you man. I even said, "My name is Jose Andres." The nice woman at the reception desk told me, "There is no due date." However, you definitely want to have everything cleared by November and the application can take up to 6 months... is that right?

[nevdash]

That is what I am thinking.

Does anyone know how bar prep works when you are prepping on the East Coast? Like when do you travel back to CA, is that worked into the prep course, etc.?

I think I will be doing Barbri...

I prepped in Boston last year, and traveled back to CA two weeks before the exam. If you're prepping outside of CA, Barbri "classes" consist of you sitting in a classroom watching a videotaped lecture. It's total flame; I stopped going to the classes after two meetings and just watched the lectures online. A lot of people said that they had to do the live meetings to stay disciplined, but I found that watching the lectures on my own allowed me to go ahead of BarBri's schedule toward the end. Barbri assigns so much shit that you don't need to do (never did a single AMP, for example, and I still passed), so once you cut that stuff out, it's easy to get ahead of schedule.

There's no travel time specifically built into the schedule, but the video lectures end a few weeks before the exam. If you travel back during that period, your assignments are just like, "review [subject], do two [subject] essays." So it's not that hard to skip a day, fly back, and then catch up the next day.

[jarofsoup]

That is what I am thinking.

Does anyone know how bar prep works when you are prepping on the East Coast? Like when do you travel back to CA, is that worked into the prep course, etc.?

I think I will be doing Barbri...

I prepped in Boston last year, and traveled back to CA two weeks before the exam. If you're prepping outside of CA, Barbri "classes" consist of you sitting in a classroom watching a videotaped lecture. It's total flame; I stopped going to the classes after two meetings and just watched the lectures online. A lot of people said that they had to do the live meetings to stay disciplined, but I found that watching the lectures on my own allowed me to go ahead of BarBri's schedule toward the end. Barbri assigns so much shit that you don't need to do (never did a single AMP, for example, and I still passed), so once you cut that stuff out, it's easy to get ahead of schedule.

There's no travel time specifically built into the schedule, but the video lectures end a few weeks before the exam. If you travel back during that period, your assignments are just like, "review [subject], do two [subject] essays." So it's not that hard to skip a day, fly back, and then catch up the next day.

So is the bar exam that hard. Or is it just a mental game.

[84651846190]

hi guise.

i'm still looking for a prep course and am now leaning towards themis...good idea?

and fuck the century city hotel is expensive...it's probably decently nice, sure, but expensive.

dat themis es muy bueno