denied for bar study loan. what to do Forum

[wiseowl]

I'd either do what quakeroats said and get a new credit card through a credit union somewhere that has a low APR and no annual fee, or the more longshot option: if you teach LSAT for Kaplan, you get PMBR steeply discounted or outright free in most markets. Disclaimer: this is what I was told, and I don't know the explicit details.

[quakeroats]

I do, however, have the standard $210k student loan, but wouldn't most law students?

I wish I had a solution to your problem, other than what others are suggesting. I do think it's crazy that no one here is fazed by $210k in student loans being referenced as "standard." It really is a travesty what has happened with tuition at law schools across the country.

IBR and LRAP make loan balances much less important.

as long as you don't mind living like a student for 10 years.

What are you talking about? At 60k a year, IBR sets your yearly payment at 11% of that. Most top schools will reduce that 11% to 0% or something close to that. Even if they didn't, losing 11% a year isn't going to result in "living like a student." You'd still be making more than the U.S. median income. The story is similar if your salary is a lot higher. As long as you qualify--which isn't hard--you'll never end up paying more than 15% of your income in loans.

[gwuorbust]

What are you talking about? At 60k a year, IBR sets your yearly payment at 11% of that. Most top schools will reduce that 11% to 0% or something close to that. Even if they didn't, losing 11% a year isn't going to result in "living like a student." You'd still be making more than the U.S. median income. The story is similar if your salary is a lot higher. As long as you qualify--which isn't hard--you'll never end up paying more than 15% of your income in loans.

First, if you are doing PublicInterest work, 60k is a very generous estimate. plus, if you do get 60k PI then it will probably be in a place with a high COL like NY.

So let's take a more reasonable salary of 50k.

50k
-5k loans
-5k taxes
40k in after tax/loan income
-20k in housing
20k in income after housing
-5k year in car payment/insurance/gas/upkeep
-3k in utilities (water, natural gas, electricity)
12k in disposable income

to me living on 12k is living like a student. then you throw in a kid or two and... ohh fuck.

[quakeroats]

What are you talking about? At 60k a year, IBR sets your yearly payment at 11% of that. Most top schools will reduce that 11% to 0% or something close to that. Even if they didn't, losing 11% a year isn't going to result in "living like a student." You'd still be making more than the U.S. median income. The story is similar if your salary is a lot higher. As long as you qualify--which isn't hard--you'll never end up paying more than 15% of your income in loans.

First, if you are doing PublicInterest work, 60k is a very generous estimate. plus, if you do get 60k PI then it will probably be in a place with a high COL like NY.

So let's take a more reasonable salary of 50k.

50k
-5k loans
-5k taxes
40k in after tax/loan income
-20k in housing
20k in income after housing
-5k year in car payment/insurance/gas/upkeep
-3k in utilities (water, natural gas, electricity)
12k in disposable income

to me living on 12k is living like a student. then you throw in a kid or two and... ohh fuck.

The first 5k goes to 0 as we discussed. Taxes aren't that high. "Living on" doesn't usually exclude things like car payments which are almost by definition living expenses. Adding a kid or two usually adds another income.

[gwuorbust]

The first 5k goes to 0 as we discussed. Taxes aren't that high. "Living on" doesn't usually exclude things like car payments which are almost by definition living expenses. Adding a kid or two usually adds another income.

I'm only talking about the first 10 years.

you are right that I got my total taxes owed wrong. looks like it is more like 8k per year

and yes, you can you do a lot with ~12k in terms of food, entertainment, etc. I'm in full agreement. but there is no denying that things will be tight. and that doesn't even factor in saving for retirement or your kids college education.

[Borhas]

What are you talking about? At 60k a year, IBR sets your yearly payment at 11% of that. Most top schools will reduce that 11% to 0% or something close to that. Even if they didn't, losing 11% a year isn't going to result in "living like a student." You'd still be making more than the U.S. median income. The story is similar if your salary is a lot higher. As long as you qualify--which isn't hard--you'll never end up paying more than 15% of your income in loans.

First, if you are doing PublicInterest work, 60k is a very generous estimate. plus, if you do get 60k PI then it will probably be in a place with a high COL like NY.

So let's take a more reasonable salary of 50k.

50k
-5k loans
-5k taxes
40k in after tax/loan income
-20k in housing
20k in income after housing
-5k year in car payment/insurance/gas/upkeep
-3k in utilities (water, natural gas, electricity)
12k in disposable income

to me living on 12k is living like a student. then you throw in a kid or two and... ohh fuck.

20k for housing?
5k for car payments?
3k for utilities?

that's not living like a student

Here's some perspective:
as as student I pay 13k/year for housing (in fucking San Francisco to boot) that includes, high speed internet, electricity, heat, water, trash, and a maid service once a month.

4k year for groceries/restaurants

0k for car payments (but 1k/year for public transit + taxis)

0k for utilities (included in housing)

As a student I have like 4k in disposable income (after food+rent+utilities)

I have lived as a student living a comparable life like this for almost 6 years. Frankly, I have more luxuries than I deserve. And if I just had 15k more a year just to "dispose of" I think I would come in my pants out of joy.

Hell under your scenario I would probably start saving about 10k year, even before paying off my loans.

[gwuorbust]

Hell under your scenario I would probably start saving about 10k year, even before paying off my loans.

meh, it is just different thoughts on what should be the result after LS brah. I'm definitely not spending 20k on housing..tis closer to about 5k per year and possible 3k next year (and my place is actually pretty nice..). BUT

I feel like considering the amount I am investing into LS, both monetarily and in terms of my life, I should get a very solid ROI.

EDIT: but I live in an old house with two roommates. how much should be spent on housing can be debated -- though financial advisors usually suggest between 25%-33% of your income.

[NancyBotwin]

you are right that I got my total taxes owed wrong. looks like it is more like 8k per year

Uh...sure, in just federal taxes. You're missing state, social security withholding, medicare withholding, any health insurance taken out, etc.

On 52k/year I was only taking home ~3300/month. So out of a 50k salary, you're looking at a take-home of only about 40k, unless you have dependents on your health insurance, in which case it's a bunch less.

[quakeroats]

you are right that I got my total taxes owed wrong. looks like it is more like 8k per year

Uh...sure, in just federal taxes. You're missing state, social security withholding, medicare withholding, any health insurance taken out, etc.

On 52k/year I was only taking home ~3300/month. So out of a 50k salary, you're looking at a take-home of only about 40k, unless you have dependents on your health insurance, in which case it's a bunch less.

You could always move to a state with a low cost of living and no state income taxes.

BTW, if you're making 50k and are paying 8k in taxes you've done something wrong. I made more than that last year and paid far less in federal income taxes without doing anything fancy.

[NancyBotwin]

BTW, if you're making 50k and are paying 8k in taxes you've done something wrong. I made more than that last year and paid far less in federal income taxes without doing anything fancy.

Are you talking about your actual total tax when you filed taxes, or what was withheld? You can obviously change your withholding to get more or less take-home over the year, but depending on your deductions, you may still pay that much.

[Borhas]

Hell under your scenario I would probably start saving about 10k year, even before paying off my loans.

meh, it is just different thoughts on what should be the result after LS brah. I'm definitely not spending 20k on housing..tis closer to about 5k per year and possible 3k next year (and my place is actually pretty nice..). BUT

I feel like considering the amount I am investing into LS, both monetarily and in terms of my life, I should get a very solid ROI.

EDIT: but I live in an old house with two roommates. how much should be spent on housing can be debated -- though financial advisors usually suggest between 25%-33% of your income.

Public interest? Your major ROI is a job that doesn't suck and huge loan forgiveness after 10 years

[shepdawg]

If you have a 720, which I doubt if you only have one card with a $1000 limit, then you can get approved for a $30k credit card today.

[quakeroats]

If you have a 720, which I doubt if you only have one card with a $1000 limit, then you can get approved for a $30k credit card today.

Some credit scores are given on a scale with higher maximum than 850. I'm betting that's the issue.

[FlanAl]

I thought I'd necro this thread to see if anyone else has come across this problem. Just got denied from one company but also applied to another. I mostly need the money for cost of living and re-location costs.

[mephistopheles]

if your cc limit is 1000, either your credit blows dick and i have no sympathy, or you can get another card pretty quickly

[mountaintime]

Call your CC company and ask for them to raise your limit. If they won't help you out, just apply for another CC.

[mountaintime]

If you have a 720, which I doubt if you only have one card with a $1000 limit, then you can get approved for a $30k credit card today.

it could simply be a card OP has held for a long time. Many cards don't automatically increase your limit anymore--they ask for you to ask them to raise it.

[FlanAl]

Is it really that easy to get accepted for a credit card while I'm still a student with no income and 200k in debt? I got denied when I tried to get another card during 1L (I'm basically a K-JD but with a year of service industry in between), doesn't getting denied negatively impact your credit score? I've had a card from my bank with a 1K limit since before 1L. I know people suggested getting just a straight up loan from a bank, if I go in and explain that I have start date for my job but just need a couple of grand to get me through these lean months will that work?

Thanks!

[jtx86]

Honestly, based on your credit score, I think you should apply for another credit card (ideally one with a higher credit limit) and try to get 0% APR financing for a year. As long as you pass the bar and get a job within a year, that should hold you over.

[mephistopheles]

Is it really that easy to get accepted for a credit card while I'm still a student with no income and 200k in debt? I got denied when I tried to get another card during 1L (I'm basically a K-JD but with a year of service industry in between), doesn't getting denied negatively impact your credit score? I've had a card from my bank with a 1K limit since before 1L. I know people suggested getting just a straight up loan from a bank, if I go in and explain that I have start date for my job but just need a couple of grand to get me through these lean months will that work?

Thanks!

getting denied doesn't hurt your score. although, having checks run due to applications can have a small negative tick.

and if you have 8 months to 1 year of solid payment history, your cards are all at around 10% used, and you made a little money at some point recently, you should be able to get a better card.

[hiima3L]

I would strongly suggest not paying for a bar prep class. I found Barbri to be totally useless. The materials, which you can buy for a few hundred (and I think return for a full refund, no questions asked), were all I needed to pass.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I would strongly suggest not paying for a bar prep class. I found Barbri to be totally useless. The materials, which you can buy for a few hundred (and I think return for a full refund, no questions asked), were all I needed to pass.

Can you actually buy the materials separate from the course? I don't think you can - that's why you pay a huge deposit, to encourage people to return them to Barbri rather than sell them. (I mean, you can buy them used, of course, but I'm not sure where the full refund/no questions asked part comes in - I'd be surprised if random bar-takers selling their materials would offer a refund.)

I agree that you don't need the course to pass, though. (I needed to sit through the lectures so it was fine, but it's not necessary.)

[quakeroats]

I would strongly suggest not paying for a bar prep class. I found Barbri to be totally useless. The materials, which you can buy for a few hundred (and I think return for a full refund, no questions asked), were all I needed to pass.

You don't need the books or the course, what you need (at least for NY) is the notes from the classes which should be fairly easy to get. Just make sure they're actually filled in.

[FlanAl]

Is it really that easy to get accepted for a credit card while I'm still a student with no income and 200k in debt? I got denied when I tried to get another card during 1L (I'm basically a K-JD but with a year of service industry in between), doesn't getting denied negatively impact your credit score? I've had a card from my bank with a 1K limit since before 1L. I know people suggested getting just a straight up loan from a bank, if I go in and explain that I have start date for my job but just need a couple of grand to get me through these lean months will that work?

Thanks!

getting denied doesn't hurt your score. although, having checks run due to applications can have a small negative tick.

and if you have 8 months to 1 year of solid payment history, your cards are all at around 10% used, and you made a little money at some point recently, you should be able to get a better card.

Most recent would be work study summer 2013, but when they ask for current salary I put $0.

[FlanAl]

I would strongly suggest not paying for a bar prep class. I found Barbri to be totally useless. The materials, which you can buy for a few hundred (and I think return for a full refund, no questions asked), were all I needed to pass.

You don't need the books or the course, what you need (at least for NY) is the notes from the classes which should be fairly easy to get. Just make sure they're actually filled in.

Not worried so much about the bar prep course (i'm a rep for one of the companies) but more worried about eating/paying a deposit on a new apartment, moving etc. during the downtime between graduation and first paycheck. Job starts early september, I'd really only need a couple of grand. I've got a free place to stay for summer but gotta eat and have money to re-locate to the job.