Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[rambleon65]

One PSA:

I've never been a fan of group studies or studying with others. However, the other day, my roommate (also studying for same bar) and I were both mentioning how burnt out we felt. He had happened to buy flash cards for the exam. So we grabbed a bottle of whiskey, casually sipped, and went through a stack of cards.

This really boosted my memory of that subject because there's something about having to talk about it that makes it easier to remember. Also a good way to blow off steam while still kind of studying. Just thought i'd throw it out there.

[hogfan1991]

One PSA:

I've never been a fan of group studies or studying with others. However, the other day, my roommate (also studying for same bar) and I were both mentioning how burnt out we felt. He had happened to buy flash cards for the exam. So we grabbed a bottle of whiskey, casually sipped, and went through a stack of cards.

This really boosted my memory of that subject because there's something about having to talk about it that makes it easier to remember. Also a good way to blow off steam while still kind of studying. Just thought i'd throw it out there.

I support this! I am missing my study groups from law school and the quizzing we would do. Also, I miss having a wall full of dry-erase boards to just start writing rule statements out. I always found that effective. Best of Luck all!

10 DAYS!!!

[blueapple]

Finally did Con Law set 6. Sort of wish I had skipped it... damn

[kishy]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

I got a 67 in that set, though I had a higher number of "dumb mistake" errors than I did in others - I'm averaging about 70 now. Mine are more splits between not knowing the law and just 'hard questions', so I need to get my nose back in the books to bring my scores up more.

68% that set. Last few sets averaging high 60s to low/mid 70s. not sure if thats OK or not? My rep said for MA 70% is really good. I hope so. I find that I am reducing my amount of stupid errors by slowing down and really reading the prompt. There are definitely still a lot of qs where I just didnt know the law - its crazy. After so many questions theres still so many random details I dont know!

I took Michigan in Feb and passed. Did about 2100 m/c questions and my overall practice set percentage was in the low 60s. My simulateds were both at 69. Completed 96% of the course. When the exam was only a couple weeks away, I was only scoring in the high 50s on the practice sets and I said, "Fuck it". Too many of those questions were those crazy NCBE disclaimer ones. But I ended up with a 144 on the MBE- hell, it was more than I needed, and I was thrilled. I think anybody scoring in the high 60s/ low70s is doing fantastic! I think that we are all better positioned to pass than we think we are. We've got this!!

[bobbypin]

I took Michigan in Feb and passed. Did about 2100 m/c questions and my overall practice set percentage was in the low 60s. My simulateds were both at 69. Completed 96% of the course. When the exam was only a couple weeks away, I was only scoring in the high 50s on the practice sets and I said, "Fuck it". Too many of those questions were those crazy NCBE disclaimer ones. But I ended up with a 144 on the MBE- hell, it was more than I needed, and I was thrilled. I think anybody scoring in the high 60s/ low70s is doing fantastic! I think that we are all better positioned to pass than we think we are. We've got this!!

How were you doing on essays and PTs?

[Rahviveh]

One PSA:

I've never been a fan of group studies or studying with others. However, the other day, my roommate (also studying for same bar) and I were both mentioning how burnt out we felt. He had happened to buy flash cards for the exam. So we grabbed a bottle of whiskey, casually sipped, and went through a stack of cards.

This really boosted my memory of that subject because there's something about having to talk about it that makes it easier to remember. Also a good way to blow off steam while still kind of studying. Just thought i'd throw it out there.

I support this! I am missing my study groups from law school and the quizzing we would do. Also, I miss having a wall full of dry-erase boards to just start writing rule statements out. I always found that effective. Best of Luck all!

10 DAYS!!!

Tiny chat?

[Rahviveh]

Need help with this one from Property PQ set #5:

[+] Spoiler

A wealthy individual loaned money to a friend to facilitate the purchase of a home. The friend executed a promissory note, payable to the lender, in the amount of the loan plus interest and gave the lender a mortgage on the home as security for repayment of the loan. Subsequently the friend sold the home to an unrelated third party. The documents associated with this sale made no mention of the third party’s liability with respect to the loan. Later, when the value of the home exceeded the outstanding obligation on the note, the lender released her mortgage interest in the home. Shortly thereafter, the loan fell into default. The third party is the current record owner of the home.

Can the lender successfully maintain an action against the friend for repayment of the loan?

Why does this release the friend entirely from the loan liability, and not just the liability w/r/t enforcement on the mortgage? Shouldn't the friend still have to pay back the loan, even if the lender can't use the mortgage to enforce it?

No. Because the lender released her mortgage interest. The note follows the mortgage. Which means that they are transferred together.

Mortgage always follows the note. Note doesn't always follow the mortgage - depends on jurisdiction

[Rahviveh]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

[unidentifiable]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

I broke it up into chunks:

Formation
Directors
Shareholders
Huge Changes in Corporation
LLCs

The rules are shit. They're fucked. But it sort of helped for me to really break it down and focus on those key things.

[1down1togo]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

I don't know what corporations is like for your state. But for me, I've just been drilling the video hand out- just reading it slowly, again and again- for comprehension. I still don't know all the little details (impossible to learn them!) but I feel like I have enough of a big picture to B.S. and or make educated guesses about what the rules are. Might be worth a look.

Then again, maybe the lecture for your state are trash.

[ndp1234]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

If this is because of that shit corporations essay about priority of amendments I don't think that question is normal. That question was really ridiculous and out there. Most likely we'll get a duty question or a question on notice.

[Rahviveh]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

If this is because of that shit corporations essay about priority of amendments I don't think that question is normal. That question was really ridiculous and out there. Most likely we'll get a duty question or a question on notice.

The handouts are great for learning the MeE topics and far superior to,the poorly written FROS. But the stuff in that essay wasn't in the handout.

[bsktbll28082]

I took Michigan in Feb and passed. Did about 2100 m/c questions and my overall practice set percentage was in the low 60s. My simulateds were both at 69. Completed 96% of the course. When the exam was only a couple weeks away, I was only scoring in the high 50s on the practice sets and I said, "Fuck it". Too many of those questions were those crazy NCBE disclaimer ones. But I ended up with a 144 on the MBE- hell, it was more than I needed, and I was thrilled. I think anybody scoring in the high 60s/ low70s is doing fantastic! I think that we are all better positioned to pass than we think we are. We've got this!!

Currently at 60% and worried. I've done 1600 MC questions. Also, yes, way too many NCBE disclaimers.

[ultimolugar]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

I got a 67 in that set, though I had a higher number of "dumb mistake" errors than I did in others - I'm averaging about 70 now. Mine are more splits between not knowing the law and just 'hard questions', so I need to get my nose back in the books to bring my scores up more.

68% that set. Last few sets averaging high 60s to low/mid 70s. not sure if thats OK or not? My rep said for MA 70% is really good. I hope so. I find that I am reducing my amount of stupid errors by slowing down and really reading the prompt. There are definitely still a lot of qs where I just didnt know the law - its crazy. After so many questions theres still so many random details I dont know!

I took Michigan in Feb and passed. Did about 2100 m/c questions and my overall practice set percentage was in the low 60s. My simulateds were both at 69. Completed 96% of the course. When the exam was only a couple weeks away, I was only scoring in the high 50s on the practice sets and I said, "Fuck it". Too many of those questions were those crazy NCBE disclaimer ones. But I ended up with a 144 on the MBE- hell, it was more than I needed, and I was thrilled. I think anybody scoring in the high 60s/ low70s is doing fantastic! I think that we are all better positioned to pass than we think we are. We've got this!!

Was this 144 scaled?

[Rahviveh]

What happens when you violate knock and announce. Just a spanking?

[Chardee_MacDennis]

What happens when you violate knock and announce. Just a spanking?

A stern rebuke, apparently

[hirkaismyname]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure sale (since the sale eliminated all the JR interests)?

Anyone have an idea?

It seems unfair to have a property be foreclosed upon by a SR interest right after you buy in a foreclosure sale.
-there has to be some equitable remedy for that person.

Also, can someone explain the concept of note following mortgage vs. mortgage following note?

My understanding is that if a mortgage is assumed, the note holder is still personally liable any deficiency not making the creditor whole after a FC sale.

What I don't understand is that if a mortgage interest is released by a bank, why that bank can pursue its claim against the note holder. It is like a deck of cards, where the note is just a placeholder, and once the mortgage amount is satisfied (FMV of property exceed amount owed) then the release of the mortgage dissolves the placeholder (note)?

[Sheeit]

Found this one in PQ set 9 listed under civ pro. Seems more like a corporations question.

[+] Spoiler

A shareholder brought a derivative action in federal district court on behalf of a closely-held corporation. At the time that the action was filed, the corporation had a total of nine shareholders. The complaint alleged that two of the three members of the board of directors had colluded to breach their duty of loyalty by usurping a corporate business opportunity prior to the shareholder’s purchase of her shares. The complaint also alleged that a demand to take corrective action had not been made upon the board since such a demand would have been futile. The shareholder did not plead that she suffered special harm as a shareholder as a consequence of the directors’ collusion.

Of the following, which is a ground on which the court may dismiss the complaint for failure to state a claim upon which relief may be granted?
AThe class of shareholders is not so numerous that joinder of all shareholders is impracticable.
BThe shareholder failed to make a demand upon the board of directors to take corrective action.
CThe shareholder did not own stock in the corporation at the time of the alleged wrong.
DThe shareholder did not plead that she suffered special harm as shareholder.
SUBMIT ANSWER

Awesome! That's the best choice!

The answer you selected is the best choice in this situation.

Answer choice C is correct. A shareholder who brings a derivative action on behalf of a corporation must have owned stock in the corporation at the time of the wrong. Otherwise, the shareholder cannot pursue such an action. Here, the facts state that the board members allegedly usurped a corporate business opportunity prior to the shareholder’s purchase of her shares. Because the shareholder did not own any shares at the time of the alleged wrong, the complaint should be dismissed. Answer choice A is incorrect. Since this is a derivative action brought to assert the rights of the corporation, the shareholder need not satisfy the requirement for a class action that joinder of all members of the class be impracticable because they are too numerous. Answer choice B is incorrect. A shareholder is generally required to plead with particularity that the shareholder has made a demand upon the board of directors that the board take corrective action. In the absence of a demand, however, the shareholder may state reasons why such a demand was not made. When, as is the case here, a majority of the directors is alleged to have participated in the wrongdoing, the shareholder may assert the futility of such a demand. Answer choice D is incorrect. Because this is a derivative action brought on the corporation’s behalf, the shareholder need not establish that she has suffered harm as a consequence of the wrongdoing.

[ndp1234]

Optional Practice Civ Pro Set 6 was a conglomerate of the most obscure federal rules that Themis could find.

[Rahviveh]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure sale (since the sale eliminated all the JR interests)?

Anyone have an idea?

It seems unfair to have a property be foreclosed upon by a SR interest right after you buy in a foreclosure sale.
-there has to be some equitable remedy for that person.

Also, can someone explain the concept of note following mortgage vs. mortgage following note?

My understanding is that if a mortgage is assumed, the note holder is still personally liable any deficiency not making the creditor whole after a FC sale.

What I don't understand is that if a mortgage interest is released by a bank, why that bank can pursue its claim against the note holder. It is like a deck of cards, where the note is just a placeholder, and once the mortgage amount is satisfied (FMV of property exceed amount owed) then the release of the mortgage dissolves the placeholder (note)?

You are overthinking this shit. Go study for civpro. You will pick up more points than analyzing the reasoning behind mortgage law.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Found this one in PQ set 9 listed under civ pro. Seems more like a corporations question.

[+] Spoiler

A shareholder brought a derivative action in federal district court on behalf of a closely-held corporation. At the time that the action was filed, the corporation had a total of nine shareholders. The complaint alleged that two of the three members of the board of directors had colluded to breach their duty of loyalty by usurping a corporate business opportunity prior to the shareholder’s purchase of her shares. The complaint also alleged that a demand to take corrective action had not been made upon the board since such a demand would have been futile. The shareholder did not plead that she suffered special harm as a shareholder as a consequence of the directors’ collusion.

Of the following, which is a ground on which the court may dismiss the complaint for failure to state a claim upon which relief may be granted?
AThe class of shareholders is not so numerous that joinder of all shareholders is impracticable.
BThe shareholder failed to make a demand upon the board of directors to take corrective action.
CThe shareholder did not own stock in the corporation at the time of the alleged wrong.
DThe shareholder did not plead that she suffered special harm as shareholder.
SUBMIT ANSWER

Awesome! That's the best choice!

The answer you selected is the best choice in this situation.

Answer choice C is correct. A shareholder who brings a derivative action on behalf of a corporation must have owned stock in the corporation at the time of the wrong. Otherwise, the shareholder cannot pursue such an action. Here, the facts state that the board members allegedly usurped a corporate business opportunity prior to the shareholder’s purchase of her shares. Because the shareholder did not own any shares at the time of the alleged wrong, the complaint should be dismissed. Answer choice A is incorrect. Since this is a derivative action brought to assert the rights of the corporation, the shareholder need not satisfy the requirement for a class action that joinder of all members of the class be impracticable because they are too numerous. Answer choice B is incorrect. A shareholder is generally required to plead with particularity that the shareholder has made a demand upon the board of directors that the board take corrective action. In the absence of a demand, however, the shareholder may state reasons why such a demand was not made. When, as is the case here, a majority of the directors is alleged to have participated in the wrongdoing, the shareholder may assert the futility of such a demand. Answer choice D is incorrect. Because this is a derivative action brought on the corporation’s behalf, the shareholder need not establish that she has suffered harm as a consequence of the wrongdoing.

It kind of is, but it was covered in the civ pro outline.

[1down1togo]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure sale (since the sale eliminated all the JR interests)?

Anyone have an idea?

It seems unfair to have a property be foreclosed upon by a SR interest right after you buy in a foreclosure sale.
-there has to be some equitable remedy for that person.

Also, can someone explain the concept of note following mortgage vs. mortgage following note?

My understanding is that if a mortgage is assumed, the note holder is still personally liable any deficiency not making the creditor whole after a FC sale.

What I don't understand is that if a mortgage interest is released by a bank, why that bank can pursue its claim against the note holder. It is like a deck of cards, where the note is just a placeholder, and once the mortgage amount is satisfied (FMV of property exceed amount owed) then the release of the mortgage dissolves the placeholder (note)?

You are overthinking this shit. Go study for civpro. You will pick up more points than analyzing the reasoning behind mortgage law.

I'm going to have to agree with Rahviveh. I went ahead and highlighted the things you do not need to worry about. Understanding the logic is good in that it helps you memorize. But if you already know what the result/law is, who cares if it doesn't make sense to you.

[minimumcontacts]

Things that happen when you do flex study too much: Themis tells you to do 3 essays and review 7 subjects, which includes reviewing contracts twice.

[rambleon65]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure sale (since the sale eliminated all the JR interests)?

Anyone have an idea?

It seems unfair to have a property be foreclosed upon by a SR interest right after you buy in a foreclosure sale.
-there has to be some equitable remedy for that person.

Also, can someone explain the concept of note following mortgage vs. mortgage following note?

My understanding is that if a mortgage is assumed, the note holder is still personally liable any deficiency not making the creditor whole after a FC sale.

What I don't understand is that if a mortgage interest is released by a bank, why that bank can pursue its claim against the note holder. It is like a deck of cards, where the note is just a placeholder, and once the mortgage amount is satisfied (FMV of property exceed amount owed) then the release of the mortgage dissolves the placeholder (note)?

You are overthinking this shit. Go study for civpro. You will pick up more points than analyzing the reasoning behind mortgage law.

I'm going to have to agree with Rahviveh. I went ahead and highlighted the things you do not need to worry about. Understanding the logic is good in that it helps you memorize. But if you already know what the result/law is, who cares if it doesn't make sense to you.

They don't have a remedy; you bought it w/ the senior lien, your risk. In real life, you pay cents on the dollar if you want to buy something w/ a senior lien on it (though categorically, this just doesn't happen very often). Most of the time it's people w/ a lot of cash who will just buy it from the senior lienholder if it ever was getting foreclosed. Moreover, that senior lien holder (unless oblivious or a small time lender) likely included a due on sale clause that accelerates the loan because they want to get paid.

[Fivedham]

Anybody else dealing with an eye twitch? My left eye twitches like crazy lately. I can't wait for this BS to be over.