Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Has anyone else noticed the later individual-topic PQ sets getting easier? I know we've been reviewing constantly and are more familiar with structure, patterns, etc..., but these questions seem a bit too easy.

[1down1togo]

Unpopular opinion: I kinda hope we get a sec trans essay.

I'm with you on this one. Took ST my last semester of law school. It's still fresh, and I have been crushing the ST essays. But in my jdx it doesn't look like it is offered that often.

That is absolutely the way to do it! When I passed my first bar in 2013, I took a secured transactions class my 3L year. I did little to no bar prep for secured trans, and then crushed the bar essay question.

Too bad that, 3 years later, I've now forgotten it all :**(

[blach0987]

I've never used this feature to hide a question I want to ask about so if I did it incorrectly, please ignore below, its a crim pro question!!

[+] Spoiler

Question 413

A mechanic and his former employee were indicted for automobile theft. Unbeknownst to the mechanic, the former employee confessed to the crime and implicated his employer. In exchange for favorable treatment by the prosecutor, the former employee agreed to cooperate in the prosecution of the mechanic. The police were also investigating the mechanic for an alleged plan to kill another person who was to serve as a witness for the state at the mechanic's trial. The mechanic sought a meeting with the former employee. Upon learning of the proposed meeting, the police wired the former employee in order to record the conversation between the mechanic and the former employee. The police directed the former employee to encourage the mechanic to talk about his criminal activity. At the meeting the mechanic made incriminating statements about stealing automobiles. The mechanic's lawyer filed a pretrial motion to suppress these statements on the grounds that his client's right to counsel was violated.

Should the court grant this motion?

Answers:

You Selected: No, because the statements were obtained by police during an investigation of a possible crime, a plan to murder a witness, for which the right to counsel had not attached.
No, because the mechanic initiated the meeting with his former employee.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the police knowingly used the former employee to elicit incriminating statements from the mechanic about the charged crime.
Yes, because the police used a secret agent to obtain the incriminating statements.
Rationale:

Answer choice C is correct. Since the right to counsel attaches upon the initiation of formal proceedings against the accused, such as indictment, the police cannot seek to elicit incriminating statements from the accused about the crime without the presence of the accused's lawyer unless the accused waives his right to counsel. Seeking such information through a private person who acts as an agent of the police is also prohibited. Answer choice A is incorrect because the fact that the police were also investigating the accused in regard to an uncharged crime for which the right to counsel had not attached does not excuse or justify the police action in seeking to elicit incriminating statements about the charged crime. Answer choice B is incorrect because, even though the accused initiated contact with an unknown police informant, the accused does not waive his right to counsel simply by initiating such contact since the accused is not aware that the informant is acting on behalf of the police. Answer choice D is incorrect because the police are not prohibited from obtaining incriminating statements from the accused through the use of a secret agent so long as the agent does not actively solicit incriminating information from the accused.

So the way to think of this question is that IF mechanic made comments about the plan to kill another person, because the right to counsel had not attached yet, they can use it. HOWEVER, because the comments were about the theft, it cannot be used? Thanks in advance for your help!

[WinSome]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

[AlanShore]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

I didnt but a friend did and he is saying the same. Congrats in advance on making it to 100!

[rambleon65]

I've never used this feature to hide a question I want to ask about so if I did it incorrectly, please ignore below, its a crim pro question!!

[+] Spoiler

Question 413

A mechanic and his former employee were indicted for automobile theft. Unbeknownst to the mechanic, the former employee confessed to the crime and implicated his employer. In exchange for favorable treatment by the prosecutor, the former employee agreed to cooperate in the prosecution of the mechanic. The police were also investigating the mechanic for an alleged plan to kill another person who was to serve as a witness for the state at the mechanic's trial. The mechanic sought a meeting with the former employee. Upon learning of the proposed meeting, the police wired the former employee in order to record the conversation between the mechanic and the former employee. The police directed the former employee to encourage the mechanic to talk about his criminal activity. At the meeting the mechanic made incriminating statements about stealing automobiles. The mechanic's lawyer filed a pretrial motion to suppress these statements on the grounds that his client's right to counsel was violated.

Should the court grant this motion?

Answers:

You Selected: No, because the statements were obtained by police during an investigation of a possible crime, a plan to murder a witness, for which the right to counsel had not attached.
No, because the mechanic initiated the meeting with his former employee.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the police knowingly used the former employee to elicit incriminating statements from the mechanic about the charged crime.
Yes, because the police used a secret agent to obtain the incriminating statements.
Rationale:

Answer choice C is correct. Since the right to counsel attaches upon the initiation of formal proceedings against the accused, such as indictment, the police cannot seek to elicit incriminating statements from the accused about the crime without the presence of the accused's lawyer unless the accused waives his right to counsel. Seeking such information through a private person who acts as an agent of the police is also prohibited. Answer choice A is incorrect because the fact that the police were also investigating the accused in regard to an uncharged crime for which the right to counsel had not attached does not excuse or justify the police action in seeking to elicit incriminating statements about the charged crime. Answer choice B is incorrect because, even though the accused initiated contact with an unknown police informant, the accused does not waive his right to counsel simply by initiating such contact since the accused is not aware that the informant is acting on behalf of the police. Answer choice D is incorrect because the police are not prohibited from obtaining incriminating statements from the accused through the use of a secret agent so long as the agent does not actively solicit incriminating information from the accused.

So the way to think of this question is that IF mechanic made comments about the plan to kill another person, because the right to counsel had not attached yet, they can use it. HOWEVER, because the comments were about the theft, it cannot be used? Thanks in advance for your help!

Yup. Sixth Amendment rights are offense-specific and therefore wouldn't apply to a crime that the defendant wasn't charged in. Here, the incriminating statements made (and illicit by the police) were regarding a crime that the defendant was already indicted in without a waiver of 6th amendment assistance of counsel.

[unidentifiable]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

Yep. I did this. Not at 100% yep, but did everything they said.

I still feel a little overwhelmed at times. I feel personally obligated to review the subject(s) it assigns for at least 2-3 hours, depending on my comfort level with it. On top of the PQ sets and essay outlines, it can be a drag. But, then again, my brain cant seem to go longer than 8 hours in a day.

I'm feeling sort of confident, but...just not good enough. never will be good enough. ever.

[WinSome]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

I didnt but a friend did and he is saying the same. Congrats in advance on making it to 100!

Not there yet. Still around 86%, but I'll be 100% before the bar. I think 100% is probably overkill if anyone is wondering, but I don't regret going for it at all.

[1down1togo]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

I didnt but a friend did and he is saying the same. Congrats in advance on making it to 100!

Not there yet. Still around 86%, but I'll be 100% before the bar. I think 100% is probably overkill if anyone is wondering, but I don't regret going for it at all.

In my state, you need to get to 100% to get a 90% change of passing... so for my state, I don't think its overkill. That being said, I feel like there is less assigned work in these last few weeks (I'm currently 93%) but I've been reviewing all the essay topics in spare time a lot more- so it works out the same for me.

[kishy]

Has anyone else noticed the later individual-topic PQ sets getting easier? I know we've been reviewing constantly and are more familiar with structure, patterns, etc..., but these questions seem a bit too easy.

I just did the additional 100 questions in the back of the practice exam book, not because I'm done with the practice sets - far from it, I've only done 9- but because I wanted more practice using paper and pencil since that's how we'll really be taking the exam. I thought those questions were far easier than my last couple practice sets, but I still only got a 72% Whatever. I'm over it, and I just want to get this thing done!

[kishy]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

I didnt but a friend did and he is saying the same. Congrats in advance on making it to 100!

Not there yet. Still around 86%, but I'll be 100% before the bar. I think 100% is probably overkill if anyone is wondering, but I don't regret going for it at all.

In my state, you need to get to 100% to get a 90% change of passing... so for my state, I don't think its overkill. That being said, I feel like there is less assigned work in these last few weeks (I'm currently 93%) but I've been reviewing all the essay topics in spare time a lot more- so it works out the same for me.

What state?

[kishy]

Got totally themed today by that graded Florida Con Law essay. WTF? 87% completion and I feel so unprepared.

How much detail are you learning for Florida crim law? All the degrees of misdemeanors, e.g.? All the different criteria for trying juveniles as adults?

[1down1togo]

Did anyone else here pretty much follow the recommended schedule for 100% completion to a T? I did and I almost feel like I have less work now than when the lectures were going on. It's basically just a 50 question MBE set, a couple of essays, and a topic or two to review every day. Not to sound cocky, but I'm feeling pretty good if I can just make some outlines on some state specific subjects for review.

I didnt but a friend did and he is saying the same. Congrats in advance on making it to 100!

Not there yet. Still around 86%, but I'll be 100% before the bar. I think 100% is probably overkill if anyone is wondering, but I don't regret going for it at all.

In my state, you need to get to 100% to get a 90% change of passing... so for my state, I don't think its overkill. That being said, I feel like there is less assigned work in these last few weeks (I'm currently 93%) but I've been reviewing all the essay topics in spare time a lot more- so it works out the same for me.

What state?

Virginia

[BigZuck]

If my TLS legacy is bad Themis puns then I'm more than ok with that.

[rambleon65]

If my TLS legacy is bad Themis puns then I'm more than ok with that.

I think everyone here would be just fine w/ that as well.

[Rahviveh]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

[1down1togo]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

I've never broke it down like that, but honestly, I'm averaging 74ish% in the mixed sets, and that is probably in the neighborhood of where I am. I've been reducing the # of ones I got wrong due to not reading the prompt. We get a minute and 40 second for each question- and most can easily be done in less than a minute. For me, I've noticed its real important to really read the question. A lot of times ill start reading it, think i know what the issue is, and then hurriedly go to the answer- only to subsequently realize it was a trick and the issue was soemthing else.

I'm more focused on trying to carefully read and analyze right now than I am memorize, because I feel like my brain can barely contain all the black letter law it has right now.

[Fivedham]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

I got a 71 in that set. I went over my answers and saw I basically got like 10 wrong because I didn't know the black letter law, another 10 because I was split between two and chose the "less good" right answer, and a further 9 because I wavered. I'm noticing a pattern where I overthink an question, select a correct answer, then go back and choose a wrong one. Hence why I'm doing better in test mode, because I'm going through the questions way faster.

I'm going between 71 and 80 in the mixed sets, which seems about right. The questions that trip me up the most are the ones that ask something like, "What's Bob's least helpful defense?" or where the answer turns on something subjective like reasonableness/foreseeability.

[TLSModBot]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

I got a 67 in that set, though I had a higher number of "dumb mistake" errors than I did in others - I'm averaging about 70 now. Mine are more splits between not knowing the law and just 'hard questions', so I need to get my nose back in the books to bring my scores up more.

[AlanShore]

I just did question set 9 which has 100 questions. Got 75 right.

I broke down my wrong answers. 14/25 were from simply not knowing the black letter law. 4 questions were wrong just due to not reading the prompt carefully or some other careless mistake. 7 wrong due to just being "hard" imo. Where is everyone else at?

I got a 67 in that set, though I had a higher number of "dumb mistake" errors than I did in others - I'm averaging about 70 now. Mine are more splits between not knowing the law and just 'hard questions', so I need to get my nose back in the books to bring my scores up more.

68% that set. Last few sets averaging high 60s to low/mid 70s. not sure if thats OK or not? My rep said for MA 70% is really good. I hope so. I find that I am reducing my amount of stupid errors by slowing down and really reading the prompt. There are definitely still a lot of qs where I just didnt know the law - its crazy. After so many questions theres still so many random details I dont know!

[hirkaismyname]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure (since it's not eliminated like JR interests)?

----


Weird Connection my brain made today:

Civ Pro: a 3PD, for an intervention as of right, cannot asset defenses that are "personal" to the original D, but can assert their own defenses (meaning they cannot assert a defense on behalf of the D - I think they're referring to PJ/Venue/SVC)

Property: a holder in due course takes a mortgage note free of any personal defenses the mortgagor could have raised against the m-gee (consideration/fraud) --- but he still can use "real defenses" (duress/fraud/incapacity etc.)
-- to be a holder of DC need a nego note, signed by m-gee, delivered, and GF + value paid.

Has anyone else made this connection yet? Or is my brain basically sticking a middle finger at me for overloading it?

[ndp1234]

Question about Contracts essay 2245 (about the knives):

[+] Spoiler

Why is the chef considered a merchant? He is not in business of buying and selling knives?

[Sheeit]

Anyone else lack motivation to do anything today? This is the worst.

[Near]

Need help with this one from Property PQ set #5:

[+] Spoiler

A wealthy individual loaned money to a friend to facilitate the purchase of a home. The friend executed a promissory note, payable to the lender, in the amount of the loan plus interest and gave the lender a mortgage on the home as security for repayment of the loan. Subsequently the friend sold the home to an unrelated third party. The documents associated with this sale made no mention of the third party’s liability with respect to the loan. Later, when the value of the home exceeded the outstanding obligation on the note, the lender released her mortgage interest in the home. Shortly thereafter, the loan fell into default. The third party is the current record owner of the home.

Can the lender successfully maintain an action against the friend for repayment of the loan?

Why does this release the friend entirely from the loan liability, and not just the liability w/r/t enforcement on the mortgage? Shouldn't the friend still have to pay back the loan, even if the lender can't use the mortgage to enforce it?

[bobbypin]

Question about Contracts essay 2245 (about the knives):

[+] Spoiler

Why is the chef considered a merchant? He is not in business of buying and selling knives?

I had the same question when I completed that essay. Messaged Themis about it. Never got a reasonable answer.