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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Lasers » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:29 am

Carryon wrote:
2oldfts wrote:
DildaMan wrote:
adonai wrote:By the grace of God, I passed. Considering how I was doing in practice, I was not supposed to pass, and I feel devastated for all of you who did not. This exam is BS and is really a crapshoot.

Just for future test takers, you can still miss a lot and still be successful. Just from what I know, here are the errors I made on the exam. I did not do the CP portion of the trusts/CP question (essentially leaving half the essay blank), did not do a trusts analysis (only did duties), missed major issues (2-3) in the remedies question, missed impeachment in crim pro, and did not even state one CA distinction in the PR question. I ran out of time on the first PT and had to hurry a conclusion.

I did not break 100 in my simulated MBE for barbri. During the self-study period after barbri, I did an additional 1500 real MBEs and was barely hitting 65% correct. On test day, I had to bubble straight B's on ~10 MBE questions because I ran out of time. On the PM MBE section, I educated guessed on more than half because I was running out of time. By what has been discussed and what we know about grading and looking at baressays.com essays, I fully expected to fail. Good luck to those who will be retaking this. You have more strength and willpower than I ever will.
FWIW I had a ton of B's in the PM MBE section.
yup, same here pretty much. Did not do a trust analysis, stated no California distinctions in PR essay, and missed 3 major issues in Evidence. Scores of 55, 60, 60, 60, 60 60 on the essays and 65 on both PTs would yield the 615 passing writing score. I'm guessing I got something equal to that
I wonder if the pts did me in. I did not study them as much as the essays.
i didn't do a single PT in prepping for the bar and i felt i really messed up the first PT about glampers or whatever the fuck that was about.

luckily, i think i killed the PT2, torts, crimpro, evidence and remedies essays to give me the pass.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by jarofsoup » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:23 am

How long does it take to get the score report?

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Carryon » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:04 pm

jarofsoup wrote:How long does it take to get the score report?
I think Monday or Tuesday for just scores, your answers about 4weeks.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Cyberpirate » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:42 pm

Unfortunately, I did not make it this time :(. May be its Feb for me depending upon the scores. If its too low then I am planning on taking up the July next year after full prep as my job does not allow much time for me.

Congrats to all the others who made it this time.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by catechumen » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:07 pm

I didn't pass last time... That said, I felt better about it this time. The essays were not that bad... With the exception of the silly trusts one.... I actually thought the MBE's were 'easy' I guess we will see... The PT's were just strange this time. I mean glamping, really?

Still waiting to check if I passed. That said, your actual scores should come in the mail on Monday or Tuesday if you are in Cali. Longer if out of state. But within a week even if your on the other side of the country.

Now the essays, they take about a month to be sent out to you. Don't ask me why.... Makes no sense. They are just photo copies or print outs of our essays. There is no reason they could not have the MBE's graded and the essays sent out to us within 48 hours of taking the exam. In fact they could email all answers and graded mbe's without much problem... Granted the essays would not be graded, but it would give us a chance to figure out where we stand without having to wait 4 months.

Oh and if I did fail, I still want to organize a grand review for everyone. I live in Central California and have access to an entire church grounds for free. It would make a great staging ground for a mass review. Centrally located, and spacious for everyone to attend. If we organize we have a much better chance at passing. Besides it will be much cheaper than paying for yet another bar review coarse.
Carryon wrote:
jarofsoup wrote:How long does it take to get the score report?
I think Monday or Tuesday for just scores, your answers about 4weeks.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Carryon » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:36 pm

I know that the letter about your results is dated November 21, which is when I think that they mail it.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by TitoSantana » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:51 pm

Is there any attorneys here who took the 2-day and passed? Unfortunately I fell short and will be taking the February exam. I'm just trying to figure out if I should sit for the MBEs as well. I've been practicing in NY and have been away from this "study" thing for quite some time but hope to get ahead in preparing for February. Any suggestions and inexpensive bar prep courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by scrowell » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:21 pm

If you're crunched for study time because of a job, etc., I would suggest that you just practice MBEs and memorize the law for the essays. Don't bother practice essays/PTs.

I didn't write out any practice essays or PTs. Just rewrote outlines until I had as much of the law as possible memorized and passed. As long as you know the law the essays will fall into place during the exam.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by dtl » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:26 pm

TitoSantana wrote:Is there any attorneys here who took the 2-day and passed? Unfortunately I fell short and will be taking the February exam. I'm just trying to figure out if I should sit for the MBEs as well. I've been practicing in NY and have been away from this "study" thing for quite some time but hope to get ahead in preparing for February. Any suggestions and inexpensive bar prep courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I would do a lot of practice MBEs, and see if they are a strength for you. If so, the MBE can save your ass on the Cal Bar.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Carryon » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:28 pm

TitoSantana wrote:Is there any attorneys here who took the 2-day and passed? Unfortunately I fell short and will be taking the February exam. I'm just trying to figure out if I should sit for the MBEs as well. I've been practicing in NY and have been away from this "study" thing for quite some time but hope to get ahead in preparing for February. Any suggestions and inexpensive bar prep courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I did not pass the two day attorney exam. I took barmax review course. It costs about a 1000 dollars and comes with a free mini iPad. I also supplemented it with baressays.com, which has a lot of old exams and model answers. I got the premium subscription for 150 dollars. I bought Flemimgs pt kit for around 100 dollars. Also, the lowest cost to take the exam if you are out of state is at the Ontario convention center. Total incuding flight and hotel is around 900 for four days.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by NYtoCA » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:31 pm

Hi Tito - I took the 2-day attorneys exam and passed this July. I last took the NY bar 8 years ago and was also struggling with whether to do the 2-day or 3-day. You'll hear different opinions but I would recommend going the 2-day route if you know you're a decent writer under pressure. Everyone said the MBE was very tricky this July and there's no guarantee it'll provide a good cushion for essay grading. I also hate multiple choice but you might like that format. Finally, having the second day in between to rest/sleep in/review notes at leisure was great - yes, I kept reviewing each night of the exam using Leansheets :)

Here's what I recommend for studying for the essays and PTs (copied and pasted from another thread):

-I probably outlined or wrote out 60-70 essays. In the last 2 weeks, I stayed in the library and did 3 essays in a row under timed conditions, would review against model answers, and then repeat in the afternoon. This really helped solidify the rules in my mind so I could type them out very quickly during the actual exam. I did not start feeling okay about the essays until I made myself sit down and write out essays under timed conditions.

-I didn't have a memorization plan for rule statements, but made sure to know certain rules very well: Community Property opener, Contract (applicable law, offer, acceptance, etc), Evidence (definition of legal and logical relevance, hearsay exceptions), elements of negligence claim for Torts, etc

Resources I recommend highly:

-Leansheets (I bought them in a panic 10 days before the exam and read them every day and each night of the actual exam- very manageable and surprisingly pretty accurate, even the CA-specific stuff). They're only around 45 pages, so very quick read.
-Bar Code by Whitney Roberts (this helped a lot, esp for the Remedies question on Day 1, Crim Pro question on Day 3 and a 10(b)(5) misappropriation question on Day 1)
-Baressays.com - gives you a good sense of what you need for a 65. The outlines there are not great and incomplete in random areas so I wouldn't rely on them.
-Barbreaker (Adachi) - I either did or read all the essays in the book. His tips are valuable. I remember his approach for UCC Ks being particularly helpful.

I also purchased a used copy (2011 version) of the Conviser Mini Review which was good to have as a resource (when I was confused about the CA and Federal evidence distinctions, for example). If you go that route, buy 2012 CMR version if you can - mine was slightly outdated b/c of recent changes to the FRCP. I did make my own outlines from a friend's older outlines, the CMR, and some random free outlines on the web (Stanford, barexammind). In the end, I think I spent too much time outlining and should have started writing out PTs and essays earlier, but who knows.

Other thoughts:

-Formatting is KEY to passing the essays. Do NOT write big long paragraphs even though that is sometimes what you will see as a model answer on the CBX website. I underlined, made sure to write a lot of mini-paragraphs (3-4 sentences max), then moved the heck on. Most of the 65 and higher scoring essays on baressays.com have short paragraphs.

-During the essay portions of the exam, i took my highlighter and highlighted each fact in the question after I used it in my answer. Each sentence is important and you need to incorporate it into your analysis - this actually helps you. The bar examiners don't randomly throw useless sentences in there. Then I quickly scanned the question as I was answering to make sure I had highlighted all the sentences/used all the facts.

-Do not panic if the question asks you something pretty obscure or you just blank on something. Just put down something reasonable and move on.

-I did 3 full PTs under timed conditions. I think you need to do at least 3 or 4 practice ones to feel comfortable with them and make sure you finish on time. I felt like the PTs from July 14 weren't super straightforward, esp PT B on arbitration, so I felt pretty crappy on them. I think my essays saved me.

In the end, this worked for me. I, too, was questioning whether I should have taken the full 3-day with the MBEs - hope this is helpful to other practicing attorneys considering taking CBX. I didn't find many threads in detail about the attorney's exam when I was deciding which one to take.

Also, feel free to message me for questions. The bar prep is a little different if you're taking the 2-day. And your essay prep for CA will be drastically different this time. NY was hard b/c you have to know like 26 + subjects and the weird NY multiple choice. I found CA to be harder than NY b/c of the longer time we get to write essays (you can't just BS an issue and move on, you have to use the facts). Bc you are a practicing attorney, the PTs will be the easiest for you to prepare for and do well on, so don't forget about those.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by 2oldfts » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:44 pm

scrowell wrote:If you're crunched for study time because of a job, etc., I would suggest that you just practice MBEs and memorize the law for the essays. Don't bother practice essays/PTs.

I didn't write out any practice essays or PTs. Just rewrote outlines until I had as much of the law as possible memorized and passed. As long as you know the law the essays will fall into place during the exam.
This was EXACTLY my program.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by 2oldfts » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:49 pm

TitoSantana wrote:Is there any attorneys here who took the 2-day and passed? Unfortunately I fell short and will be taking the February exam. I'm just trying to figure out if I should sit for the MBEs as well. I've been practicing in NY and have been away from this "study" thing for quite some time but hope to get ahead in preparing for February. Any suggestions and inexpensive bar prep courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I chose to take the full exam after looking at the statistics. Pass rates for the attorney exam are much lower than for the US attys taking the general bar exam. I think I missed a lot of issues on the essays but who knows how they graded. So I don't know if I would have still passed if I only did the atty exam but I still think I made the right decision.

That being said, the prospect of dealing with Civil Procedure on the MBE is not appealing, so if I had to take it again its possible I would do the atty's exam

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by NYtoCA » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:03 pm

TitoSantana wrote:Is there any attorneys here who took the 2-day and passed? Unfortunately I fell short and will be taking the February exam. I'm just trying to figure out if I should sit for the MBEs as well. I've been practicing in NY and have been away from this "study" thing for quite some time but hope to get ahead in preparing for February. Any suggestions and inexpensive bar prep courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Sorry, I read your post too quickly - you will know your performance on the essays and PTs once you get your scores back from this round. If you're close to a passing score on the essays, I would lean towards trying the 2-day again, with the resources I listed above. It sounds like you're working full-time and may not have time to prepare for both MBE and essays.

The curve (much harsher this July) also killed a lot of people who took the 2-day I think - seriously, 30% pass rate for practicing attorneys??

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by TitoSantana » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:18 pm

Thank you all for your insight. I'll have a better handle on the 2-day vs. the 3-day once I get my scores back. I do think the passage rate for attorneys 2-day is dismal but I'm not confident at my multiple choice abilities. I'll take your kind offers in further offline advice when I get my mind around the best route and thanks again for your continued advice. P.S. after passing NY six years ago, I can honestly say that I'm getting too old for this bar prep stuff :)

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by jarofsoup » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:14 pm

TitoSantana wrote:Thank you all for your insight. I'll have a better handle on the 2-day vs. the 3-day once I get my scores back. I do think the passage rate for attorneys 2-day is dismal but I'm not confident at my multiple choice abilities. I'll take your kind offers in further offline advice when I get my mind around the best route and thanks again for your continued advice. P.S. after passing NY six years ago, I can honestly say that I'm getting too old for this bar prep stuff :)
Comparatively how hard do you think the NY bar is?

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Mr. Pink » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:04 pm

Congrats to all those that passed. I am happy to say that I successfully passed as well. I have checked the pass list about 30 times just to be sure though :P

I had to stay away from the board following the exam because I kept second guessing myself reading the various responses... but I guess I did enough to be considered mentally competent.

Question- when do we get our bar member numbers? Do we have to take the oath first or what? I live in Alabama and not planning on flying to CA anytime soon, but would like to have the number for job application purposes.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by NYtoCA » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:59 am

jarofsoup wrote:
TitoSantana wrote:Thank you all for your insight. I'll have a better handle on the 2-day vs. the 3-day once I get my scores back. I do think the passage rate for attorneys 2-day is dismal but I'm not confident at my multiple choice abilities. I'll take your kind offers in further offline advice when I get my mind around the best route and thanks again for your continued advice. P.S. after passing NY six years ago, I can honestly say that I'm getting too old for this bar prep stuff :)
Comparatively how hard do you think the NY bar is?
Both are hard for different reasons. I think your first bar exam is always your hardest. The NY exam has more random subjects to study for like commercial paper. But CA requires you to know the subjects more in depth, since the essays are an hour each. I found CA harder to prepare for after taking NY. It's an endurance game with CA.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by bravos89 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:46 am

Can people improve dramatically with practice on the PTs? I personally didn't do any practice PTs and felt like they were probably my best portion of the exam since you don't need to know any actual law for those sections. This is just my two-cents but I feel it would be worth trying to bank points on the Essays+MBE if you're weak on the PTs rather than spending a lot of time practicing the PTs.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Bearlegdairy » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:02 pm

bravos89 wrote:Can people improve dramatically with practice on the PTs? I personally didn't do any practice PTs and felt like they were probably my best portion of the exam since you don't need to know any actual law for those sections. This is just my two-cents but I feel it would be worth trying to bank points on the Essays+MBE if you're weak on the PTs rather than spending a lot of time practicing the PTs.
I think it's helpful to do a few just so you can figure out how you want to approach the PTs on the exam. One person recommended reading the legal authority first so you have an idea of what to look for in the fact pattern. It apparently worked for her, but I found that it slowed me down substantially and if I had used that approach on the exam I probably wouldn't have passed the PTs. I just went from beginning to end and apparently did well enough to compensate for all my missed issues on BA/PR and trusts/CP.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Mr. Pink » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:48 pm

bravos89 wrote:Can people improve dramatically with practice on the PTs? I personally didn't do any practice PTs and felt like they were probably my best portion of the exam since you don't need to know any actual law for those sections. This is just my two-cents but I feel it would be worth trying to bank points on the Essays+MBE if you're weak on the PTs rather than spending a lot of time practicing the PTs.
I think a big benefit of practicing PTs is to get familiar with the various types of documents you will be asked to draft. For me at least, once I do something one time I can usually do it again pretty easily. The first time I was asked to draft closing arguments I was completely lost- I wasn't sure how it was suppose to sound or how long it should have been, etc. But after doing one and then seeing the "model" answers, I was more comfortable in the event of seeing one on the exam.

You're right in that everything you need is there in the booklets, but already having a sense of the formats (client letters, office memos, summary judgments, etc.) was what helped me the most. I felt pretty good about the essays, meh on the MBEs, but I really felt like I hit homeruns with both CA PTs.... thankfully I won't know my score, but that's where I felt I did my best.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by dtl » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:17 pm

Is there any reason to go to the ceremony versus swearing in at the UPS store across the street?

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by camelcrema » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:26 pm

dtl wrote:Is there any reason to go to the ceremony versus swearing in at the UPS store across the street?
If you don't go to an official ceremony, they put an asterisk next to your name when you look your name up on the attorney search on the state bar website.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by sundance95 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:56 pm

Is the asterisk a link or something? Does it show who swore you in?

or am I whooshing?

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by 2oldfts » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:17 pm

jarofsoup wrote:
TitoSantana wrote:Thank you all for your insight. I'll have a better handle on the 2-day vs. the 3-day once I get my scores back. I do think the passage rate for attorneys 2-day is dismal but I'm not confident at my multiple choice abilities. I'll take your kind offers in further offline advice when I get my mind around the best route and thanks again for your continued advice. P.S. after passing NY six years ago, I can honestly say that I'm getting too old for this bar prep stuff :)
Comparatively how hard do you think the NY bar is?
I passed NY right out of law school in 2000 and just passed CA. In my estimation CA is MUCH harder. Back then, I followed the advice of a friend who passed NY and told me to just study the MBE using PMBR. That's pretty much all I did. Maybe the last day or two I looked over some NY materials briefly and pretty sure I messed up on the NY essay something terrible. You could do that and still pass. Dunno if it has changed with the addition of the MPT in NY (we didn't have that back then in NY)

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