Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[Easy-E]

Is involuntary intoxication not a defense to a strict liability crime?

[ndp1234]

Is involuntary intoxication not a defense to a strict liability crime?

No because strict liability has no required mens rea, so no way to negate it.

[Easy-E]

Is involuntary intoxication not a defense to a strict liability crime?

No because strict liability has no required mens rea, so no way to negate it.

Well that makes sense.

[bsktbll28082]

Finally finished the simulated tests. AM session: 69/100, PM session: 56/100. I have no consistency. Even took the PM session almost a week after the AM session, you'd think it'd be higher.

[PotLuck]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

[bsktbll28082]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

I'm doing about 150 PQs a day right now (finishing up the mixed sets). Reading through my outlines for MEE. I definitely do not feel I know the essay topics well enough. Probably going to spend the rest of this week following that schedule; next week I'll focus on my weak areas in the MBE most likely.

[Nebby]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

I spend probably twice as much time on PQs as I do MEE

[PotLuck]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

I spend probably twice as much time on PQs as I do MEE

I'm roughly the same. My state is 25% MPT 25% MEE 50% MBE.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

If I study for 6 hours, then 4 is dedicated to MBE review/PQs. For the other 2, I review an FRO or 2 and outline some practice essays for those topics.

[NaeDeen]

Fun can wait, it's go time.

The reason why I have not downloaded Pokemon Go. Just need to focus for another 20 days.

This cracks me up because my 6 year old son is obsessed with that right now! My husband took him to Barnes and Noble and Target today and said there were a bunch of people on the sidewalk all using the app.

meanwhile I was up past 1am watching the season finale of Outlander.

Hahaha! So many people are loving this game. I have stayed true to my word and have refrained from playing.
On a more serious note, make sure you and your family are careful--some people are using the game to defraud others.

[NaeDeen]

I have one complaint...okay, two.
1. Themis civ pro questions are VERY different than the NCBE sample questions--very tricky. I end up getting really simple questions wrong that I actually do know the answer to.
2. Can someone please explain to me why I pick the right answer only to switch it for the wrong answer? *tears*

[rambleon65]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

I spend probably twice as much time on PQs as I do MEE

I'm roughly the same. My state is 25% MPT 25% MEE 50% MBE.

Same, but starting to tip the scale towards the essay topics a bit more... Especially since I still have no damn idea what commercial paper is.

But I think most the essays are based around MBE topics anyway, so i think it's a good idea to keep focus on the MBE topics, even through multiple choice PQs.

[BigZuck]

I have one complaint...okay, two.
1. Themis civ pro questions are VERY different than the NCBE sample questions--very tricky. I end up getting really simple questions wrong that I actually do know the answer to.
2. Can someone please explain to me why I pick the right answer only to switch it for the wrong answer? *tears*

Just never ever ever ever switch from your first answer. Put it down, and then confidently move forward.

At least for me, when I switch I almost invariably get it wrong and I had the correct answer to begin with

[mu13ski]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

I spend probably twice as much time on PQs as I do MEE

I'm roughly the same. My state is 25% MPT 25% MEE 50% MBE.

Same, but starting to tip the scale towards the essay topics a bit more... Especially since I still have no damn idea what commercial paper is.

But I think most the essays are based around MBE topics anyway, so i think it's a good idea to keep focus on the MBE topics, even through multiple choice PQs.

Same. Did a commercial paper essay PQ today. Can't decide if I'll laugh or cry if I see one on the actual exam...

[NaeDeen]

I have one complaint...okay, two.
1. Themis civ pro questions are VERY different than the NCBE sample questions--very tricky. I end up getting really simple questions wrong that I actually do know the answer to.
2. Can someone please explain to me why I pick the right answer only to switch it for the wrong answer? *tears*

Just never ever ever ever switch from your first answer. Put it down, and then confidently move forward.

At least for me, when I switch I almost invariably get it wrong and I had the correct answer to begin with

It's the craziest thing. I am going to have to cut it out now as I can't afford it on test day.

[NaeDeen]

I know it will probably be only one/maybe none/no more than two questions on the MBE, but the Rule Against Perpetuities can eat a fat one.

I'm not even bothering with it - 1 or 2 questions on MBE and not tested for MD essays. I always get confused with who is the measuring life. My best friend has practiced trusts and estates for 13 years now and she thinks it's fun. It takes all kinds.

Be careful. It could be tested in the Trusts essay if there is one. Trusts includes future interests and RAP as well.

MD doesn't test trusts/wills either.

If MD did give us a trust/wills essay, I'd rejoice and send the board a gift! However, I'd cry if I got a RAP question.
Vantwins, I sent you a PM!!

[BigZuck]

Where my tortfeasors at?

[+] Spoiler

Four men were bow-and-arrow hunting in a thickly wooded area. Each man was wearing brightly-colored apparel to minimize the risk of an accident. However, midway through the day, one hunter was struck in the leg by an arrow. The wounded man collapsed in agony, and eventually required several surgical procedures and months of rehabilitation in order to walk again. None of the other three men admitted responsibility for the accident. The injured man sued the other three hunters, claiming negligence. The injured man (i.e., the plaintiff) introduced evidence tending to show that no other hunting parties were within a five-mile radius at the time of the incident, but he was unable to show conclusively which of the three defendants fired the arrow that caused his injury. At the conclusion of the plaintiff’s case, one of the defendants filed a motion for summary judgment. How should the court rule on the motion?

Correct Answer: Grant the motion, because the plaintiff has failed to meet his burden of proof.

A plaintiff has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that each defendant’s actions were an actual and proximate cause of the claimed injury. The plaintiff here failed to establish that the defendant who moved for summary judgment was negligent. Consequently, the defendant is entitled to summary judgment.


So..."conclusively" threw me off. So what plaintiff hasn't proven that one defendant was conclusively negligent, his burden is by preponderance of the evidence so he just needs to prove there was a 51% chance one was negligent, right? I get what they are trying to do I think (burden doesn't shift to defendants unless you prove they're all negligent so if you can't meet the preponderance standard for at least one, they're all off the hook) but putting the conclusively thing in that just seemed wrong.

Chalk it up to Themis gonna Them? Or am I missing something and "conclusively" was a proper word to include there?

[rambleon65]

Where my tortfeasors at?

[+] Spoiler

Four men were bow-and-arrow hunting in a thickly wooded area. Each man was wearing brightly-colored apparel to minimize the risk of an accident. However, midway through the day, one hunter was struck in the leg by an arrow. The wounded man collapsed in agony, and eventually required several surgical procedures and months of rehabilitation in order to walk again. None of the other three men admitted responsibility for the accident. The injured man sued the other three hunters, claiming negligence. The injured man (i.e., the plaintiff) introduced evidence tending to show that no other hunting parties were within a five-mile radius at the time of the incident, but he was unable to show conclusively which of the three defendants fired the arrow that caused his injury. At the conclusion of the plaintiff’s case, one of the defendants filed a motion for summary judgment. How should the court rule on the motion?

Correct Answer: Grant the motion, because the plaintiff has failed to meet his burden of proof.

A plaintiff has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that each defendant’s actions were an actual and proximate cause of the claimed injury. The plaintiff here failed to establish that the defendant who moved for summary judgment was negligent. Consequently, the defendant is entitled to summary judgment.


So..."conclusively" threw me off. So what plaintiff hasn't proven that one defendant was conclusively negligent, his burden is by preponderance of the evidence so he just needs to prove there was a 51% chance one was negligent, right? I get what they are trying to do I think (burden doesn't shift to defendants unless you prove they're all negligent so if you can't meet the preponderance standard for at least one, they're all off the hook) but putting the conclusively thing in that just seemed wrong.

Chalk it up to Themis gonna Them? Or am I missing something and "conclusively" was a proper word to include there?

I agree... also it's a summary judgment motion. Moreover, I think there's a colorable argument that res ipsa loquitur would apply to preclude summary judgment here.

Themis going to Theme.

[BarPreppin'12]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

None! I'm bout done with studying. Maybe I'll do 50 MBE PQ, and then read some sections of the outline that I don't understand. After I do that, I test myself, if I know it, I'm done for the day. Don't over do it now.

[1down1togo]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

None! I'm bout done with studying. Maybe I'll do 50 MBE PQ, and then read some sections of the outline that I don't understand. After I do that, I test myself, if I know it, I'm done for the day. Don't over do it now.

The first time i passed the bar, I did a bunch of flash cards. Like, hundreds. Some of them I reviewed, but honestly, the majority, I never had time to look at after i made them. I passed.

This time, I'm working, and I dont have time for flash cards. The only memorization i do is outlines and reading/rereading the lecture notes/RFOs. I'm doing no actual memorization- I.e. flash cards or trying to recall elements or whatever.

I dont know a lot of stuff cold. But it seems to be working well enough- 71% overall on MBEs, and slightly above average on my essays.

I feel like its impossible to memorize everything, so might as well just try to have a general understanding, and go from there. WHo knows though, maybe I wont pass this time.

[BarPreppin'12]

How much of everyone's day is memorization for MEE vs doing PQs?

I feel like I am not memorizing the basic elements of the law well enough.

None! I'm bout done with studying. Maybe I'll do 50 MBE PQ, and then read some sections of the outline that I don't understand. After I do that, I test myself, if I know it, I'm done for the day. Don't over do it now.

The first time i passed the bar, I did a bunch of flash cards. Like, hundreds. Some of them I reviewed, but honestly, the majority, I never had time to look at after i made them. I passed.

This time, I'm working, and I dont have time for flash cards. The only memorization i do is outlines and reading/rereading the lecture notes/RFOs. I'm doing no actual memorization- I.e. flash cards or trying to recall elements or whatever.

I dont know a lot of stuff cold. But it seems to be working well enough- 71% overall on MBEs, and slightly above average on my essays.

I feel like its impossible to memorize everything, so might as well just try to have a general understanding, and go from there. WHo knows though, maybe I wont pass this time.

That's what I have been doing. I don't agree with the themis graders: Memorize, memorize, memorize. It's impossible, stresses people out, and the outcomes are uncertain. It's better to make the material your own, and be able to incorporate it into fact patterns. I prefer analysis rather than rote memorization.

[PotLuck]

Are the mixed PQs designed to give you questions in your weakest sections for each topic?

[Rahviveh]

Is voluntary intox a defense to involuntary manslaughter?

[rcharter1978]

Is voluntary intox a defense to involuntary manslaughter?

No, voluntary intoxication is only a defense to specific intent crimes.

[Rahviveh]

Is voluntary intox a defense to involuntary manslaughter?

No, voluntary intoxication is only a defense to specific intent crimes.

I swear I saw a question about this that didn't make sense on either Themis or Adaptibar but I cannot find it now. If the intoxication makes it so that the defendant couldn't appreciate the significant risk, then maybe it can be a defense?