Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

Discussions related to the bar exam are found in this forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about bar exam prep. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
User avatar
iLoveFruits&Veggies

Bronze
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 12:01 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by iLoveFruits&Veggies » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:19 pm

Kiwi917 wrote:
jigglypuffdreams wrote:
If you want a lot of raw cheap NCBE questions and happen to have an ios device, Barmax's MBE bank is only $99. I bought it recently and I feel like I'm getting a good bang for my buck.
Thanks! That seems like a good compromise between the NCBE website and Adaptibar. I don't need a huge set, since I just want to get an idea of whether my scores are roughly comparable on 100% real questions. I'm also starting to get more repeat questions from Themis and am worried that might be skewing my results a little.
I haven't used the the MBE bank at BarMax, but what's most helpful about Adaptibar are the explanations... so just make sure those are good at BarMax :) I know Adaptibar lets you have a free look at a sample questions/explanations... hopefully there's something like that at BarMax too. Definitely go for what's affordable at this point. I can't believe how much we've had to spend on this whole process already... and the hotel tab is going to be pricey too. Blah. If I wasn't 90 minutes away, I'd definitely commute!

User avatar
puttycake

Bronze
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by puttycake » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:22 pm

On the MBE, if any question asks "Who will get paid first from this foreclosure sale" and one of the options is an attorney, pick the attorney. I guess we know who gets the laws written. :D

User avatar
bport hopeful

Gold
Posts: 4930
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:09 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by bport hopeful » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:52 pm

I though I got this, but a question made me think that I dont. What is the rule regarding life estates, remaindermen, and taxes?

User avatar
northwood

Platinum
Posts: 5036
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by northwood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:01 pm

bport hopeful wrote:I though I got this, but a question made me think that I dont. What is the rule regarding life estates, remaindermen, and taxes?

life estate pays mortgage, remainderman pays taxes I think

User avatar
iLoveFruits&Veggies

Bronze
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 12:01 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by iLoveFruits&Veggies » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:02 pm

bport hopeful wrote:I though I got this, but a question made me think that I dont. What is the rule regarding life estates, remaindermen, and taxes?
I'm pretty sure the person who has the life estate has to pay the taxes while he's got the life estate, as long as it doesn't exceed the amount of income generated by the property. I'm not the smartest one on here though... so I'd double check :wink: actually, I'm going to double check too lol!

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
bport hopeful

Gold
Posts: 4930
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:09 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by bport hopeful » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:05 pm

iLoveFruits&Veggies wrote:
bport hopeful wrote:I though I got this, but a question made me think that I dont. What is the rule regarding life estates, remaindermen, and taxes?
I'm pretty sure the person who has the life estate has to pay the taxes while he's got the life estate, as long as it doesn't exceed the amount of income generated by the property. I'm not the smartest one on here though... so I'd double check :wink: actually, I'm going to double check too lol!
This seems to be the answer, but I was under the impression that maintenance was, including property taxes fell on the remainder men, but the person with the life estate had to pay interest on those taxes

This may help.
A woman died testate. In her will, she devised a farm she owned to her husband for life, remainder to her niece. Her will did not specify the duties of the husband and the niece with regard to maintenance and expenses related to the farm. The husband took sole possession of the farm, did not farm the land, and did not rent the land to a third person, although the fair rental value was substantial. For two years in a row after the woman died, the county assessor sent the tax bills to the niece, but the niece did not pay the bills, because she and the husband could not agree on who should pay them. Finally, the niece paid the taxes to avoid a tax foreclosure sale. The niece then sued the husband for reimbursement for the two years' worth of property taxes. There is no applicable statute.

Is the niece likely to prevail?
A. No, because remaindermen are solely responsible for the payment of property taxes.
B. No, because the county assessor sent the bills to the niece.
C. No, because the woman's will was silent on responsibility for payment of property taxes.
D. Yes, because the niece paid an obligation that was the sole responsibility of the husband.
Incorrect: Answer choice D is correct. In the absence of a contrary direction in the document creating the life estate - in this case, the will - it is the duty of the life tenant to pay all general property taxes that accrue during the continuance of the life estate. The only limitation on this duty is that the life tenant has no duty to expend more than the income that can be generated from the land. Because the fair rental value of the farmland was substantial, this limitation does not apply. If the remainderman does pay any property taxes due during the life tenancy, he or she is entitled to a judgment against the life tenant for reimbursement. Answer
I swear Ive come across this 100 times though and have, prior to this, gotten it correct with my above (mis)understanding.

094320

Gold
Posts: 4086
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by 094320 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:07 pm

..

DavidB

Bronze
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:28 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by DavidB » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:08 pm

bport hopeful wrote:I though I got this, but a question made me think that I dont. What is the rule regarding life estates, remaindermen, and taxes?
From the Themis outline:

"To the extent that the property can produce income, life tenants have the obligation to pay all ordinary taxes on the land and interest on the mortgage. If the property is not producing an income, the life tenant is responsible for taxes and mortgage interest to the extent of the reasonable rental value of the land. The life tenant also has the duty not to commit waste."

Practically, the life estate possessor is responsible for taxes, but if she doesn't pay, then the remainderman has a interest in paying those taxes to prevent foreclosure through a tax lien. The remainderman can then bring an action to recover taxes from the life estate possessor.

Apple Tree

Bronze
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:19 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Apple Tree » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:22 pm

The CA contract essays are killing me! Even when I run the essay through the checklist I made, I still miss a bunch of issues sometimes! And when there's a bunch of a back and forth between the parties I kinda don't know how to organize my essays.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


User avatar
northwood

Platinum
Posts: 5036
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by northwood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:25 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
northwood wrote:
bport hopeful wrote:I though I got this, but a question made me think that I dont. What is the rule regarding life estates, remaindermen, and taxes?

life estate pays mortgage, remainderman pays taxes I think
Life estate pays the interest, but not the principal, of the mortgage. Life estate also pays taxes unless the taxes exceed the income generated by the property.

yup.. I was/am wrong

User avatar
bport hopeful

Gold
Posts: 4930
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:09 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by bport hopeful » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:31 pm

Thank you all.

User avatar
iLoveFruits&Veggies

Bronze
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 12:01 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by iLoveFruits&Veggies » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:47 pm

I wish there was some way in advance to know when my Themis advisor is going to call. I don't pick up "blocked" calls and I miss his call every time :cry: I guess I'll try to reach him from the portal, although whenever I've done that in the past, someone else responds...

numbertwo88

Bronze
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:00 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by numbertwo88 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:50 pm

iLoveFruits&Veggies wrote:I wish there was some way in advance to know when my Themis advisor is going to call. I don't pick up "blocked" calls and I miss his call every time :cry: I guess I'll try to reach him from the portal, although whenever I've done that in the past, someone else responds...
He calls from a blocked #? I would kind of hate that because I don't respond to blocked numbers either.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


User avatar
bport hopeful

Gold
Posts: 4930
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:09 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by bport hopeful » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:53 pm

Mine called once from a normal number, and then never again.

Genuine4ps

Silver
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Genuine4ps » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:34 pm

Could anyone help me with a joint tenancy question?

Under the four elements of JT, JTs must have an equal share of the same type of interest. I take that to mean that tenant "A" can't take a 2/3 interest while tenant "B" takes a 1/3 interest. Is that correct?

Does it destroy the JT if, for example, there are three tenants with equal shares and a tenant sells his share to one of the OTHER tenants?

User avatar
Tanicius

Gold
Posts: 2984
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:37 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:Could anyone help me with a joint tenancy question?

Under the four elements of JT, JTs must have an equal share of the same type of interest. I take that to mean that tenant "A" can't take a 2/3 interest while tenant "B" takes a 1/3 interest. Is that correct?
Correct.
Does it destroy the JT if, for example, there are three tenants with equal shares and a tenant sells his share to one of the OTHER tenants?
It only destroys the joint tenant who gave away his share. The joint tenant who is granted the 1/3 interest has a joint tenant interest in his original 1/3, and a tenant in common interest in his second 1/3. So his second share is freely deviseable, but his first share is not. Meanwhile, the third joint tenant just keeps his normal 1/3 joint tenant interest.

Genuine4ps

Silver
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Genuine4ps » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:43 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Genuine4ps wrote:Could anyone help me with a joint tenancy question?

Under the four elements of JT, JTs must have an equal share of the same type of interest. I take that to mean that tenant "A" can't take a 2/3 interest while tenant "B" takes a 1/3 interest. Is that correct?
Correct.
Does it destroy the JT if, for example, there are three tenants with equal shares and a tenant sells his share to one of the OTHER tenants?
It only destroys the joint tenant who gave away his share. The joint tenant who is granted the 1/3 interest has a joint tenant interest in his original 1/3, and a tenant in common interest in his second 1/3. So his second share is freely deviseable, but his first share is not. Meanwhile, the third joint tenant just keeps his normal 1/3 joint tenant interest.
Tanicius, you're awesome.

Good luck test karma sent!

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
puttycake

Bronze
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by puttycake » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:49 pm

I did a contracts essay a while ago and it was the most horrible thing in the world.

I did one just now and I cruised through it. Is that just the nature of the beast or am I especially patchy in my knowledge?

Lilly76

New
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:28 am

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Lilly76 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:02 pm

PA crimes are statutory so they don't have the same CL definitions. This means that I would have to know the CL elements for the MBE and NJ essays and PA elements for the PA essays. Some of the distinctions between the PA crimes and the CL crimes are very minor though.

For example, PA describes larceny as: Taking or exercising unlawful control of property with intent to deprive lawful owner. CL larceny is: Taking and carrying away of another's person's property w/o his consent w/the intent to deprive him of it permanently. PA accomplice is: Anyone who promotes or facilitates the commission of an offense with intent to help principal commit crime. CL accomplice is: Anyone who aids the principle prior to or during the crime with intent to help principle commit the crime.

Would I totally screw myself over if I simply used the CL rules where there isn't a big distinction, or should I make an effort to memorize the PA rules and hope that I can remember them come exam time and not mix them up with the CL rules?

dtl

Bronze
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:08 am

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by dtl » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:42 pm

I had three graded exams waiting for grades, one all the way back July 5th with the latest being the 10th or so.

I get a phone call yesterday that I am doing really great and all my numbers are looking okay.

Then my grader appears (way late) and grades the essays as ~60ish with fails with brutal comments.

I looked at the sample answers, and I am not missing that much.

I went from "Hurray!" yesterday to "Oh shit!" today. What a weird roller coaster... I feel like the graders and people running the show do not talk to each other at least when it comes to feedback.

How much stake are people putting into the graded essays? I almost want to buy a baressays.com membership to see if the grades really do translate.
Last edited by dtl on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ioezeigbo

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by ioezeigbo » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:43 pm

Hello all,
I know this is somewhat late in the game, but was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on doing MBE questions "test" mode vs. interactive mode. I'm reaching the point where I'm getting somewhat comfortable with the mixed MBE sets (60-65%), but interactive mode has a way of working with my emotions and I think it affects the way I perform on the rest of the set, when I get a bunch of Qs wrong in a row. I really preferred doing interactive mode for the single-subject sets because I learned a lot of law from the explanations and it prevented me from misremembering the info, but I think now it's doing more harm than help. Does anyone have any advice in this regard? Thanks!

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


dtl

Bronze
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:08 am

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by dtl » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:49 pm

ioezeigbo wrote:Hello all,
I know this is somewhat late in the game, but was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on doing MBE questions "test" mode vs. interactive mode. I'm reaching the point where I'm getting somewhat comfortable with the mixed MBE sets (60-65%), but interactive mode has a way of working with my emotions and I think it affects the way I perform on the rest of the set, when I get a bunch of Qs wrong in a row. I really preferred doing interactive mode for the single-subject sets because I learned a lot of law from the explanations and it prevented me from misremembering the info, but I think now it's doing more harm than help. Does anyone have any advice in this regard? Thanks!
Personally I find that I learn a lot more in the interactive mode. It lets me read the answer while the question is still fresh if I get it wrong, and pause if I need to look up the answer in an outline.

I have been doing around 2/3 interactive, 1/3 test mode since I got into the mixed. If time on the MBE is an issue for you, or if getting a question wrong impacts your confidence for the next one, do test mode for sure. Just make sure you spend enough time going over wrong answers afterwards to make up for not having them pointed out to you in real time.

mmmnnn

New
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by mmmnnn » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:56 pm

A state law provided that before an abortion may be performed a woman must (a) have a consultation with a physician, who should try to persuade the woman to have her baby, and (b) wait another 24 hours before seeking an abortion. A woman in the middle of her first trimester of pregnancy challenges the constitutionality of the law. Would a court be likely to strike down this law?

Answer Choices:

No, because the state has a rational basis for requiring the consultation and 24-hour waiting period.
No, because the state’s purpose is not to hinder women’s right to choose abortion, but merely to persuade women to choose birth and to ensure that their decisions are deliberate.
Yes, because the law violates the woman’s liberty interest in abortion protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.
Yes, because a state’s power to regulate abortions does not include the power to impose waiting periods.

Rationale: Answer choice B is correct. A state cannot place an “undue burden” on a woman’s fundamental Fourteenth Amendment Due Process liberty interest in having an abortion before fetal viability. However, the state law here does not constitute such an undue burden, as states may try to persuade women not to choose abortion and may impose reasonable waiting periods, so long as states do not hinder a woman’s right to choose abortion thereafter. For this reason, answer choices C and D are incorrect. Answer choice A is incorrect because a law that interferes with a fundamental right, such as abortion, is subject to strict scrutiny, not rational basis analysis.
To me, B is an irrelevant statement and A is correct. The Supreme Court has expressly rejected strict scrutiny for all abortion restrictions, and said in Carhart that a restriction must pass rational basis and not be an undue burden. So, the application of "undue burden" that I learned in law school is this: If the restriction imposes no undue burden, it's reviewed under the rational basis test; if it imposes an undue burden, it gets quasi-strict scrutiny.

I decided (1) this is not an undue burden, so (2) it must pass only rational basis review. I guess choice B is another way of saying "this is not an undue burden," but that doesn't mean A is wrong. In fact, it makes A more right, depending on what "undue burden" really means, which to my knowledge the Supreme Court has not fully explained.

Blah.

Kiwi917

Bronze
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:13 pm

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Kiwi917 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:04 pm

ioezeigbo wrote:Hello all,
I know this is somewhat late in the game, but was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on doing MBE questions "test" mode vs. interactive mode. I'm reaching the point where I'm getting somewhat comfortable with the mixed MBE sets (60-65%), but interactive mode has a way of working with my emotions and I think it affects the way I perform on the rest of the set, when I get a bunch of Qs wrong in a row. I really preferred doing interactive mode for the single-subject sets because I learned a lot of law from the explanations and it prevented me from misremembering the info, but I think now it's doing more harm than help. Does anyone have any advice in this regard? Thanks!
I would try test mode for a few sets and see how it goes. FWIW, the California staff sent out a message a week or two ago saying that we should be doing everything in test mode from now on. Personally, I found the interactive mode was giving my brain too much of a break in between questions and not really replicating that feeling of spending 90 minutes working straight, thinking hard about one question after the next. But if timing/fatigue are not big issues for you, then test mode might not be as helpful.

User avatar
Tanicius

Gold
Posts: 2984
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:10 pm

mmmnnn wrote:
A state law provided that before an abortion may be performed a woman must (a) have a consultation with a physician, who should try to persuade the woman to have her baby, and (b) wait another 24 hours before seeking an abortion. A woman in the middle of her first trimester of pregnancy challenges the constitutionality of the law. Would a court be likely to strike down this law?

Answer Choices:

No, because the state has a rational basis for requiring the consultation and 24-hour waiting period.
No, because the state’s purpose is not to hinder women’s right to choose abortion, but merely to persuade women to choose birth and to ensure that their decisions are deliberate.
Yes, because the law violates the woman’s liberty interest in abortion protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.
Yes, because a state’s power to regulate abortions does not include the power to impose waiting periods.

Rationale: Answer choice B is correct. A state cannot place an “undue burden” on a woman’s fundamental Fourteenth Amendment Due Process liberty interest in having an abortion before fetal viability. However, the state law here does not constitute such an undue burden, as states may try to persuade women not to choose abortion and may impose reasonable waiting periods, so long as states do not hinder a woman’s right to choose abortion thereafter. For this reason, answer choices C and D are incorrect. Answer choice A is incorrect because a law that interferes with a fundamental right, such as abortion, is subject to strict scrutiny, not rational basis analysis.
To me, B is an irrelevant statement and A is correct. The Supreme Court has expressly rejected strict scrutiny for all abortion restrictions, and said in Carhart that a restriction must pass rational basis and not be an undue burden. So, the application of "undue burden" that I learned in law school is this: If the restriction imposes no undue burden, it's reviewed under the rational basis test; if it imposes an undue burden, it gets quasi-strict scrutiny.

I decided (1) this is not an undue burden, so (2) it must pass only rational basis review. I guess choice B is another way of saying "this is not an undue burden," but that doesn't mean A is wrong. In fact, it makes A more right, depending on what "undue burden" really means, which to my knowledge the Supreme Court has not fully explained.

Blah.
Abortion is intermediate scrutiny, not rational basis.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum”