BarBri - NY Exam - July 2014 Forum

[Helpful]

Going to take a short break from the paced program to start memorizing the NY flash cards I made. Seems like this should be a high priority right now given that I'm OK with the MBE.

[klankenburger]

Random question: Did folks prepare for the simulated MBE at all? In other words, did you guys study for the six tested subjects in particular in the days preceding the test?

[pizzasodafries]

Prof Guzman is amazing. Every one of his recap lectures for the MBE simulated exam is worth watching. Very very worthwhile, feel much better about the material after watching it.

[Helpful]

Just went through that SmartBarPrep list and collected/reviewed some rules and I'm feeling a lot better about the NY day now. Still have a lot of memorizing to do, but realized I absorbed a lot more information than I thought. It's easy to get bogged down in some of the more complicated rules in the minutiae that doesn't get tested as often, but I realized that I have at least a basic comprehension on most of the "bolded"/most frequently tested stuff.

[bluecrab5448]

My simulated results just got uploaded. I totally bombed Real Property, which was no surprise, and Torts, which I thought I was okay at.

Also, my score report doesn't list the National Percentile anywhere - the Percentile Ranks just say TBD. Are they going to be filled in later?

[belowthelaw57]

Hey everyone. Just checking in to complain about how much I hate everything about this Wills lecture.
It is the worst lecture by such a huge margin.
I just have to say it.

I actually think Agency/Partnership was the worst. It's just that I guess that was under 2 hours and Wills was like 10.

[belowthelaw57]

On a totally different note, do we really need to know Powers of Appointment? For some reason it confused me....but knowing my luck it will show up on test day

I posted something similar because EF's frequency list starting on page 99 of her outline does not appear to have anything on powers or the rap stuff she did with powers.

I will say though that the CMR on powers is way clearer. Basically: specific or general, presently exercisable or testamentary. With a few more nuances, that's the extent of CMR coverage.

she said at the lecture that POA isn't in the chart b/c it ued to be a part of the trusts lecture.

btw, she also said that secured transactions was hell for her when she took the bar but luckily we don't need to worry about it b/c it isn't on our exam. Why do I have it in my PP then? and a lecture? I assume she just doesn't know what TH she's talking about?

Commercial Paper (Article 3) isn't on it any more. Secured transactions (Article 9) is.

[greenjuice]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

[5ky]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

Memorizing the lectures is more than you'll ever need. I basically didn't touch anything but the lectures for the NY subjects -- I memorized them very, very carefully. I found day 1 to be much easier than I was expecting. You'll get there. It feels like there's not enouhg time but it'll come together at the end

But you have to begin narrowing your universe. At some point you just have to say, "okay, i'm learning this. i'm not going to worry about anything else." I ended up with 2 binders, one for MBE and one for NY. I don't think I even opened anything else (CMR, etc) for the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't even bring the CMR with me to NY to take the exam, just studied from my universe

[Guchster]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

Memorizing the lectures is more than you'll ever need. I basically didn't touch anything but the lectures for the NY subjects -- I memorized them very, very carefully. I found day 1 to be much easier than I was expecting. You'll get there. It feels like there's not enouhg time but it'll come together at the end

But you have to begin narrowing your universe. At some point you just have to say, "okay, i'm learning this. i'm not going to worry about anything else." I ended up with 2 binders, one for MBE and one for NY. I don't think I even opened anything else (CMR, etc) for the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't even bring the CMR with me to NY to take the exam, just studied from my universe

Awesome. This is exactly what I needed to hear at this point in the game. Thanks again 5ky!

[plath]

OK dumb question probably but I don't get it: can a surviving spouse of a dude that died intestate choose b/w getting the intestate share and getting the elective share (it seems so from Wills hypo 44)?

Thanks:)

[AJS30]

OK dumb question probably but I don't get it: can a surviving spouse of a dude that died intestate choose b/w getting the intestate share and getting the elective share (it seems so from Wills hypo 44)?

Thanks:)

I basically asked barbri the same question and got this response (which I haven't even read over yet and just woke up so won't even attempt looking at it yet), hope it helps:

Like most states, New York has an elective share statute designed to protect a surviving spouse from being disinherited by the deceased spouse’s will. [§5-1.1-A]
The elective share is a dollar amount equal to the greater of: (i) $50,000 or (ii) one-third of the net estate. If the decedent’s net estate is less than $50,000, the elective share comprises the entire net estate. [§5-1.1-A(a)(2)]

In computing the net estate, the decedent’s estate is reduced by debts, administration expenses, and reasonable funeral expenses, but not by estate taxes. In determining the amount of the elective share, the size of the surviving spouse’s own estate is irrelevant. Even a multimillionaire is entitled to file for an elective share.

If the decedent left no will, the surviving spouse’s intestate share, which passes automatically (no election is involved), is $50,000 plus one-half of the balance of the estate if the decedent was survived by issue, and the entire estate if the decedent was not survived by issue. (See II.B., supra.)

Thus, a surviving spouse’s intestate share is always going to be larger than the elective share—unless the augmented estate includes substantial testamentary substitutes.

If the surviving spouse files for an elective share, the amount to which the spouse is entitled (the “net elective share”) is the elective share amount (one-third of the net estate) minus the value of all outright dispositions passing to the spouse under the will or as testamentary substitutes. The purpose of the “net elective share” rule is to avoid disrupting the decedent’s estate plan as far as possible, by first applying all interests passing into the spouse’s outright ownership.

(NY Wills - PG 57)

[plath]

OK dumb question probably but I don't get it: can a surviving spouse of a dude that died intestate choose b/w getting the intestate share and getting the elective share (it seems so from Wills hypo 44)?

Thanks:)

I basically asked barbri the same question and got this response (which I haven't even read over yet and just woke up so won't even attempt looking at it yet), hope it helps:

Like most states, New York has an elective share statute designed to protect a surviving spouse from being disinherited by the deceased spouse’s will. [§5-1.1-A]
The elective share is a dollar amount equal to the greater of: (i) $50,000 or (ii) one-third of the net estate. If the decedent’s net estate is less than $50,000, the elective share comprises the entire net estate. [§5-1.1-A(a)(2)]

In computing the net estate, the decedent’s estate is reduced by debts, administration expenses, and reasonable funeral expenses, but not by estate taxes. In determining the amount of the elective share, the size of the surviving spouse’s own estate is irrelevant. Even a multimillionaire is entitled to file for an elective share.

If the decedent left no will, the surviving spouse’s intestate share, which passes automatically (no election is involved), is $50,000 plus one-half of the balance of the estate if the decedent was survived by issue, and the entire estate if the decedent was not survived by issue. (See II.B., supra.)

Thus, a surviving spouse’s intestate share is always going to be larger than the elective share—unless the augmented estate includes substantial testamentary substitutes.

If the surviving spouse files for an elective share, the amount to which the spouse is entitled (the “net elective share”) is the elective share amount (one-third of the net estate) minus the value of all outright dispositions passing to the spouse under the will or as testamentary substitutes. The purpose of the “net elective share” rule is to avoid disrupting the decedent’s estate plan as far as possible, by first applying all interests passing into the spouse’s outright ownership.

(NY Wills - PG 57)

Surprisingly, they did not answer your (our) question. I get the calculation, I get the 1/2+50 and the 1/3 and all, I just don't get when the surviving spouse gets each. Can he pick b/w taking the intestate share or taking the elective share (which would be greater if T-subs are involved)?

[encore1101]

Surprisingly, they did not answer your (our) question. I get the calculation, I get the 1/2+50 and the 1/3 and all, I just don't get when the surviving spouse gets each. Can he pick b/w taking the intestate share or taking the elective share (which would be greater if T-subs are involved)?

From the practice commentary following EPTL 5-1.1-A:

If a decedent dies intestate, his surviving spouse is entitled to the property “set off” under EPTL 5-3.1, plus her intestate share, plus a share of testamentary substitutes sufficient to satisfy her one-third entitlement. Thus, in Matter of Vitelli, N.Y.L.J., March 16, 2004, at 24, col. 3 (Surrogate's Court, Queens County), where the decedent's intestate estate was less than the amount set off by EPTL 5-3.1 ($15,000 plus the listed items of personal property), the court granted the widow's petition to distribute one-third of decedent's pension (a testamentary substitute) to her.

So surviving spouse can get their intestate share, and if that intestate share is less than 1/3 of the testator's entire estate (including t-subs), then the surviving spouse can also get their elective share.

To answer your question, I don't think the surviving spouse has to choose one or the other. Instead, she gets her intestate share, and she may be entitled to more under the elective share in certain circumstances.

[greenjuice]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

Memorizing the lectures is more than you'll ever need. I basically didn't touch anything but the lectures for the NY subjects -- I memorized them very, very carefully. I found day 1 to be much easier than I was expecting. You'll get there. It feels like there's not enouhg time but it'll come together at the end

But you have to begin narrowing your universe. At some point you just have to say, "okay, i'm learning this. i'm not going to worry about anything else." I ended up with 2 binders, one for MBE and one for NY. I don't think I even opened anything else (CMR, etc) for the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't even bring the CMR with me to NY to take the exam, just studied from my universe

Awesome. This is exactly what I needed to hear at this point in the game. Thanks again 5ky!

Ditto. Thanks for keeping it all in perspective! It's hard not to get sucked into my own little panic-induced bubble...

[thetashster]

is anybody doing a dual bar? particularly Massachusetts?

how are you handling the dual material/prep?

[anon919]

Random question: Did folks prepare for the simulated MBE at all? In other words, did you guys study for the six tested subjects in particular in the days preceding the test?

Only really got a chance to review a 2-3 of the subjects. It showed.

[Guchster]

I'm not sure if I enjoyed these Freer and conflicts of law lectures so much because they were both good lectures, or if it is a result of 13+ hours of pure hell with EF.

[salvage]

Any advice for someone with a poor memory? I did well in law school on open book exams where I am required to apply law to fact and come up with creative arguments. I also do well on the MBE when my memory is jogged by the questions and answers and I'm not required to regurgitate perfect rule statements, but I'm simply not capable of memorizing the amount of trivia that is required on NY essays. I could have two years (forget 2 months), and I will not be able to memorize NY practice rules or the differences between 2nd degree and 3rd degree whatever.

[plath]

Surprisingly, they did not answer your (our) question. I get the calculation, I get the 1/2+50 and the 1/3 and all, I just don't get when the surviving spouse gets each. Can he pick b/w taking the intestate share or taking the elective share (which would be greater if T-subs are involved)?

From the practice commentary following EPTL 5-1.1-A:

If a decedent dies intestate, his surviving spouse is entitled to the property “set off” under EPTL 5-3.1, plus her intestate share, plus a share of testamentary substitutes sufficient to satisfy her one-third entitlement. Thus, in Matter of Vitelli, N.Y.L.J., March 16, 2004, at 24, col. 3 (Surrogate's Court, Queens County), where the decedent's intestate estate was less than the amount set off by EPTL 5-3.1 ($15,000 plus the listed items of personal property), the court granted the widow's petition to distribute one-third of decedent's pension (a testamentary substitute) to her.

So surviving spouse can get their intestate share, and if that intestate share is less than 1/3 of the testator's entire estate (including t-subs), then the surviving spouse can also get their elective share.

To answer your question, I don't think the surviving spouse has to choose one or the other. Instead, she gets her intestate share, and she may be entitled to more under the elective share in certain circumstances.

Thanks a million

[Guchster]

Any advice for someone with a poor memory? I did well in law school on open book exams where I am required to apply law to fact and come up with creative arguments. I also do well on the MBE when my memory is jogged by the questions and answers and I'm not required to regurgitate perfect rule statements, but I'm simply not capable of memorizing the amount of trivia that is required on NY essays. I could have two years (forget 2 months), and I will not be able to memorize NY practice rules or the differences between 2nd degree and 3rd degree whatever.

Same boat here.

I've been making and using flash cards and prioritizing based off the frequency chart of each subtopic posted in here a few pages ago, but I'm still shit and having trouble retaining. I also invested in Lean Sheets--so if I'm drilling Wills, let's say that day, I'll look over my wills lean sheet in bed.

A friend said I should drill practice essays by just writing out the relevant rule and moving on (I'm a pretty decent essay writer when I know the law) to see if I can recall. I wanted to wait a little closer to the bar exam to do this so I wasn't wasting time, but I think that time has arrived, so I'm going to try that and see how it works.

[MissLucky]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

Memorizing the lectures is more than you'll ever need. I basically didn't touch anything but the lectures for the NY subjects -- I memorized them very, very carefully. I found day 1 to be much easier than I was expecting. You'll get there. It feels like there's not enouhg time but it'll come together at the end

But you have to begin narrowing your universe. At some point you just have to say, "okay, i'm learning this. i'm not going to worry about anything else." I ended up with 2 binders, one for MBE and one for NY. I don't think I even opened anything else (CMR, etc) for the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't even bring the CMR with me to NY to take the exam, just studied from my universe

I am about 2 days of lecture behind (I still need to watch 1 of the wills lectures and the fed jurisdiction one) - can I go ahead and not read the conflict of laws and fed jurisdiction CMR? anyone else skipping these CMRs towards the end?

[Scarletlady]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

Memorizing the lectures is more than you'll ever need. I basically didn't touch anything but the lectures for the NY subjects -- I memorized them very, very carefully. I found day 1 to be much easier than I was expecting. You'll get there. It feels like there's not enouhg time but it'll come together at the end

But you have to begin narrowing your universe. At some point you just have to say, "okay, i'm learning this. i'm not going to worry about anything else." I ended up with 2 binders, one for MBE and one for NY. I don't think I even opened anything else (CMR, etc) for the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't even bring the CMR with me to NY to take the exam, just studied from my universe

I am about 2 days of lecture behind (I still need to watch 1 of the wills lectures and the fed jurisdiction one) - can I go ahead and not read the conflict of laws and fed jurisdiction CMR? anyone else skipping these CMRs towards the end?

Federal Jurisdiction was just straight up Civ Pro, and I personally found that the CMR was over-comprehensive compared to the lecture. But I would recommend revisiting portions of the CMR highlighted in the lecture because I found some of the nuances helpful.

For Conflicts, I would recommend reading the CMR first if you didn't take a Conflicts class to get a better gist of it. The lecture cuts right to BLL and can easily be watched at at least 1.5 speed if you have a handle on Conflicts principals.

[MissLucky]

Starting to panic a little about the Ny subjects. I don't ever get more than 50% on a NYMC set and I feel like relying on the lectures alone isn't enough. But at the same time, I just don't think I can memorize the CMR for every topic. Argh. Anyone have any tips?

Memorizing the lectures is more than you'll ever need. I basically didn't touch anything but the lectures for the NY subjects -- I memorized them very, very carefully. I found day 1 to be much easier than I was expecting. You'll get there. It feels like there's not enouhg time but it'll come together at the end

But you have to begin narrowing your universe. At some point you just have to say, "okay, i'm learning this. i'm not going to worry about anything else." I ended up with 2 binders, one for MBE and one for NY. I don't think I even opened anything else (CMR, etc) for the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't even bring the CMR with me to NY to take the exam, just studied from my universe

I am about 2 days of lecture behind (I still need to watch 1 of the wills lectures and the fed jurisdiction one) - can I go ahead and not read the conflict of laws and fed jurisdiction CMR? anyone else skipping these CMRs towards the end?

Federal Jurisdiction was just straight up Civ Pro, and I personally found that the CMR was over-comprehensive compared to the lecture. But I would recommend revisiting portions of the CMR highlighted in the lecture because I found some of the nuances helpful.

For Conflicts, I would recommend reading the CMR first if you didn't take a Conflicts class to get a better gist of it. The lecture cuts right to BLL and can easily be watched at at least 1.5 speed if you have a handle on Conflicts principals.

Thanks a lot!

[Helpful]

For the essays, I'm assuming it's not important to know rule statements verbatim as long as we approximate the substance, right?