FLORIDA BAR - JULY 2014 Forum

[Hannibal]

GET HYPE IT'S ALMOST OVER

[MoneyMay]

So I feel like I know the basic rules for almost any essay and can BS from there. Hopefully that's enough.

[MoneyMay]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

[SilverE2]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

[MoneyMay]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

I am freaking about the essays. I don't care about the MC because I can just guess, but holy shit I hope we don't get something stupid on the essays.

[alicrimson]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

I thought we needed a 136 to pass? Also, don't forget the MC! They get half the score through MC/Essay and half through MBE. So, if you're at a 155, you need a 117 between the essay and MC portion. No one knows with exact certainty how they get that score, but the rule of thumb is go for 45 on each essay to pass and 55% on FL MC.

This is completely word of mouth, but I've been told that the essay isn't usually the problem in Florida. It's the MC. Mainly, because it's heavy rule based and you either know the rules or you don't. Plus, it's allegedly horrendously written. I did the study guide problems on the bar website, and it didn't seem bad. Not sure if that's reflective of the actual difficulty of the questions though, as all of the study guide questions are the same for pretty much every year. Anyone have any insight on that?

[MoneyMay]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

I thought we needed a 136 to pass? Also, don't forget the MC! They get half the score through MC/Essay and half through MBE. So, if you're at a 155, you need a 117 between the essay and MC portion. No one knows with exact certainty how they get that score, but the rule of thumb is go for 45 on each essay to pass and 55% on FL MC.

This is completely word of mouth, but I've been told that the essay isn't usually the problem in Florida. It's the MC. Mainly, because it's heavy rule based and you either know the rules or you don't. Plus, it's allegedly horrendously written. I did the study guide problems on the bar website, and it didn't seem bad. Not sure if that's reflective of the actual difficulty of the questions though, as all of the study guide questions are the same for pretty much every year. Anyone have any insight on that?

Hey not trying to freak you out but I talked to someone just earlier today who took last summer and he said it's not even close in difficulty. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news but just wanted to give you a heads up!

[SilverE2]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

I thought we needed a 136 to pass?

You do need a 136 scaled score, averaged between the two portions. So a total of 272 (136 x 2) points between the FL portion and the MBE portion. So if he gets a 155 scaled score, then he'll need another 113 scaled points (272-155).

[MoneyMay]

113 scaled has GOT to be at the very bottom of the scaled scores given out. I am just trying to make myself feel better. Not sure why but I suddenly had a major freakout about the essays.

[Hannibal]

113 scaled has GOT to be at the very bottom of the scaled scores given out. I am just trying to make myself feel better. Not sure why but I suddenly had a major freakout about the essays.

I mean, it's significantly below passing, and 85% of people pass. 137 seems like a high number but just remember it HAS to be bottom 15% below that.

[alicrimson]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

I thought we needed a 136 to pass?

You do need a 136 scaled score, averaged between the two portions. So a total of 272 (136 x 2) points between the FL portion and the MBE portion. So if he gets a 155 scaled score, then he'll need another 113 scaled points (272-155).

Math isn't my strong suit I suppose. I thought it was weighted 50/50, so 155+113=268/2=134? And 155+117=272/2=136? And I'm pretty sure 272-155 is 117. I'm not trying to be weird or argumentative, so if I'm doing it wrong, please let me know. I would legit love to be wrong.

[SilverE2]

113 scaled has GOT to be at the very bottom of the scaled scores given out. I am just trying to make myself feel better. Not sure why but I suddenly had a major freakout about the essays.

I agree, and I don't want to freak you out more, but this is where I got the idea of essays being scaled down harshly: http://www.aplusebooks.com/florida-bar- ... ed-scores/. The examples used on that page, if you scroll down, have the hypothetical bar examiners curving down essays by a factor of 1.75. This would bring an overall essay score of 136 (all three combined) down to only 78 points.

This freaked me out, because I was under the impression that if you do decent on the MBE (155 scaled) and do decent on the essays (let's say, 165 raw, so 55 points per essay) then the multiple choice would pretty much be irrelevant. But, if they actually scale down the raw essay scores by that much...well, that changes things. As a final thought, it's not clear from that page, however, whether the 1.75 is an actual figure or is just used to make the example easy, and if the bar examiners would never actually curve down essays that much.

[SilverE2]

Math isn't my strong suit I suppose. I thought it was weighted 50/50, so 155+113=268/2=134? And 155+117=272/2=136? I'm not trying to be weird or argumentative, so if I'm doing it wrong, please let me know. I would legit love to be wrong.

Yeah. Fuck, I messed up the math. Yeah so he would need 117 points, not 113. My bad.

[alicrimson]

Math isn't my strong suit I suppose. I thought it was weighted 50/50, so 155+113=268/2=134? And 155+117=272/2=136? I'm not trying to be weird or argumentative, so if I'm doing it wrong, please let me know. I would legit love to be wrong.

Yeah. Fuck, I messed up the math. Yeah so he would need 117 points, not 113. My bad.

You're fine! Also, sorry if I came across dickish. Wasn't my intent, I always mess up math stuffs, so I thought I was confused (Lord, please don't give us some crazy cumulative voting questions lol). Damn bar brain...

Edit.

[hous]

Here is a brain buster for yall.

Defendant is on trial for the sexual battery of an eight-year-old girl. The sexual battery was discovered when Child's mother sought medical treatment for her, not knowing what was wrong with her. After the abuse was discovered, Child was questioned by medical professionals, family members, police officers, and social workers trained in forensic interviewing. Child also received therapy from a licensed clinical social worker. The prosecutor is seeking to admit Child's medical records, as well as her statements to others in which she identifies Defendant as the perpetrator of the crime.
The notes by the doctor, who disclosed the fact that abuse had occurred to Child's mother, state the following: "Patient initially presented complaining of a persistent fever and cough. After disclosing nature of illness to mother, the patient's cousin spoke to her and then told me that the patient said a male relative touched her in her private area. Authorities contacted."
This medical record is:
A. Not admissible because the medical record is double hearsay.
B. Admissible as a business record so long as Child's mother signs a release and waives any privilege to her daughter's medical information.
C. Admissible as statements made in the course of seeking medical treatment.
D. Admissible in part as an exception to the hearsay rule as statements made for the purpose of diagnosing and treating a medical condition, and inadmissible in part because it contains statements identifying the perpetrator which are not relevant to seeking medical treatment.

Interesting question. I initially contested the answer but now that I look closer I see it's a trick bugger but legit.

The answer is D. I can see why, but I have a question about the explanation. It says, "However, Florida does not consider statements about the identity of the defendant as being relevant to diagnosing and providing medical treatment so these are inadmissible." I recall that statements of identity of an child molester made to a doctor may be admissible because removing the child from an abusive environment may be a part of the treatment? Perhaps this is just a federal interpretation?

[alicrimson]

Here is a brain buster for yall.

Defendant is on trial for the sexual battery of an eight-year-old girl. The sexual battery was discovered when Child's mother sought medical treatment for her, not knowing what was wrong with her. After the abuse was discovered, Child was questioned by medical professionals, family members, police officers, and social workers trained in forensic interviewing. Child also received therapy from a licensed clinical social worker. The prosecutor is seeking to admit Child's medical records, as well as her statements to others in which she identifies Defendant as the perpetrator of the crime.
The notes by the doctor, who disclosed the fact that abuse had occurred to Child's mother, state the following: "Patient initially presented complaining of a persistent fever and cough. After disclosing nature of illness to mother, the patient's cousin spoke to her and then told me that the patient said a male relative touched her in her private area. Authorities contacted."
This medical record is:
A. Not admissible because the medical record is double hearsay.
B. Admissible as a business record so long as Child's mother signs a release and waives any privilege to her daughter's medical information.
C. Admissible as statements made in the course of seeking medical treatment.
D. Admissible in part as an exception to the hearsay rule as statements made for the purpose of diagnosing and treating a medical condition, and inadmissible in part because it contains statements identifying the perpetrator which are not relevant to seeking medical treatment.

Interesting question. I initially contested the answer but now that I look closer I see it's a trick bugger but legit.

The answer is D. I can see why, but I have a question about the explanation. It says, "However, Florida does not consider statements about the identity of the defendant as being relevant to diagnosing and providing medical treatment so these are inadmissible." I recall that statements of identity of an child molester made to a doctor may be admissible because removing the child from an abusive environment may be a part of the treatment? Perhaps this is just a federal interpretation?

The answer is correct. It's weird though. This kind of a statement would not be admissible under the hearsay exception for seeking medical treatment, but it may be admitted if it meets a special statutory hearsay exception. The kid has to be under 16 and describing some kind of abuse. It comes in if the time content and circumstances of the event give sufficient safeguards or reliability and the kid either testifies or is unwilling to testify. I'm assuming here that the statement to the cousin that is relayed to the doctor doesn't have sufficient safeguards for reliability.

[hous]

Here is a brain buster for yall.

Defendant is on trial for the sexual battery of an eight-year-old girl. The sexual battery was discovered when Child's mother sought medical treatment for her, not knowing what was wrong with her. After the abuse was discovered, Child was questioned by medical professionals, family members, police officers, and social workers trained in forensic interviewing. Child also received therapy from a licensed clinical social worker. The prosecutor is seeking to admit Child's medical records, as well as her statements to others in which she identifies Defendant as the perpetrator of the crime.
The notes by the doctor, who disclosed the fact that abuse had occurred to Child's mother, state the following: "Patient initially presented complaining of a persistent fever and cough. After disclosing nature of illness to mother, the patient's cousin spoke to her and then told me that the patient said a male relative touched her in her private area. Authorities contacted."
This medical record is:
A. Not admissible because the medical record is double hearsay.
B. Admissible as a business record so long as Child's mother signs a release and waives any privilege to her daughter's medical information.
C. Admissible as statements made in the course of seeking medical treatment.
D. Admissible in part as an exception to the hearsay rule as statements made for the purpose of diagnosing and treating a medical condition, and inadmissible in part because it contains statements identifying the perpetrator which are not relevant to seeking medical treatment.

Interesting question. I initially contested the answer but now that I look closer I see it's a trick bugger but legit.

The answer is D. I can see why, but I have a question about the explanation. It says, "However, Florida does not consider statements about the identity of the defendant as being relevant to diagnosing and providing medical treatment so these are inadmissible." I recall that statements of identity of an child molester made to a doctor may be admissible because removing the child from an abusive environment may be a part of the treatment? Perhaps this is just a federal interpretation?

The answer is correct. It's weird though. This kind of a statement would not be admissible under the hearsay exception for seeking medical treatment, but it may be admitted if it meets a special statutory hearsay exception. The kid has to be under 16 and describing some kind of abuse. It comes in if the time content and circumstances of the event give sufficient safeguards or reliability and the kid either testifies or is unwilling to testify. I'm assuming here that the statement to the cousin that is relayed to the doctor doesn't have sufficient safeguards for reliability.

Hmmm. Themis told us the age in that statute was 11 (Themis Florida outline Volume 2, page 65). I see the statute says 16. I wonder if it was amended??? Which one should we go off of? I remember Themis even had a question on this hearsay exception and the explanation noted the age was 11.

[alicrimson]

Here is a brain buster for yall.

Defendant is on trial for the sexual battery of an eight-year-old girl. The sexual battery was discovered when Child's mother sought medical treatment for her, not knowing what was wrong with her. After the abuse was discovered, Child was questioned by medical professionals, family members, police officers, and social workers trained in forensic interviewing. Child also received therapy from a licensed clinical social worker. The prosecutor is seeking to admit Child's medical records, as well as her statements to others in which she identifies Defendant as the perpetrator of the crime.
The notes by the doctor, who disclosed the fact that abuse had occurred to Child's mother, state the following: "Patient initially presented complaining of a persistent fever and cough. After disclosing nature of illness to mother, the patient's cousin spoke to her and then told me that the patient said a male relative touched her in her private area. Authorities contacted."
This medical record is:
A. Not admissible because the medical record is double hearsay.
B. Admissible as a business record so long as Child's mother signs a release and waives any privilege to her daughter's medical information.
C. Admissible as statements made in the course of seeking medical treatment.
D. Admissible in part as an exception to the hearsay rule as statements made for the purpose of diagnosing and treating a medical condition, and inadmissible in part because it contains statements identifying the perpetrator which are not relevant to seeking medical treatment.

Interesting question. I initially contested the answer but now that I look closer I see it's a trick bugger but legit.

The answer is D. I can see why, but I have a question about the explanation. It says, "However, Florida does not consider statements about the identity of the defendant as being relevant to diagnosing and providing medical treatment so these are inadmissible." I recall that statements of identity of an child molester made to a doctor may be admissible because removing the child from an abusive environment may be a part of the treatment? Perhaps this is just a federal interpretation?

The answer is correct. It's weird though. This kind of a statement would not be admissible under the hearsay exception for seeking medical treatment, but it may be admitted if it meets a special statutory hearsay exception. The kid has to be under 16 and describing some kind of abuse. It comes in if the time content and circumstances of the event give sufficient safeguards or reliability and the kid either testifies or is unwilling to testify. I'm assuming here that the statement to the cousin that is relayed to the doctor doesn't have sufficient safeguards for reliability.

Hmmm. Themis told us the age in that statute was 11 (Themis Florida outline Volume 2, page 65). I see the statute says 16. I wonder if it was amended??? Which one should we go off of? I remember Themis even had a question on this hearsay exception and the explanation noted the age was 11.

Idk...I didn't take themis. I took barbri and they have 16 as the age in their materials.

[hous]

Here is a brain buster for yall.

Defendant is on trial for the sexual battery of an eight-year-old girl. The sexual battery was discovered when Child's mother sought medical treatment for her, not knowing what was wrong with her. After the abuse was discovered, Child was questioned by medical professionals, family members, police officers, and social workers trained in forensic interviewing. Child also received therapy from a licensed clinical social worker. The prosecutor is seeking to admit Child's medical records, as well as her statements to others in which she identifies Defendant as the perpetrator of the crime.
The notes by the doctor, who disclosed the fact that abuse had occurred to Child's mother, state the following: "Patient initially presented complaining of a persistent fever and cough. After disclosing nature of illness to mother, the patient's cousin spoke to her and then told me that the patient said a male relative touched her in her private area. Authorities contacted."
This medical record is:
A. Not admissible because the medical record is double hearsay.
B. Admissible as a business record so long as Child's mother signs a release and waives any privilege to her daughter's medical information.
C. Admissible as statements made in the course of seeking medical treatment.
D. Admissible in part as an exception to the hearsay rule as statements made for the purpose of diagnosing and treating a medical condition, and inadmissible in part because it contains statements identifying the perpetrator which are not relevant to seeking medical treatment.

Interesting question. I initially contested the answer but now that I look closer I see it's a trick bugger but legit.

The answer is D. I can see why, but I have a question about the explanation. It says, "However, Florida does not consider statements about the identity of the defendant as being relevant to diagnosing and providing medical treatment so these are inadmissible." I recall that statements of identity of an child molester made to a doctor may be admissible because removing the child from an abusive environment may be a part of the treatment? Perhaps this is just a federal interpretation?

The answer is correct. It's weird though. This kind of a statement would not be admissible under the hearsay exception for seeking medical treatment, but it may be admitted if it meets a special statutory hearsay exception. The kid has to be under 16 and describing some kind of abuse. It comes in if the time content and circumstances of the event give sufficient safeguards or reliability and the kid either testifies or is unwilling to testify. I'm assuming here that the statement to the cousin that is relayed to the doctor doesn't have sufficient safeguards for reliability.

Hmmm. Themis told us the age in that statute was 11 (Themis Florida outline Volume 2, page 65). I see the statute says 16. I wonder if it was amended??? Which one should we go off of? I remember Themis even had a question on this hearsay exception and the explanation noted the age was 11.

Idk...I didn't take themis. I took barbri and they have 16 as the age in their materials.

2010 statute says 11, 2013 statute says 16 so I can infer the statute was amended and the correct age is 16...

I checked the Florida senate website to fact check.

[SilverE2]

Ok so I just realized if I hit the bottom of my MBE practice score range on the actual MBE I will probably be looking at a 145 or so raw, and when that's curved I will be in the mid 150s. My only question now is how low can you score on the FL section...

If you get a 155 curved, you'll have to obtain 113 points on the Florida portion. Should be pretty easy, but the essays are sometimes curved down pretty harshly.

I thought we needed a 136 to pass? Also, don't forget the MC! They get half the score through MC/Essay and half through MBE. So, if you're at a 155, you need a 117 between the essay and MC portion. No one knows with exact certainty how they get that score, but the rule of thumb is go for 45 on each essay to pass and 55% on FL MC.

This is completely word of mouth, but I've been told that the essay isn't usually the problem in Florida. It's the MC. Mainly, because it's heavy rule based and you either know the rules or you don't. Plus, it's allegedly horrendously written. I did the study guide problems on the bar website, and it didn't seem bad. Not sure if that's reflective of the actual difficulty of the questions though, as all of the study guide questions are the same for pretty much every year. Anyone have any insight on that?

Hey not trying to freak you out but I talked to someone just earlier today who took last summer and he said it's not even close in difficulty. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news but just wanted to give you a heads up!

Well that sucks. Because I just did the study guide and got 80% correct...while I've been averaging 40% correct on the Themis Florida multiple choice. Fuck.

[MoneyMay]

My strategy for the MC is basically pray we don't get business entities.

[SilverE2]

My strategy for the MC is basically pray we don't get business entities.

Haha, I'm all about business entities (I loved corporations in law school). I'm utterly fucked if we get UCC 3 or 9 though. A dream multiple choice section for me would be Civ Pro (obviously, because we have no choice), wills, business entities (which I assume would include partnerships).

[MoneyMay]

My strategy for the MC is basically pray we don't get business entities.

Haha, I'm all about business entities (I loved corporations in law school). I'm utterly fucked if we get UCC 3 or 9 though. A dream multiple choice section for me would be Crim Pro (obviously, because we have no choice), wills, business entities (which I assume would include partnerships).

I am writing that off as an acceptable loss, along with juvenile dependency. Minimum competency all the way.

[Shawshank33]

In tampa..I can see the convention center from my window right now..shit just got real

[SilverE2]

In tampa..I can see the convention center from my window right now..shit just got real

Damn, you got here early! (I'm here but I'm staying at a friend's house until tomorrow night). Are you staying at the Westin by any chance?

*edit*

I'm not being a weirdo, just trying to find out if the rooms have microwaves, lol. It doesn't seem like it from the hotel website :-/