Florida Bar Exam - Official Thread Forum

[JoeSeperac]

I passed florida part i am struggling with the mbe. I know you need a 136 to pass the mbe in florida but in other states its lower depending on the state. I saw some states are 130, 132, 133, etc. I keep getting an mbe score that would allow me to pass in other states. I am just not getting a 136 for florida.

Joe Seperac (tagging him below) is the scores expert here, but subject to whatever he says (if he's kind enough to chime in), IIRC a rough rule of thumb is that, while there's technically no minimum MBE score in the UBE states, you want to shoot for 1/2 of the UBE minimum on the MBE. The "lowest" UBE score accepted as passing in any jurisdiction is a 260, meaning you'd want a 130 MBE - but only 5 states are "260" states: AL, MN, MO, NM and ND. The next "lowest" UBE score is a 266, meaning you'd want a 133 MBE - these include the major jurisdictions of DC, IL, and NY, among many others. Then you have the "270" states (~135 MBE), which include MA, NC, TX, and WA.

If you passed Part A, you would need a 136 on the MBE to pass Part B. Based on past scales, this is about 62% correct. see https://www.seperac.com/zcalc-mbe-febjuly.php

If you are considering a UBE state, there is no minimum MBE. For example, you can pass with a low MBE and high written or vice versa.

I put the F20 pass list into a spreadsheet and it appears the F20 Florida pass rate was around 45%. The Avg Feb pass rate in Florida over the past 25 years is 61% so this is appears to be a bit below average.

[QContinuum]

If you are considering a UBE state, there is no minimum MBE. For example, you can pass with a low MBE and high written or vice versa.

Thanks, Joe. But isn't it the case that the written component of the UBE is "scaled" to one's MBE score in some way, such that if you bomb the MBE, it then becomes difficult to pass on the strength of your written scores? Or is that just CA bar, and not the UBE?

[Hooyah]

Gotti, what were your scores?

I used a tutor to pass in Feb. It was helpful enough to raise my score about 20 points.

You will pass in July

[Hooyah]

Actually, if anyone is taking the Florida Bar Exam in July, Florida Portion and/or MBE, feel free to message me.

I’m happy to have a conference call (for free obviously) with anyone who would like advice on preparing for the exam.

I figure this will be my way of paying it forward, for the previous posters who gave advice to me and helped me to move forward past this part of life.

The test is absolutely able to be conquered by anyone.

[johngotti]

Gotti, what were your scores?

I used a tutor to pass in Feb. It was helpful enough to raise my score about 20 points.

You will pass in July

Essay 1: 38
Essay 2: 43
Essay 3: 33
FL Civ/Crim Pro: 16
BE: 14
Wills: 10

[allymariee19]

So I ended up passing MBE and I am officially done with the Bar forever!

I also have some tips and things I can share with anyone who needs any. I passed with a 138 and I passed FL with a 145 the first time I took it. I got scaled down 60 points which was insane. I would NOT recommend using Adaptibar as the questions are old and not equivalent to whats being tested. Everyone I know who has relied on that only has failed MBE. For those of you who love it, God Speed.

I would love to help anyone who needs it. Please reach out to me.

Also, have any of my fellow passers been sworn in? I still have to figure that out.

[Allegedly88]

So I ended up passing MBE and I am officially done with the Bar forever!

I also have some tips and things I can share with anyone who needs any. I passed with a 138 and I passed FL with a 145 the first time I took it. I got scaled down 60 points which was insane. I would NOT recommend using Adaptibar as the questions are old and not equivalent to whats being tested. Everyone I know who has relied on that only has failed MBE. For those of you who love it, God Speed.

I would love to help anyone who needs it. Please reach out to me.

Also, have any of my fellow passers been sworn in? I still have to figure that out.

Congrats!! What do you recommend for mbe? I used adapitbar and the questions were easier. I did see some repeats on the exam but the level of difficultly didnt match. Where can i get questions that are difficult like the bar?
I am a point from passing

[Anonymous User]

So I ended up passing MBE and I am officially done with the Bar forever!

I also have some tips and things I can share with anyone who needs any. I passed with a 138 and I passed FL with a 145 the first time I took it. I got scaled down 60 points which was insane. I would NOT recommend using Adaptibar as the questions are old and not equivalent to whats being tested. Everyone I know who has relied on that only has failed MBE. For those of you who love it, God Speed.

I would love to help anyone who needs it. Please reach out to me.

Also, have any of my fellow passers been sworn in? I still have to figure that out.

Congrats!! What do you recommend for mbe? I used adapitbar and the questions were easier. I did see some repeats on the exam but the level of difficultly didnt match. Where can i get questions that are difficult like the bar?
I am a point from passing

I know how frustrated you are. I used Kaplan this time around and I thought a lot of the questions were pretty difficult and when I got to the MBE I didn’t feel out of my element at all. Try to get your hands on the Kaplan MBE books. I did around 2800 questions and when I used Adaptibar the previous 2 times I took MBE I ended up failing. The answer choices on the actual exam are much more ambiguous and so are the question calls. I thought Kaplan did a good job with staying current with the exam now. I’m sure you could do the same with Barbri books as well.

[Hooyah]

Unfortunately, a lot of misinformation gets posted on here.

In my opinion Adaptibar is an amazing tool to help you pass.

If used in conjunction with a bar prep course (I.E., BarBri, Themis, Kaplan).

I personally used BarBri and Adaptibar for MBE.

If you use Adaptibar, and read the BarBri outlines, watch the videos, and watch the Adaptibar videos, you will notice your score go up each week.

If anyone is a couple points from passing, you certainly have the ability to add another 20 points to your score.

And to do that I would recommend hiring a tutor.

My tutor was in South Florida and was quite inexpensive. DM me if you need my tutor’s name.

Study hard, and be willing to accept that you may be better off with someone to help you with the studying process.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve taken the bar exam every year since July 2015. I just recently failed on my 6th attempt. On my second attempt I was 3 points short, on my 4th, 5 points short. On my 5th, I was off by more than 10. I’m still waiting for my score report.

I’ve employed a bar exam tutor before but was unsuccessful. The study plans were not conducive to my learning style.

I excelled in law school and have never really had a problem with text anxiety or stress. I’ve put the work in and keep coming up short.

As you can imagine, it’s quite disheartening to keep failing. However, I’m willing to fight the good fight again in July. My app is now stale and I have a small turn around time to get everything in.

I need advice, suggestions, bar exam prep ideas? I’ve heard of Grossman...anyone hired him and been successful? Any others?

Have you tried just focusing on 1 section?

Perhaps taking the full Barbri course? Not trying to be mean but maybe you just weren't meant to be a lawyer

This person’s negativity is part of everything wrong about the legal profession.

If you made it through law school, you can make it past the bar exam.

You just need to find the right tools to help you succeed.

And put in the time required to nail it.

[Anonymous User]

Unfortunately, a lot of misinformation gets posted on here.

In my opinion Adaptibar is an amazing tool to help you pass.

If used in conjunction with a bar prep course (I.E., BarBri, Themis, Kaplan).

I personally used BarBri and Adaptibar for MBE.

If you use Adaptibar, and read the BarBri outlines, watch the videos, and watch the Adaptibar videos, you will notice your score go up each week.

If anyone is a couple points from passing, you certainly have the ability to add another 20 points to your score.

And to do that I would recommend hiring a tutor.

My tutor was in South Florida and was quite inexpensive. DM me if you need my tutor’s name.

Study hard, and be willing to accept that you may be better off with someone to help you with the studying process.

I definitely agree about misinformation but from other people I know who keep consistently failing - the common denominator is relying on Adaptibar. Maybe my view is skewed but that’s just my opinion.

I definitely recommend using a full-fledged course, as you also said.

[JoeSeperac]

If you are considering a UBE state, there is no minimum MBE. For example, you can pass with a low MBE and high written or vice versa.

Thanks, Joe. But isn't it the case that the written component of the UBE is "scaled" to one's MBE score in some way, such that if you bomb the MBE, it then becomes difficult to pass on the strength of your written scores? Or is that just CA bar, and not the UBE?

I posted this elsewhere, but will post it here too. Basically, MBE raw scores are scaled to adjust for possible differences in average question difficulty across administrations of the exam. This scaling can result in a difference of as much as 10 scaled MBE points between administrations. I illustrate how raw MBE scores are converted to scale scores here: https://www.seperac.com/zcalc-mbe-febjuly.php

Next, written scores are scaled to the MBE average for that administration. The February exam itself is not more difficult, but the examinees generally score lower on the MBE which negatively affects the scale that is applied to arrive at a final score. For example, nationally, the average MBE scaled score on July exams (from 1974-2018) was 142 while the average MBE on February exams (from 1974-2018) was 136.5. For scaling, the lower the mean MBE, the lower the scale. According to NCBE, "caling the essays to the MBE is an essential step in ensuring that scores have a consistent meaning over time. When essay scores are not scaled to the MBE, they tend to remain about the same: for example, it is common for the average raw July essay score to be similar to the average February score even if the July examinees are known to be more knowledgeable on average than the February examinees. Using raw essay scores rather than scaled essay scores tends to provide an unintended advantage to some examinees and an unintended disadvantage to others." The Bar Examiner May 2005.

see http://seperac.com/pdf/740205_testing.pdf

The lowest MBE score from a passing examinee that I am aware of is 121.3. I have heard stories of examinees passing with MBEs as low as 118, but haven't seen proof of it. So passing with a low MBE can be done, but I don't see it often.

[jamie91]

If you are considering a UBE state, there is no minimum MBE. For example, you can pass with a low MBE and high written or vice versa.

Thanks, Joe. But isn't it the case that the written component of the UBE is "scaled" to one's MBE score in some way, such that if you bomb the MBE, it then becomes difficult to pass on the strength of your written scores? Or is that just CA bar, and not the UBE?

I posted this elsewhere, but will post it here too. Basically, MBE raw scores are scaled to adjust for possible differences in average question difficulty across administrations of the exam. This scaling can result in a difference of as much as 10 scaled MBE points between administrations. I illustrate how raw MBE scores are converted to scale scores here: https://www.seperac.com/zcalc-mbe-febjuly.php

Next, written scores are scaled to the MBE average for that administration. The February exam itself is not more difficult, but the examinees generally score lower on the MBE which negatively affects the scale that is applied to arrive at a final score. For example, nationally, the average MBE scaled score on July exams (from 1974-2018) was 142 while the average MBE on February exams (from 1974-2018) was 136.5. For scaling, the lower the mean MBE, the lower the scale. According to NCBE, "caling the essays to the MBE is an essential step in ensuring that scores have a consistent meaning over time. When essay scores are not scaled to the MBE, they tend to remain about the same: for example, it is common for the average raw July essay score to be similar to the average February score even if the July examinees are known to be more knowledgeable on average than the February examinees. Using raw essay scores rather than scaled essay scores tends to provide an unintended advantage to some examinees and an unintended disadvantage to others." The Bar Examiner May 2005.

see http://seperac.com/pdf/740205_testing.pdf

The lowest MBE score from a passing examinee that I am aware of is 121.3. I have heard stories of examinees passing with MBEs as low as 118, but haven't seen proof of it. So passing with a low MBE can be done, but I don't see it often.

Interesting.

[jamie91]

Unfortunately, a lot of misinformation gets posted on here.

In my opinion Adaptibar is an amazing tool to help you pass.

If used in conjunction with a bar prep course (I.E., BarBri, Themis, Kaplan).

I personally used BarBri and Adaptibar for MBE.

If you use Adaptibar, and read the BarBri outlines, watch the videos, and watch the Adaptibar videos, you will notice your score go up each week.

If anyone is a couple points from passing, you certainly have the ability to add another 20 points to your score.

And to do that I would recommend hiring a tutor.

My tutor was in South Florida and was quite inexpensive. DM me if you need my tutor’s name.

Study hard, and be willing to accept that you may be better off with someone to help you with the studying process.

I have recently made this account and am unable to DM. Would you please dm me the name of your tutor. Thank you.

[Allegedly88]

So I ended up passing MBE and I am officially done with the Bar forever!

I also have some tips and things I can share with anyone who needs any. I passed with a 138 and I passed FL with a 145 the first time I took it. I got scaled down 60 points which was insane. I would NOT recommend using Adaptibar as the questions are old and not equivalent to whats being tested. Everyone I know who has relied on that only has failed MBE. For those of you who love it, God Speed.

I would love to help anyone who needs it. Please reach out to me.

Also, have any of my fellow passers been sworn in? I still have to figure that out.

Congrats!! What do you recommend for mbe? I used adapitbar and the questions were easier. I did see some repeats on the exam but the level of difficultly didnt match. Where can i get questions that are difficult like the bar?
I am a point from passing

I know how frustrated you are. I used Kaplan this time around and I thought a lot of the questions were pretty difficult and when I got to the MBE I didn’t feel out of my element at all. Try to get your hands on the Kaplan MBE books. I did around 2800 questions and when I used Adaptibar the previous 2 times I took MBE I ended up failing. The answer choices on the actual exam are much more ambiguous and so are the question calls. I thought Kaplan did a good job with staying current with the exam now. I’m sure you could do the same with Barbri books as well.

What year are your kaplan mc books? Should i try to find a recent year book? Like 2018, 2019, 2020?

[Allegedly88]

I’ve taken the bar exam every year since July 2015. I just recently failed on my 6th attempt. On my second attempt I was 3 points short, on my 4th, 5 points short. On my 5th, I was off by more than 10. I’m still waiting for my score report.

I’ve employed a bar exam tutor before but was unsuccessful. The study plans were not conducive to my learning style.

I excelled in law school and have never really had a problem with text anxiety or stress. I’ve put the work in and keep coming up short.

As you can imagine, it’s quite disheartening to keep failing. However, I’m willing to fight the good fight again in July. My app is now stale and I have a small turn around time to get everything in.

I need advice, suggestions, bar exam prep ideas? I’ve heard of Grossman...anyone hired him and been successful? Any others?

Have you tried just focusing on 1 section?

Perhaps taking the full Barbri course? Not trying to be mean but maybe you just weren't meant to be a lawyer

This person’s negativity is part of everything wrong about the legal profession.

If you made it through law school, you can make it past the bar exam.

You just need to find the right tools to help you succeed.

And put in the time required to nail it.

I agree .. that person is discouraging. You're meant to do what you want to do. Might have to work a little harder than others but it doesn't mean you're not meant to do it - thats BS

[Hooyah]

Agreed! And thanks for your posts in the past, allegedly, they helped out a lot.

[Anonymous User]

So I ended up passing MBE and I am officially done with the Bar forever!

I also have some tips and things I can share with anyone who needs any. I passed with a 138 and I passed FL with a 145 the first time I took it. I got scaled down 60 points which was insane. I would NOT recommend using Adaptibar as the questions are old and not equivalent to whats being tested. Everyone I know who has relied on that only has failed MBE. For those of you who love it, God Speed.

I would love to help anyone who needs it. Please reach out to me.

Also, have any of my fellow passers been sworn in? I still have to figure that out.

Congrats!! What do you recommend for mbe? I used adapitbar and the questions were easier. I did see some repeats on the exam but the level of difficultly didnt match. Where can i get questions that are difficult like the bar?
I am a point from passing

I know how frustrated you are. I used Kaplan this time around and I thought a lot of the questions were pretty difficult and when I got to the MBE I didn’t feel out of my element at all. Try to get your hands on the Kaplan MBE books. I did around 2800 questions and when I used Adaptibar the previous 2 times I took MBE I ended up failing. The answer choices on the actual exam are much more ambiguous and so are the question calls. I thought Kaplan did a good job with staying current with the exam now. I’m sure you could do the same with Barbri books as well.

What year are your kaplan mc books? Should i try to find a recent year book? Like 2018, 2019, 2020?

My Kaplan books were 2019-2020, I would suggest those same years if you can find them. The MBE book with practice questions has them broken down by subtopic so definitely make sure you know all the highly tested areas down cold. You never want to give away the ones that will show up the most. After i did my daily studying i always did more MC on the highly tested areas. I’m sure a 2018-2019 set of books would be just as good. I also did 3 practice exams from kaplan under timed conditions.

[Hooyah]

Allegedly,

You're going to pass in July, I know it.

If you ever have any questions, or just want to chat, feel free to hit me up for advice.

Cheers.

[JustPass]

Congratulation to everyone that passed the bar exam. As some of you may have read my post. I passed both sections in July 2019 on my 4th attempt.
Don’t ever give up your dreams to pursue a career as an attorney! Each of you have what it takes to get over this hurdle in your lives. You will have to fight just as hard for your clients as you do now by getting prepared to take the next exam. Nothing is going to stop you from reaching your target. Look at yourself in the mirror every day and tell yourself,” I have to be 100% today, because there is no tomorrow! And do this until you leave the exam area on the next administration of the Florida Bar.

[mjpwhite]

Hi. Can you send me your tutor’s name? My account is new. Thanks.

Unfortunately, a lot of misinformation gets posted on here.

In my opinion Adaptibar is an amazing tool to help you pass.

If used in conjunction with a bar prep course (I.E., BarBri, Themis, Kaplan).

I personally used BarBri and Adaptibar for MBE.

If you use Adaptibar, and read the BarBri outlines, watch the videos, and watch the Adaptibar videos, you will notice your score go up each week.

If anyone is a couple points from passing, you certainly have the ability to add another 20 points to your score.

And to do that I would recommend hiring a tutor.

My tutor was in South Florida and was quite inexpensive. DM me if you need my tutor’s name.

Study hard, and be willing to accept that you may be better off with someone to help you with the studying process.

[Allegedly88]

If you are considering a UBE state, there is no minimum MBE. For example, you can pass with a low MBE and high written or vice versa.

Thanks, Joe. But isn't it the case that the written component of the UBE is "scaled" to one's MBE score in some way, such that if you bomb the MBE, it then becomes difficult to pass on the strength of your written scores? Or is that just CA bar, and not the UBE?

I posted this elsewhere, but will post it here too. Basically, MBE raw scores are scaled to adjust for possible differences in average question difficulty across administrations of the exam. This scaling can result in a difference of as much as 10 scaled MBE points between administrations. I illustrate how raw MBE scores are converted to scale scores here: https://www.seperac.com/zcalc-mbe-febjuly.php

Next, written scores are scaled to the MBE average for that administration. The February exam itself is not more difficult, but the examinees generally score lower on the MBE which negatively affects the scale that is applied to arrive at a final score. For example, nationally, the average MBE scaled score on July exams (from 1974-2018) was 142 while the average MBE on February exams (from 1974-2018) was 136.5. For scaling, the lower the mean MBE, the lower the scale. According to NCBE, "caling the essays to the MBE is an essential step in ensuring that scores have a consistent meaning over time. When essay scores are not scaled to the MBE, they tend to remain about the same: for example, it is common for the average raw July essay score to be similar to the average February score even if the July examinees are known to be more knowledgeable on average than the February examinees. Using raw essay scores rather than scaled essay scores tends to provide an unintended advantage to some examinees and an unintended disadvantage to others." The Bar Examiner May 2005.

see http://seperac.com/pdf/740205_testing.pdf

The lowest MBE score from a passing examinee that I am aware of is 121.3. I have heard stories of examinees passing with MBEs as low as 118, but haven't seen proof of it. So passing with a low MBE can be done, but I don't see it often.

Thanks Joe. I got a 135 mbe in florida. Failed by a point.

I am considering a UBE state - what state would you suggest as far as easier/high pass rate??

If Florida doesnt work out ill take any state to be a lawyer.

[Allegedly88]

Allegedly,

You're going to pass in July, I know it.

If you ever have any questions, or just want to chat, feel free to hit me up for advice.

Cheers.

Thank you i hope so. It just worries me bc its a different test, different questions, different curve. And since half the nation moved or will likely move their exam to sept i wonder how that affects the national curve - so grading and curving might be a shit show again.

[johngotti]

Unfortunately, a lot of misinformation gets posted on here.

In my opinion Adaptibar is an amazing tool to help you pass.

If used in conjunction with a bar prep course (I.E., BarBri, Themis, Kaplan).

I personally used BarBri and Adaptibar for MBE.

If you use Adaptibar, and read the BarBri outlines, watch the videos, and watch the Adaptibar videos, you will notice your score go up each week.

If anyone is a couple points from passing, you certainly have the ability to add another 20 points to your score.

And to do that I would recommend hiring a tutor.

My tutor was in South Florida and was quite inexpensive. DM me if you need my tutor’s name.

Study hard, and be willing to accept that you may be better off with someone to help you with the studying process.

I definitely agree about misinformation but from other people I know who keep consistently failing - the common denominator is relying on Adaptibar. Maybe my view is skewed but that’s just my opinion.

I definitely recommend using a full-fledged course, as you also said.

To an extent there's a degree of truth in both statements. The MBE questions in 2020 use the same format and style as previous questions from 10-20 years ago. However, most are two to three degrees more difficult than what's on adapitbar. Compared to the MBE nowadays there are way too many adaptibar questions that something like 80% of people get right within 20 seconds. You can be 60%+ consistently on adaptibar using imperfect reasoning, that's not gonna happen on the MBE when the questions are tougher.

[enriquepineiro]

Failed

I really hate myself

Same. I think us retakers are at a disadvantage .. that was my 4th try at the mbe. My entire class has passed by now. This isnt fair. I dont know if i want to take this again.

Yeah 4th time here as well. I know it's easier to pass the July one but who knows if that's even gonna happen at this point plus I'm years out of actual school. The loans suck and I just feel like a complete failure in life.

I feel you. I passed FL portion on the first try but still trying to fight this MBE. I did over 4,500 questions on Adaptibar. At this point, I do not know what to do.

Me too I did thousands of questions and my average was above 70%.
I read that only 421 people passed out of almost 2,000 takers. That is incredibly low.
How many times have you taken the MBE?

FL. Once; MBE 3 times. I am hiring a tutor. Maybe is something I am not seeing. I also worked full time for all bar takes. Maybe that has to do with something...