Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[hogfan1991]

The graded essays feel so arbitrary at times. I had a previous essay, believe it was property/contracts where I was completely stumped on one of the questions within the essay, yet still got a 75%. On graded essay 5, I had everything correct, but missed the crime of "disorderly conduct" to be charged with. You were expected to pull 3 crimes, I think agg assault, reckless endangerment, disorderly conduct, so it was the lesser of the 3, but I got docked 5 points for missing it out of a total of 9. Seemed pretty harsh, idk. Still ended up with a 75%, which would be great on test day obv, but feels very arbitrary considering I had previous questions where I completely whiffed and ended up w/the same grade.

Rant over, just wondering if anyone else got this feeling or I'm just being too salty over it

I was told that a "75/85" or a 88% is needed to pass a MEE question.

[unidentifiable]

How are people keeping track of all these Uniform codes in Family Law and Wills? It's so overwhelming.

i'm not. idgaf if a question says "This jurisdiction follows the UCCJEA." I just apply what I know and hope for the best.

Thankfully in my Dom Rel class we had to learn UIFSA and the UCCJEA and in Wills we learned the distinctions that the MPC had. I wasn't thrilled at the time, but will likely come in handy on the bar exam.

able to give a super quick tldr of those?

[PotLuck]

Just got a 49% on ME #2. I feel so defeated god damn. 2 1/2 weeks out and i cant even get half of the questions right.

I got 51% on ME 1 and 49% on ME 2. I kicked it into gear, started making flash cards to summarize each rule statement for multiple choice questions, review every flash card before doing a PQ set, and was able to improve to 73% on the simulated MBE (146/200). I hand wrote the flashcards because it personally helps me. Maybe flash cards will help you like they helped me.

Thanks for the advice. Did you go through your outline and just highlight the big picture stuff or did you only make cards for questions you missed?

[Nebby]

Just got a 49% on ME #2. I feel so defeated god damn. 2 1/2 weeks out and i cant even get half of the questions right.

I got 51% on ME 1 and 49% on ME 2. I kicked it into gear, started making flash cards to summarize each rule statement for multiple choice questions, review every flash card before doing a PQ set, and was able to improve to 73% on the simulated MBE (146/200). I hand wrote the flashcards because it personally helps me. Maybe flash cards will help you like they helped me.

Thanks for the advice. Did you go through your outline and just highlight the big picture stuff or did you only make cards for questions you missed?

I make flashcards for the questions I miss. I don't see the point in making flash cards for things I don't miss, since presumably that means I know them well enough already to not need flash cards. I do not have a flash card that tells me a common law contract modification requires consideration, for example.

[Nebby]

I'm honestly amazed. I have done 257 civ pro questions and am still coming across concepts that I have yet to see. On a Civ Pro only practice set today I came across my first question that has to do with the time limit on filing an answer following a request for waiver of service (it's 60 days after the waiver was sent, if the waiver is accepted fyi)

Also I am generally kinda shocked that Civ Pro is my lowest subject. I started out bad in Evidence, which is also rule based, but have greatly improved over the period of study. Civ Pro, also rule based, has consistently been mediocre and I have not noticed a drastic uptick in performance like I did with evidence

Like, does Civ Pro literally have SO MANY testable concepts that you can't even get through all of them in 250 questions? Seems kinda absurd that I could be this deep into study and still come across a particular issue that has yet to be covered previously by any other question

[hogfan1991]

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

you need to work harder. it's only 2.5 more weeks

I'm with this guy. You are not going to burn yourself out by studying more than 5 hours a day. No one wishes they had studied less for the bar. A lot of people wish they had studied more.

Thanks for the advice. The reality is, it's not a law school exam. I'm not competing with any of you. I hope you all score higher than me, I just want to pass. If you study 12 hours a day and get a super high score, and I get a much lower score and still pass, our results are the same. You won't get a better job then me on the basis of your bar score, you won't get more sophisticated clients on the basis of your bar score, you won't get paid more on the basis of your bar score. There mere fact that you dedicated every waking hour to get the best possible score is really a fruitless effort.

This is my effort: Do enough to pass, and not a minute more. If I can consistently get between 60-65% on Adaptibar and Themis, and I'm able to spot most of the issues and have a somewhat coherent discussion about it, I'll pass.

And you are right on one thing, nobody ever complained that they studied too much. The reason is if you pass, you assume that you studied the right amount. The people that complained that they did not study enough when they failed would not be complaining had they passed. The people that fail usually try to figure out why, and one of those reasons is not enough study. I would bet them that it wasn't so much the amount as it was the quality.

Finally, the amount of studying you put in does not directly correlate with success. Some parts are luck: The questions fall in topics you know reasonably well, essays fall in your moderate to strong areas. The other part is quality of study. The 4-6 hours I put in consist of heavy understanding of a topic and tons of practice questions. I have done 1,300 PQ on Adaptibar, and 1318 on Themis, with almost a full month left of preparation.

If you are putting in 12 hours or more of study time, God bless you. Like I said, I hope you all score higher than me. I'm in it to pass, nothing more.

Many of these people studying 12 hours a day are on medication and have been for the past three years of law school. No way people are actually focused 12 hours a day without some kind of drug. The rest of us who are sober are content doing the bare minimum to pass and not giving In to the pharmaceutical industry

THIS x100. Lol. When I hit about 5-6 hours of hard time reading, writing, and taking practice questions I am drained. I might "spend" 8-10 hours on "studying for the bar" but I have plenty of mental breaks scheduled in. Don't overdo it everyone. Just over 2 weeks left. We got this!

[hogfan1991]

How are people keeping track of all these Uniform codes in Family Law and Wills? It's so overwhelming.

i'm not. idgaf if a question says "This jurisdiction follows the UCCJEA." I just apply what I know and hope for the best.

Thankfully in my Dom Rel class we had to learn UIFSA and the UCCJEA and in Wills we learned the distinctions that the MPC had. I wasn't thrilled at the time, but will likely come in handy on the bar exam.

able to give a super quick tldr of those?

This is what I have in my Dom Rel cheet sheet of 1 page front/back I was able to take in to the exam. Just remember UIFSA is ONLY for support and UCCJEA to other issues such as visitation. Hope that helps. Also the FRO on these is pretty helpful.

UIFSA – if both move, who is filing to change? If only one move – stays in original state – original/exclusive continues.
UCCJEA – non-support; 6 months previous – original and exclusive. Court can give up jxn.

[ndp1234]

I'm going to be so prepared if an auction question shows up on the exam. Another one showed up in conjunction with tort liability.

[unidentifiable]

How are people keeping track of all these Uniform codes in Family Law and Wills? It's so overwhelming.

i'm not. idgaf if a question says "This jurisdiction follows the UCCJEA." I just apply what I know and hope for the best.

Thankfully in my Dom Rel class we had to learn UIFSA and the UCCJEA and in Wills we learned the distinctions that the MPC had. I wasn't thrilled at the time, but will likely come in handy on the bar exam.

able to give a super quick tldr of those?

This is what I have in my Dom Rel cheet sheet of 1 page front/back I was able to take in to the exam. Just remember UIFSA is ONLY for support and UCCJEA to other issues such as visitation. Hope that helps. Also the FRO on these is pretty helpful.

UIFSA – if both move, who is filing to change? If only one move – stays in original state – original/exclusive continues.
UCCJEA – non-support; 6 months previous – original and exclusive. Court can give up jxn.

gracias

[ultimolugar]

I'm going to be so prepared if an auction question shows up on the exam. Another one showed up in conjunction with tort liability.

I lol'd.

[hdivine]

Has anybody scored five or six on the structure of their graded essays? I consistently score four, but I'm following what they suggested. If you're scoring more, do you mind posting a sample?

[ChocolateTruffle]

Has anybody scored five or six on the structure of their graded essays? I consistently score four, but I'm following what they suggested. If you're scoring more, do you mind posting a sample?

Not sure if this will be helpful as we might have different graders! But here's one that I scored an 8 on for Structure and an 8 overall.

1. A jury could find that Adam is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. To be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, one must have engaged in conduct that was reckless or grossly negligent that resulted in a death. The state does not recognize the so-called "unlawful act" involuntary manslaughter. Thus, the defendant need not have committed a crime that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony. It is enough that the defendant engaged in reckless or grossly negligent behavior. Here, Adam did engage in reckless and grossly negligent behavior. Having the intent to throw marbles onto a road to see and watch cars potentially slip on the marbles is reckless. It is foreseeable that a person could die from such a reckless activity, and someone did die as a result of Adam's reckless behavior. Though one might argue that it was not foreseeable that a child not wearing her seatbelt would be thrown from a car and killed, it is foreseeable that a serious accident could occur as a result of the marbles and that someone would die. Thus, even though the child was in violation of state law by not wearing a seatbelt, it is foreseeable that someone could die, and the child's illegal act of not wearing a seatbelt does not negate Adam's crime. Thus, a jury could properly find that Adam is guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

2. If a jury does find that Adam is guilty of involuntary manslaughter, a jury could properly find that Bob is guilty of involuntary manslaughter as an accomplice. To be found guilty as an accomplice, the accomplice must aid or encourage the principal to commit the crime, with the intent for the crime to be committed. An accomplice is liable for any foreseeable crimes committed by the principal. Though Bob said it was a stupid idea to throw marbles onto a road, and it is unclear whether he had the requisite intent needed to find him liable as an accomplice, he did assist the principal, Adam, in completing the crime. He drove Adam to the location to drop the marbles and he waited with Adam for 20 minutes to see if anything would happen. These acts (driving Adam to the site and waiting with him) could be found by a jury to be encouragement of the criminal act. Had Bob simply driven Adam and left him at the site to drop marbles and not waited for him, he would not have been found to be an accomplice, as his act of simply driving Adam could not be seen as encouragement. But as Bob waited with Adam to see if any cars would crash as a result of the marbles on the road, Bob is guilty of the crime committed by the principal, Adam, as well because of his encouragement of Adam, and a jury could properly find Bob is guilty of involuntary manslaughter as an accomplice.

[Robb]

They must do different scoring systems because the max you can get on any of mine is 6.

[Nebby]

They must do different scoring systems because the max you can get on any of mine is 6.

Yeah it's based on what your state does. Some do 5, some 6, some 8, etc.

[Rahviveh]

Does the exception to the mailbox rule for options also apply to the firm offer rule?

[ultimolugar]

Does anyone have any of those "bar prediction" website bookmarked? Would like to see what the pontificators think will be on the essay portion of the Florida Bar Exam.

[ndp1234]

Does the exception to the mailbox rule for options also apply to the firm offer rule?

Presumably so, for as long as the offer is irrevocable. From the Themis outline:

"The mailbox rule does not apply if the offer is irrevocable, as is the case with an option contract, which requires that the acceptance be received by the offeror before the offer expires. Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 63(b), cmt. f "

I guess the mailbox rule is there to protect the offeree from offerors revoking at will when the offerree has already made a commitment to accept the offer. That threat of revocation that the mailbox rule is meant to protect is no longer there if the offer is irrevocable.

[Nebby]

Does the exception to the mailbox rule for options also apply to the firm offer rule?

Yep

[Rahviveh]

Do attempted enumerated felonies merge into felony murder? (Sorry for being greedy).

[blach0987]

What is the difference between equitable servitudes and covenants?? Thanks in advance!!!

[1down1togo]

What is the difference between equitable servitudes and covenants?? Thanks in advance!!!

They are the same thing. The difference is the remedy and what is required for it to run.


If you are trying to seek an equitable remedy- its an equitable servitude.
If you are trying to seek damages- its a covenant.

To run with the land, covenants require
Touch and Concern
Writing
Intent to run
Notice

and

Privity

For equitable servitudes to run with the land, all the same things are required, EXCEPT:
No privity requirement.

At least that's my understanding. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[ndp1234]

What is the difference between equitable servitudes and covenants?? Thanks in advance!!!

Equitable servitudes have no privity requirement, but all other requirements for covenants need to be met.

Equitable servitudes also can only be used for equitable relief and are only subject to equitable defenses (laches, unclean hands, etc.)

[Nebby]

Do attempted enumerated felonies merge into felony murder? (Sorry for being greedy).

No. You can't have felony murder when the underlying felony was an attempt. You need to actually commit robbery/rape/etc. for felony murder.

[hirkaismyname]

What is the difference between equitable servitudes and covenants?? Thanks in advance!!!

They are the same thing. The difference is the remedy and what is required for it to run.


If you are trying to seek an equitable remedy- its an equitable servitude.
If you are trying to seek damages- its a covenant.

To run with the land, covenants require
Touch and Concern
Writing
Intent to run
Notice

and

Privity

For equitable servitudes to run with the land, all the same things are required, EXCEPT:
No privity requirement.

At least that's my understanding. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Isn't there something dealing with horizontal versus vertical privity in this area of law? I'm thinking the difference btw in gross vs. run with land?

[Nebby]

What is the difference between equitable servitudes and covenants?? Thanks in advance!!!

They are the same thing. The difference is the remedy and what is required for it to run.


If you are trying to seek an equitable remedy- its an equitable servitude.
If you are trying to seek damages- its a covenant.

To run with the land, covenants require
Touch and Concern
Writing
Intent to run
Notice

and

Privity

For equitable servitudes to run with the land, all the same things are required, EXCEPT:
No privity requirement.

At least that's my understanding. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Isn't there something dealing with horizontal versus vertical privity in this area of law? I'm thinking the difference btw in gross vs. run with land?

For the burden to run in a covenant, you need both horizontal and vertical privity. For a burden to run in an equitable servitude, you only need horizontal privity