Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[blach0987]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

I've been doing like 6-8 hours a day with limited breaks. I've been doing about that since mid-May with limited days off in between. I'm basically following the schedule Themis laid out and am at 76%. However, I haven't really been doing much supplemental stuff, but I just got critical pass cards for crunch time. I'm thinking I'll up it to, at most 10 hours a day, in the weeks to come. 12 hours a day seems excessive, especially if you're anywhere near on schedule.

I started late because my family was here from abroad and I did not start until early June so I have been playing catch up this whole time. What is this critical pass cards? I think I did not start following this thread to read about it. I use sporcle to memorize which is also time consuming.

[BarPreppin'12]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

[blach0987]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

Well, I still take break for lunch (30 minutes) and then dinner usually an hour. And then there are random breaks throughout the day surfing the internet, etc. But I started late, so I've been super worried about catching up.

[livinlaw]

The graded essays feel so arbitrary at times. I had a previous essay, believe it was property/contracts where I was completely stumped on one of the questions within the essay, yet still got a 75%. On graded essay 5, I had everything correct, but missed the crime of "disorderly conduct" to be charged with. You were expected to pull 3 crimes, I think agg assault, reckless endangerment, disorderly conduct, so it was the lesser of the 3, but I got docked 5 points for missing it out of a total of 9. Seemed pretty harsh, idk. Still ended up with a 75%, which would be great on test day obv, but feels very arbitrary considering I had previous questions where I completely whiffed and ended up w/the same grade.

Rant over, just wondering if anyone else got this feeling or I'm just being too salty over it

lol i have never gotten higher than a 55 on any of my essays (lowest score 28), and I do think they're totally arbitrary in grading, but still, would be super pumped if I was pulling 75s

[WinSome]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

I've been doing like 6-8 hours a day with limited breaks. I've been doing about that since mid-May with limited days off in between. I'm basically following the schedule Themis laid out and am at 76%. However, I haven't really been doing much supplemental stuff, but I just got critical pass cards for crunch time. I'm thinking I'll up it to, at most 10 hours a day, in the weeks to come. 12 hours a day seems excessive, especially if you're anywhere near on schedule.

I started late because my family was here from abroad and I did not start until early June so I have been playing catch up this whole time. What is this critical pass cards? I think I did not start following this thread to read about it. I use sporcle to memorize which is also time consuming.

Critical Pass cards are premade flashcards for all the MBE subject. I like flashcards but am too lazy to make them myself, so they work well for me. Additionally, half of each card is blank so you can write state distinctions.

Have you taken your practice MBE yet? If you scored decently, you really shouldn't need 12 hours a day. You don't want to burn yourself out.

[blach0987]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

I've been doing like 6-8 hours a day with limited breaks. I've been doing about that since mid-May with limited days off in between. I'm basically following the schedule Themis laid out and am at 76%. However, I haven't really been doing much supplemental stuff, but I just got critical pass cards for crunch time. I'm thinking I'll up it to, at most 10 hours a day, in the weeks to come. 12 hours a day seems excessive, especially if you're anywhere near on schedule.

I started late because my family was here from abroad and I did not start until early June so I have been playing catch up this whole time. What is this critical pass cards? I think I did not start following this thread to read about it. I use sporcle to memorize which is also time consuming.

Critical Pass cards are premade flashcards for all the MBE subject. I like flashcards but am too lazy to make them myself, so they work well for me. Additionally, half of each card is blank so you can write state distinctions.

Have you taken your practice MBE yet? If you scored decently, you really shouldn't need 12 hours a day. You don't want to burn yourself out.

Yes, took the MBE this week and only got about half correct so I am hoping it will come together soon!!!!

[1down1togo]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

5 hours is all you can do? How are you gonna work 8 hours a day? Or, more realistically for an attorney, 10 hours a day?

[Rahviveh]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

5 hours is all you can do? How are you gonna work 8 hours a day? Or, more realistically for an attorney, 10 hours a day?

A lot of being an attorney is busy work and mindless drone stuff. It's not using your brain for hours upon hours, trying to learn and decipher complicated rules.

At least that's what I'm hoping because I can't do more than 6-7 hours of bar study either.

[Easy-E]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

I've been doing like 6-8 hours a day with limited breaks. I've been doing about that since mid-May with limited days off in between. I'm basically following the schedule Themis laid out and am at 76%. However, I haven't really been doing much supplemental stuff, but I just got critical pass cards for crunch time. I'm thinking I'll up it to, at most 10 hours a day, in the weeks to come. 12 hours a day seems excessive, especially if you're anywhere near on schedule.

I started late because my family was here from abroad and I did not start until early June so I have been playing catch up this whole time. What is this critical pass cards? I think I did not start following this thread to read about it. I use sporcle to memorize which is also time consuming.

Wait is there bar review stuff on sporcle??

[WinSome]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

I've been doing like 6-8 hours a day with limited breaks. I've been doing about that since mid-May with limited days off in between. I'm basically following the schedule Themis laid out and am at 76%. However, I haven't really been doing much supplemental stuff, but I just got critical pass cards for crunch time. I'm thinking I'll up it to, at most 10 hours a day, in the weeks to come. 12 hours a day seems excessive, especially if you're anywhere near on schedule.

I started late because my family was here from abroad and I did not start until early June so I have been playing catch up this whole time. What is this critical pass cards? I think I did not start following this thread to read about it. I use sporcle to memorize which is also time consuming.

Wait is there bar review stuff on sporcle??

Are you telling me you haven't taken the top 7 most commonly tested subjects on the MBE quiz? Hint: Civ Pro is last.

[blach0987]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

I've been doing like 6-8 hours a day with limited breaks. I've been doing about that since mid-May with limited days off in between. I'm basically following the schedule Themis laid out and am at 76%. However, I haven't really been doing much supplemental stuff, but I just got critical pass cards for crunch time. I'm thinking I'll up it to, at most 10 hours a day, in the weeks to come. 12 hours a day seems excessive, especially if you're anywhere near on schedule.

I started late because my family was here from abroad and I did not start until early June so I have been playing catch up this whole time. What is this critical pass cards? I think I did not start following this thread to read about it. I use sporcle to memorize which is also time consuming.

Wait is there bar review stuff on sporcle??

Are you telling me you haven't taken the top 7 most commonly tested subjects on the MBE quiz? Hint: Civ Pro is last.

No, in 1L I started to make my own quiz on sporcle to memorize stuff (elements of torts, etc) and I have been making the same ones on sporcle myself. You can make your own sporcle there and then just practice it yourself. BUT its been extremely time consuming so I am not sure if its the best approach for the bar exam where you have way more information compared to one semester of law school.

[Vantwins]

Themis keeps giving me a torts question about a husband feeding his pregnant vegetarian wife meat and I keep getting it wrong!

[1down1togo]

Themis keeps giving me a torts question about a husband feeding his pregnant vegetarian wife meat and I keep getting it wrong!

haha that's oddly specific. I recall something like that? Maybe something about IIED and pregnant people?

[BarPreppin'12]

Speaking of focusing and such, how many hours are you guys putting in now? I average about 12 hours during the week but maybe I should increase as we get closer.

Edit to say that it includes breaks!

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

5 hours is all you can do? How are you gonna work 8 hours a day? Or, more realistically for an attorney, 10 hours a day?

A lot of being an attorney is busy work and mindless drone stuff. It's not using your brain for hours upon hours, trying to learn and decipher complicated rules.

At least that's what I'm hoping because I can't do more than 6-7 hours of bar study either.

This is true. Also, when I worked as a CLI or in a clinic, I would put in many hours. I find the topic interesting, or I am working towards a cause to help someone. With this bar prep thing, it sometimes feels like you are a hamster running around on a wheel. You read, you do practice essays and problems, and you feel like you know it when you do well. You do another set and you suck. If torts was your best set on 1 problem set, it could be your worst on another, depending on what they ask and how they ask it.

You are never truly prepared, and are tested on 19 subjects where anything is fair game. It's not like a prof is saying, "We didn't cover this, so don't expect to be tested on it." Everything is fair game. So, I put in what I can and pray for the best.

[Nebby]

Themis keeps giving me a torts question about a husband feeding his pregnant vegetarian wife meat and I keep getting it wrong!

haha that's oddly specific. I recall something like that? Maybe something about IIED and pregnant people?

I missed that question and learned that the mental state can be either intentional conduct that causes distress OR reckless disregard for the likelihood of the conduct causing distress (the pregnant vegetarian example)

IIED is a little misleading since it can be proved by reckless conduct (reckless infliction of emotional distress!)

[mu13ski]

For the milestone exams such as the simulated MBE, does Themis provide a "scaled" score or just raw? Just saw that Barbri provides a scaled score to their takers.

[unidentifiable]

For the milestone exams such as the simulated MBE, does Themis provide a "scaled" score or just raw? Just saw that Barbri provides a scaled score to their takers.

Unsure. But i did some internet scouring about this, and it seems like adding 12-15 points to your raw score will give you a ballpark scaled score. Take this information with the largest grain of salt you can imagine.

[BarPreppin'12]

For the milestone exams such as the simulated MBE, does Themis provide a "scaled" score or just raw? Just saw that Barbri provides a scaled score to their takers.

Unsure. But i did some internet scouring about this, and it seems like adding 12-15 points to your raw score will give you a ballpark scaled score. Take this information with the largest grain of salt you can imagine.

Nop, themis does not provide a scaled score, and it's a shame because a percentile score is useless for Bar Exam purposes. The 12-15 point bump is a general bump that says that on the bar exam, you are likely to score 12-15 points higher than on your Simulated. I don't know how accurate that is, but I can tell you that each bar exam is either scaled up or down. It could be by 12 points, it could be by 50 points, depending on the difficulty of the test in relation to bar exams in the past.

Without an actual scaled score, the simulated test is as useful as the mixed MBE PQ. In that you can aim for a goal, a % correct, but that really tells you noting. Like I said in a previous post: Running like a hamster in a wheel.

I think what themis really wanted to do was to prepare our endurance more than provide an actual, "How would you do if you took the bar exam today."

[Near]

Confused about simulated mbe Q#102.

[+] Spoiler

If what matters for right of counsel purposes is whether the actual sentence is incarceration, and not whether a sentence of incarceration was possible, then you don't know whether there's been a violation until the sentence is given? I thought the right to counsel triggered when criminal proceedings were brought?

[ultimolugar]

For the milestone exams such as the simulated MBE, does Themis provide a "scaled" score or just raw? Just saw that Barbri provides a scaled score to their takers.

Unsure. But i did some internet scouring about this, and it seems like adding 12-15 points to your raw score will give you a ballpark scaled score. Take this information with the largest grain of salt you can imagine.

Nop, themis does not provide a scaled score, and it's a shame because a percentile score is useless for Bar Exam purposes. The 12-15 point bump is a general bump that says that on the bar exam, you are likely to score 12-15 points higher than on your Simulated. I don't know how accurate that is, but I can tell you that each bar exam is either scaled up or down. It could be by 12 points, it could be by 50 points, depending on the difficulty of the test in relation to bar exams in the past.

Without an actual scaled score, the simulated test is as useful as the mixed MBE PQ. In that you can aim for a goal, a % correct, but that really tells you noting. Like I said in a previous post: Running like a hamster in a wheel.

I think what themis really wanted to do was to prepare our endurance more than provide an actual, "How would you do if you took the bar exam today."

Yeah, I saw that on that excel sheet that someone posted earlier that some people scored much higher on the actual bar exam, which is great. I personally used it as a guide to see where I scored raw relative to July 2015 takers and how they performed on the exam to give me an idea of what I may be able to expect on test day. But it really is a crapshoot as all others here have alluded.

[BarPreppin'12]

Confused about simulated mbe Q#102.

[+] Spoiler

If what matters for right of counsel purposes is whether the actual sentence is incarceration, and not whether a sentence of incarceration was possible, then you don't know whether there's been a violation until the sentence is given? I thought the right to counsel triggered when criminal proceedings were brought?

The right of counsel can be invoked by the 5th Amendment when a person is placed in police custody. It attaches automatically under the 6th Amendment if the defendant is charged with a crime and the prosecution is seeking a jail sentence. In dependency proceedings, there is a right to counsel under the 6th Amendment (does not need a jail sentence).

For example, if you have an indigent defendant, and he has been indicted by an information or an actual indictment, his 6th Amendment right attaches and he is entitled to a lawyer. Now, if during calendar call, the prosecution says, "The State in this case does not seek a jail sentence and ask for defendant's Public Defender to be dismissed." The court must dismiss the public defender because the State is not seeking a jail sentence.

I hope that helps

[Virindi]

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

you need to work harder. it's only 2.5 more weeks

[ndp1234]

For the milestone exams such as the simulated MBE, does Themis provide a "scaled" score or just raw? Just saw that Barbri provides a scaled score to their takers.

I used this calculator to figure it out: http://www.seperac.com/zcalc-ube-j16.php

I just entered random scaled scores until I got the right raw score. Imperfect, but useful in figuring out how what my scaled score would be and how I would fare with mediocre essays.

Edit - I'm in NY so that's why I'm using UBE calculator. There may be another one for whatever state you're taking.

[1down1togo]

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

you need to work harder. it's only 2.5 more weeks

I'm with this guy. You are not going to burn yourself out by studying more than 5 hours a day. No one wishes they had studied less for the bar. A lot of people wish they had studied more.

[ArtistOfManliness]

12 hours?? How do you do that? I can barely put in 5. Yesterday I put in 2 because I decided to go on a date. I took 4th of July off to celebrate our independence from the Brittish! When I put in work, I focus without interruption, but I couldn't do that for 12 whole hours. You're gonna burn yourself out, amigo.

you need to work harder. it's only 2.5 more weeks

I'm with this guy. You are not going to burn yourself out by studying more than 5 hours a day. No one wishes they had studied less for the bar. A lot of people wish they had studied more.

False. Literally everyone I know wishes they had studied less.