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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Law-So-Hard » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:03 am

Last edited by Law-So-Hard on Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by a male human » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:07 am

Video description: Third time is a charm.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by camelcrema » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:25 am

a male human wrote:
Video description: Third time is a charm.
Godammit, a male human, you're supposed to be the inspirational voice in here.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by a male human » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:09 am

I just thought that was specifically appropriate in an inappropriate way. Couldn't help myself!

Whatever happens happens, nothing to do but see what happens :)

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by jarofsoup » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:04 am

Binge drink alone is not on this list

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by CBXfail » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:26 am

I'm actually kind of looking forward to getting rolling again if/when I fail. My current job gives me enough time on nights and weekends to study a little bit, and I think I'd retake in July just to make sure I can do an even more thorough job prepping the second time around. Hopefully those bastards at the NCBE will have managed to scale the MBE properly next year too. Anything is better than this absurd three month waiting period.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by 2oldfts » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:50 pm

"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Carryon » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:21 pm

2oldfts wrote:"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades
Baressays has the scores for the essays. They range from 50 to 85, since a person who failed may do well on this essay but bad on the rest of the essays. I don't think that they were graded more harshly, but the differences between first and 2nd reads lead me to think that the grading is a little subjective.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by MBAtoJD » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:15 pm

2oldfts wrote:"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades
Why is it so hard to believe a guy who was hired and probably paid to give a presentation may lie or embellish the truth? Haven't you heard of tutors who make things up so that you feel you need them to pass? This guy put in charge of improving passage rates, what are his credentials? Was he a former/current Bar grader? Is he a tutor? What proof does he have?

Until the Bar graders publishes official score ranges, everything is speculation.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by 2oldfts » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:22 pm

MBAtoJD wrote:
2oldfts wrote:"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades
Why is it so hard to believe a guy who was hired and probably paid to give a presentation may lie or embellish the truth? Haven't you heard of tutors who make things up so that you feel you need them to pass? This guy put in charge of improving passage rates, what are his credentials? Was he a former/current Bar grader? Is he a tutor? What proof does he have?

Until the Bar graders publishes official score ranges, everything is speculation.
how would suggesting that you can write a clearly failing essay and get a 65 work in his favor to convince you that you need him? Seems to me the people telling you have to write a damn near perfect essay to get a 65 are the ones trying to convince you you need them. As far as his credentials you can look up Dean F

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by CALawGirl » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:23 pm

Carryon wrote:" but the differences between first and 2nd reads lead me to think that the grading is a little subjective.
No sh*t!

My Feb PR Score:
1st Read = 70; 2nd Read = 55; Operant Grade = 70

How the hell do you go from 70 to 50 then back to 70???? :roll:

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by MBAtoJD » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:28 pm

2oldfts wrote:
MBAtoJD wrote:
2oldfts wrote:"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades
Why is it so hard to believe a guy who was hired and probably paid to give a presentation may lie or embellish the truth? Haven't you heard of tutors who make things up so that you feel you need them to pass? This guy put in charge of improving passage rates, what are his credentials? Was he a former/current Bar grader? Is he a tutor? What proof does he have?

Until the Bar graders publishes official score ranges, everything is speculation.
how would suggesting that you can write a clearly failing essay and get a 65 work in his favor to convince you that you need him? Seems to me the people telling you have to write a damn near perfect essay to get a 65 are the ones trying to convince you you need them. As far as his credentials you can look up Dean F
"Dear students, 65 is a failing essay score. Your score needs to be 75 to pass. So you better study 23 hours a day. I know what you need to do to get your score into 75 to ensure you pass. In fact, that is why I am here; hired by your school to get your scores up to the passing score of 75. All those idiots telling you all you need is 65 to pass have been lying to you."

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Carryon » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:50 pm

CALawGirl wrote:
Carryon wrote:" but the differences between first and 2nd reads lead me to think that the grading is a little subjective.
No sh*t!

My Feb PR Score:
1st Read = 70; 2nd Read = 55; Operant Grade = 70

How the hell do you go from 70 to 50 then back to 70???? :roll:
Wow, I'll say, looks like the 55 is an outlier.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Law-So-Hard » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:51 pm

FWIW the Barbri essay instructor emphasized how important it was to "spot the issues" and IRAC and how even very poor essays could yield a 60-65. I also used Baressays.com to look at essays from 50-80 and the main takeaway was thoroughly parsing out IRAC and getting the issues -- same as Barbri said.

OTOH I've heard the grades can be really subjective too.

*kanye shrug*

2 more days :shock:

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by 2oldfts » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:56 pm

MBAtoJD wrote:
2oldfts wrote:
MBAtoJD wrote:
2oldfts wrote:"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades
Why is it so hard to believe a guy who was hired and probably paid to give a presentation may lie or embellish the truth? Haven't you heard of tutors who make things up so that you feel you need them to pass? This guy put in charge of improving passage rates, what are his credentials? Was he a former/current Bar grader? Is he a tutor? What proof does he have?

Until the Bar graders publishes official score ranges, everything is speculation.
how would suggesting that you can write a clearly failing essay and get a 65 work in his favor to convince you that you need him? Seems to me the people telling you have to write a damn near perfect essay to get a 65 are the ones trying to convince you you need them. As far as his credentials you can look up Dean F
"Dear students, 65 is a failing essay score. Your score needs to be 75 to pass. So you better study 23 hours a day. I know what you need to do to get your score into 75 to ensure you pass. In fact, that is why I am here; hired by your school to get your scores up to the passing score of 75. All those idiots telling you all you need is 65 to pass have been lying to you."
You obviously didn't read it closely. Below the chart he clearly says that because of scaling a 65 is what you need to actually pass, even though it is technically a failing essay

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by MBAtoJD » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:29 pm

Actually, I saw that. 65 to pass the exam in general (PT, MBE and Essays) after scaling but it doesn't say he was referring to the essays only.

Anyway, regardless, I personally won't take a guy's word without more facts or proof explaining how he got his score range...and I believe that's others here are saying upon seeing the PDF.

With that, I will walk away from our fun conversation about Dean F because we are anxious about our result and this could get ugly QUICK.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by a male human » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:39 pm

CALawGirl wrote:
Carryon wrote:" but the differences between first and 2nd reads lead me to think that the grading is a little subjective.
No sh*t!

My Feb PR Score:
1st Read = 70; 2nd Read = 55; Operant Grade = 70

How the hell do you go from 70 to 50 then back to 70???? :roll:
Imagine getting the grader who would have given you 55 the first time and failing because of that.

The State Bar is fucking bullshit. Despite their attempts at quasi-objective grading via calibration, there's so much subjectivity because these graders likely aren't practicing attorneys (and thus don't care about you and just want their $3.25) and give you shit just because they feel like it--literally, because I know for a fact some of them will read your boring-ass essays in the WC.

And imagine some people passing because they happened to get a generous reader giving them a 70 that pushed them over the edge.

If you pass, you may have just happened to pass because of luck. Please don't go off bragging to everyone and get permanently placed on my list of known humblebraggers. Especially don't do the "[NAME], ESQ!!!!!!!" bullshit on Facebook. God, have some tact for the 35% of people who didn't pass. I guarantee you will know at least one person who didn't pass.

If you didn't pass, February is definitely the time to blow it out of the water. You have 3 months this time plus you already know a lot of the bar law. It's you against the enemy, and the enemy will eventually lose.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by CBXfail » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:45 pm

I like this article about Kathleen Sullivan, Pete Wilson, and Jerry Brown's failures; it provides some perspective. http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB113374619258513723

This test is protectionist horseshit, and it's amoral to put the barrier to entry to the CA legal market at the end of a $300k endeavor. The state should limit access to law school, not arbitrarily limit access to the profession after you're in debt.

It would be one thing if the CA bar was even slightly related to what makes a good practicing lawyer, but as that article proves, it's not.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by Law-So-Hard » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:46 pm

:(

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by barjamie8 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:43 pm

2oldfts wrote:"I agree, looking at the real graded essays on baressays.com completely proves these descriptions wrong."


And where exactly does Baressays get their graded essays from, since the essays of people who pass are not returned? From people who failed. Isn't it possible that people who failed to some degree had essays graded more harshly than they should have been. People have posted on this forum about huge discrepancies between first and 2nd read scores. Again, we have no idea how the essays of people who passed were graded. There isn't even agreement in this thread as to whether the scores on baressays are reflective of this man's descriptions or not. I just find it strange that a man that has been put in charge of improving passage rates at law schools would be completely wrong about his descriptions of essay grades
Just because someone failed doesn't mean they failed EVERYTHING. I have a friend who has taken the exam 3 times now because she cannot handle the MBE. Her essays are regularly 70s. So I assume baressays.com buys a bunch of these types of essays to get the high scoring ones. Whoever said a 65 is a failing essay does not know what they are talking about. If you look at real 65s on baressays they are good solid essays that hit all the major issues missing maybe a few minor issues only.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by adonai » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:54 pm

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by a male human » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:14 pm

What to Do If You Are Retaking the Bar
by AMH
age 28

It's not your fault.

You waited months. Day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, you slowly lost your ability to focus on anything. Blood knocking against all corners of your body. You suffered those few seconds of pure agony as you searched for your name on the pass list of truth.

You didn't even care about celebrating. You would have spent your lifetime of luck to get this hurdle over with.

And then...nothing to show for all your damn effort...

It could've been anything. Maybe your proctor kept walking by with a weird cough. Maybe you were minesweeping at the test center, surrounded by your 8 neighbors being distractions. Maybe were running around trying to secure lunch.

The bar shows NO mercy, NO sense. It seems like there is at least a quasi-objective determination of your aptitude, but how did they get your final score? Unemployed graders sitting on their toilet giving your essays whatever score they feel like, that's what. It's bullshit.

But this is the game we're playing.

The very fact that you're reading this shows me you are determined to change things around. If that is so, read on to see how you can reposition your inner mindset today for success next time.

If you're going to pretend that reading this and going "yeah that's what I should do" before forgetting everything I said will miraculously change anything, then please skip over this post and go back to Upworthy to continue your consumption of slacktivism there.

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Recognize it's a mere setback

Yes, this is a devastating setback. But what is a setback? It's a temporary holdup. Thus, it is also a mere setback.

This has little bearing on your character. Confine your shame to this specific effort of trying to obtain your certification. Try not to generalize it to your character (no character evidence allowed).

I know. Easier said than done. Sometimes I feel the shock even to this day, especially when I'm having a hard time at work.

What works for me is to confine my shame to this specific iteration. July was merely an iteration—a test, an experiment—to get to your passing version.

You either learn or succeed. Learn from it, tweak your settings, and try again. Then the next time, you will feel doubly more happy that you were able to pass.

Be hardcore

If there's one thing people realize after the bar, it's that the bar doesn't mess around. You gotta be hardcore. I asked some July folks about what they thought about their experiences, and here's what they had to say:

"Take this test seriously otherwise you will regret not giving ample time to study for a test that is not at all 'cram-able' like you might have been able to do for law school finals. This test commands respect and it will ruin your life if you do not take it seriously."—S.L.

"Don't be scared into following your bar program if you find after paying for it that it doesn't work for you. Do what works for you, stick with it, experiment and get into a pace and method."—S.K.

Make it your priority

To be hardcore, you'll need to put in some work. Put in the hard work up front to reap the benefits for the rest of your long life.

You need to make this your priority over most everything. Ask any lawyer, and they'll probably tell you the same. Tell everyone else to piss off. Of course, you'd better do something to show for it if you actually told your parents to piss off just now.

Don't do extra things like working on a useless journal article that only serves the person you're writing for. Don't work a full-time job. At least not now. The bar is your life now. Distractions like these only chip away at your chance of passing.

Say "no"

To make the bar your priority, you have to say "no" to everything that does not serve your improvement, technique, and memorization for the bar.

That is also hard work because you have to deny other people. It doesn't feel good, but you can always catch up with them later. They may not understand. You didn't understand until recently. Everyone will understand eventually.

You can't have competing interests taking you nowhere. No writing law review articles or working full time. But you can have complementary interests, like studying and socializing, sleep, eating, exercising.

Make the bar your only concern in order to move in that direction instead of being pulled in different directions.

Say "yes"

Surrounding the average are those above average and below average. If you follow the path set out by others, you will end up like the average, which is fine if you're OK with sometimes ending up above average and sometimes below average. You win some; you lose some. Right?

Hmm, I think we can agree that you want to—need to—win this one.

But this exam is an extraordinary one. To be extraordinary, you need all the edge you can get. You must be proactive to shift the spectrum of average in your favor. You need to say "yes" to things that will have an impact on your eventual success.

You must prepare yourself to be several deviations above the average so that even when you get knocked down a few pegs on game day, you still have a fighting chance.

Take the time to deny, cry, curse, reflect, regroup. Then when you are ready, it's time to tweak the experiment.

On Monday, I'll show you the specific ways I repositioned my study strategies. In the meantime, feel free to look around the site for other resources that can help.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread

Post by imacpa » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:17 am

I want to wish everyone well as they get their results. I hope that everyone passes. I understand the nagging wait and anxiety for score releases as I was in this position before. All I have to say is that I'm glad that I'm not in your shoes stressing out!

I have previously taken the CBX the last couple of times and failed before moving on to take another state bar exam which I passed with room to spare. In my opinion I think the CBX grading is a bit arbitrary. Anytime you see a 15 point difference between graders on an essay that is a serious problem which suggests that there are no uniform standards by which essays are measured. I had that happen to me before.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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