Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[AIpwns]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

[Tanicius]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

I sniffled out loud. That was good.

[AIpwns]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

I sniffled out loud. That was good.

Actually, now that I think about it, it is pretty pitiful that the most commentary I have ever gotten on these graded essays has been on some dumbass intro I decided to make to amuse myself. Thanks a lot Themis!

[northwood]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

I sniffled out loud. That was good.

perhaps your graded purposely graded you down because the grader was offended?

[Tanicius]

perhaps your graded purposely graded you down because the grader was offended?

I think his grader definitely graded him down for it. What I like is how the grader even bothers to tell him "FYI you shouldn't do this" and backs it up with careful reasoning.

[jigglypuffdreams]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

Honestly, if you're wasting time on your limited number of graded essays writing shitty jokes and not taking it seriously, I don't know what you expected. There are tons of ungraded essays you can fuck around on with no consequence, the Themis essay graders try to grade like a real essay grader but stricter. Grammar errors, poor organization, and other subjective stylistic factors can influence actual essay graders too. Sexism aside, they probably were trying to simulate what would happen if you pulled that on an actual exam. Because that's the whole point of the graded essays.

[AIpwns]

perhaps your graded purposely graded you down because the grader was offended?

I think his grader definitely graded him down for it. What I like is how the grader even bothers to tell him "FYI you shouldn't do this" and backs it up with careful reasoning.

I loved this. Like he expected a light bulb to go off and for me to say "OHHH so I shouldn't be a smartass on the exam I prepared over three months for!"

[AIpwns]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

Honestly, if you're wasting time on your limited number of graded essays writing shitty jokes and not taking it seriously, I don't know what you expected. There are tons of ungraded essays you can fuck around on with no consequence, the Themis essay graders try to grade like a real essay grader but stricter. Grammar errors, poor organization, and other subjective stylistic factors can influence actual essay graders too. Sexism aside, they probably were trying to simulate what would happen if you pulled that on an actual exam. Because that's the whole point of the graded essays.

I haven't had a single graded essay worth shit so no, I didn't take this intro seriously. Like I said, this is the most commentary I have ever gotten. I do not blame the grade for saying I shouldn't do this whatsoever. I just think that it is rather obvious that you shouldn't do this on the real bar exam and the grader would know that. Additionally, I am still greatly disappointed with the lack of commentary on the essays in general. If the graders want me to take this serious, they should give serious commentary. The rest of the essay, besides the intro, was serious and, in my opinion, well written and spot on. It isn't like I joked around for the whole essay, just the introduction part of the legal memorandum which we all know is nothing substantive anyways. It upsets me that the grader will take that much time to point out that I shouldn't do something so obvious but has never given me any advice regarding why I, and presumably from the averages everyone else, is making below average grades on these essays.

[bport hopeful]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

Honestly, if you're wasting time on your limited number of graded essays writing shitty jokes and not taking it seriously, I don't know what you expected. There are tons of ungraded essays you can fuck around on with no consequence, the Themis essay graders try to grade like a real essay grader but stricter. Grammar errors, poor organization, and other subjective stylistic factors can influence actual essay graders too. Sexism aside, they probably were trying to simulate what would happen if you pulled that on an actual exam. Because that's the whole point of the graded essays.

Chill bro.

[northwood]

perhaps your graded purposely graded you down because the grader was offended?

I think his grader definitely graded him down for it. What I like is how the grader even bothers to tell him "FYI you shouldn't do this" and backs it up with careful reasoning.

I loved this. Like he expected a light bulb to go off and for me to say "OHHH so I shouldn't be a smartass on the exam I prepared over three months for!"

true.. but I bet there has been someone ( or a few) who has decided to actually do that, and then complained to their prep company/ tutor/ school/ etc

[Tanicius]

true.. but I bet there has been someone ( or a few) who has decided to actually do that, and then complained to their prep company/ tutor/ school/ etc

I admit it's probably too much to expect a grader to recognize his essays in connection with his past essays and realize he's not really that dumb. The graders probably have 100 essays to grade every week and have no idea who he is.

[AIpwns]

true.. but I bet there has been someone ( or a few) who has decided to actually do that, and then complained to their prep company/ tutor/ school/ etc

I admit it's probably too much to expect a grader to recognize his essays in connection with his past essays and realize he's not really that dumb. The graders probably have 100 essays to grade every week and have no idea who he is.

This is a good point. However, as I said above, I wish he would take this much time on the rest of my essay instead of giving no criticism and saying I get 1/4 points.

[northwood]

true.. but I bet there has been someone ( or a few) who has decided to actually do that, and then complained to their prep company/ tutor/ school/ etc

I admit it's probably too much to expect a grader to recognize his essays in connection with his past essays and realize he's not really that dumb. The graders probably have 100 essays to grade every week and have no idea who he is.

This is a good point. However, as I said above, I wish he would take this much time on the rest of my essay instead of giving no criticism and saying I get 1/4 points.

can you resubmit it( take the first part out)

[AIpwns]

true.. but I bet there has been someone ( or a few) who has decided to actually do that, and then complained to their prep company/ tutor/ school/ etc

I admit it's probably too much to expect a grader to recognize his essays in connection with his past essays and realize he's not really that dumb. The graders probably have 100 essays to grade every week and have no idea who he is.

This is a good point. However, as I said above, I wish he would take this much time on the rest of my essay instead of giving no criticism and saying I get 1/4 points.

can you resubmit it( take the first part out)

I don't think so. Additionally, I haven't what I would consider a decent grading on any of my essays so I don't think it would matter if I could. There is simply no explanation for the grade given.

[Prime]

Favorite question to date:

A homeowner hired an arsonist to set fire to the homeowner's house so that the homeowner could collect the insurance proceeds from the fire. After pouring gasoline around the house, the arsonist lit the fire with his cigarette lighter and then put the lighter in his pocket. As the arsonist was standing back admiring his work, the lighter exploded in his pocket. The arsonist suffered severe burns to his leg. The arsonist brought an action against the manufacturer of the lighter based on strict products liability. Under applicable law, the rules of pure comparative fault apply in such actions. Will the arsonist prevail?

Yes, if the lighter exploded because of a defect caused by a manufacturing error.

If only I could have read this case in law school!

[Kiwi917]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

If you really want constructive comments, I'd send your grader a message, apologize for the intro, and ask specific questions about the rest of your essay. Yeah, it's the grader's job to give you feedback and you shouldn't have to apologize for what is clearly a joke, but if you actually want his feedback, that's probably the only way to get it. They're less likely to blow off your message if you ask direct questions about your essay, since all of that will be in the paper trail on your account. The grader (and Themis) won't want to deal with a later complaint along the lines of "Sure, I joked around on an essay, but I apologized and followed up with questions and my grader still won't help me."

I felt like my grader's comments on my first few essays were sort of generic and unhelpful, so I started asking her direct questions about certain things and since then, she seems to have put more time into writing feedback. It went from a few words here and there ("missed X issue" "good organization") to full explanations and advice. No guarantee your grader will be the same, but I think once mine figured out that I was taking this seriously, things changed for the better.

[northwood]

Favorite question to date:

A homeowner hired an arsonist to set fire to the homeowner's house so that the homeowner could collect the insurance proceeds from the fire. After pouring gasoline around the house, the arsonist lit the fire with his cigarette lighter and then put the lighter in his pocket. As the arsonist was standing back admiring his work, the lighter exploded in his pocket. The arsonist suffered severe burns to his leg. The arsonist brought an action against the manufacturer of the lighter based on strict products liability. Under applicable law, the rules of pure comparative fault apply in such actions. Will the arsonist prevail?

Yes, if the lighter exploded because of a defect caused by a manufacturing error.

If only I could have read this case in law school!

but would you still have read it?

[AIpwns]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

If you really want constructive comments, I'd send your grader a message, apologize for the intro, and ask specific questions about the rest of your essay. Yeah, it's the grader's job to give you feedback and you shouldn't have to apologize for what is clearly a joke, but if you actually want his feedback, that's probably the only way to get it. They're less likely to blow off your message if you ask direct questions about your essay, since all of that will be in the paper trail on your account. The grader (and Themis) won't want to deal with a later complaint along the lines of "Sure, I joked around on an essay, but I apologized and followed up with questions and my grader still won't help me."

I felt like my grader's comments on my first few essays were sort of generic and unhelpful, so I started asking her direct questions about certain things and since then, she seems to have put more time into writing feedback. It went from a few words here and there ("missed X issue" "good organization") to full explanations and advice. No guarantee your grader will be the same, but I think once mine figured out that I was taking this seriously, things changed for the better.

Done! We will see what he has to say.

[blue920]

If a corporations essay doesnt ask something real broad from like, the first third of the lecture, I am effed. Wont even be able to fake it.

Something something reasonable.

Oh, um, shares issue? The rule of Veil Piercing is that it has to be, um, reasonable. So no I'm concluding that they can't recover personally from whoever this person is.

What I keep trying to remember is that a director has duty of loyalty, duty of care. That might be it. And that you need a shareholder vote to remove a director, since once of the essays was on that.

Veil piercing - can pierce the veil due to fraud. Again, another essay question (that I got wrong since I hadn't covered corporations yet).

I actually like corporations, but no way can I remember all this shit. At least we had a different lecturer than Colombo.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Kind of amazed how much model student answers can vary on the same essay or PT question, yet they're both supposed to be top notch. Was just looking at one where one student noted 5 issues and the other pointed out 12... that's a pretty big difference. You'd think one would have too many or the other not enough. We'll get what we deserve for the MBEs, but when it comes down to grading everything else, I think it's going to be pretty subjective... which will either be really good, or really bad, depending on who's doing the grading.

[Genuine4ps]

So I've come to the realization that EVERYTHING is foreseeable and proximate cause will always be satisfied.

[Tanicius]

So I've come to the realization that EVERYTHING is foreseeable and proximate cause will always be satisfied.

For doctrinal purposes, everything really is foreseeable except for acts of God (forces of nature) and someone else's intentional tort or crime. As for damages, all physical and emotional damages against the injured party are foreseeable, and business damages generally are not.

[bedefan]

I'm just blanking here -- can someone help me out? Overstudying brain fry...

An MBE PQ answer explanation says, "A witness’s prior inconsistent statement is always admissible to impeach the witness." FRE 801 only covers prior inconsistent statements made under penalty of perjury. Can somebody point me to either the FRE or the place in the Themis outline where it says that ANY prior inconsistent of a testifying witness is admissible to impeach that witness? I just can't seem to find it.

A lot of these answer explanations are kind of crappy and I don't trust them to always state the law right, so I'd like some corroboration...

[Tanicius]

I'm just blanking here -- can someone help me out? Overstudying brain fry...

An MBE PQ answer explanation says, "A witness’s prior inconsistent statement is always admissible to impeach the witness." FRE 801 only covers prior inconsistent statements made under penalty of perjury. Can somebody point me to either the FRE or the place in the Themis outline where it says that ANY prior inconsistent of a testifying witness is admissible to impeach that witness? I just can't seem to find it.

A lot of these answer explanations are kind of crappy and I don't trust them to always state the law right, so I'd like some corroboration...

801's Inconsistent Statement exemption is for when you are using an inconsistent statement for substantive, not just impeachment, purposes. Prior court testimony that was sworn under oath (and in a present criminal case, where the defendant had an opportunity to cross at the prior proceeding) may be used not just to attack the witness's credibility, but to prove the truth of the matter claimed at that prior hearing.

For non sworn-under-oath inconsistent testimony, you can only use it for impeachment purposes unless there is some other applicable exception.

[Cyberpirate]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

If you really want constructive comments, I'd send your grader a message, apologize for the intro, and ask specific questions about the rest of your essay. Yeah, it's the grader's job to give you feedback and you shouldn't have to apologize for what is clearly a joke, but if you actually want his feedback, that's probably the only way to get it. They're less likely to blow off your message if you ask direct questions about your essay, since all of that will be in the paper trail on your account. The grader (and Themis) won't want to deal with a later complaint along the lines of "Sure, I joked around on an essay, but I apologized and followed up with questions and my grader still won't help me."

I felt like my grader's comments on my first few essays were sort of generic and unhelpful, so I started asking her direct questions about certain things and since then, she seems to have put more time into writing feedback. It went from a few words here and there ("missed X issue" "good organization") to full explanations and advice. No guarantee your grader will be the same, but I think once mine figured out that I was taking this seriously, things changed for the better.

Done! We will see what he has to say.

How do i exactly contact my attorney advisor? I have tried to contact via advisor question. But my attorney advisor is not the one who replies back it is usually some one else.