Adaptibar user hangout - July 2017 Forum

[WestWingWatcher]

Doing well on Barbri questions, was 90th percentile on the simulated MBE. Only getting about 61% correct on Adaptibar. This makes me extremely nervous.

That's interesting. I usually do worse on Barbri problem sets than Adaptibar, but for the simulated MBE I got exactly the same percent correct as Adaptibar has me getting.

Regardless, you got 75% right on the simulated MBE so I wouldn't be too concerned!

It's so weird! I always heard Barbri questions are harder too. Just concerning since AB are actual questions, so it's kind of scary those are the ones I'm doing worse on. I guess I'll just do as many as possible in the next few weeks.

Do you do Adaptibar questions under different conditions than you do the Barbri questions? For example, do you do the barbri questions in the book, versus Adaptibar online? Or do you do Adaptibar on the go, while when you do Barbri questions you are always more settled in and focused? Things like that might explain the difference!

[barkschool]

I've also found that about 1/4 to 1/2 of all barbri questions can be done via elimination


whereas adaptibar you've gotta know the rule

edit — simulated and adaptibar current percentage pretty similar around 70% (im not sure if that done anything but add more data points)

[TheSpanishMain]

I like AB simply because the fact patterns are usually shorter.

[Futuregohan14]

I've also found that about 1/4 to 1/2 of all barbri questions can be done via elimination


whereas adaptibar you've gotta know the rule

I've felt like I could do the same thing with Adaptibar. I've encountered many questions (probably a majority) where it was possible for me to just cut off 2 or 3 answers by elimination even when I wasn't 100% sure. I have a much harder time doing that in Barbri due to the eternal fact patterns and the more nuanced answer choices.

I like AB simply because the fact patterns are usually shorter.

This is my favorite thing about AB. That and the fact that they are using actual questions so I can get a better feel for the rules that will actually be tested for on test day (I've already encountered a few wrinkles that have never popped up for me in Barbri) and the kind of fact patterns/answers I'm going to see. Barbri is great for getting MBE prep started with all the nuances and tough fact patterns to drill information into you, but I wonder if Adaptibar isn't better to finish off with for the purposes of getting your brain used to engaging with the exact kind of experience and reasoning you'll have on test day.

[RaceJudicata]

Doing well on Barbri questions, was 90th percentile on the simulated MBE. Only getting about 61% correct on Adaptibar. This makes me extremely nervous.

That's interesting. I usually do worse on Barbri problem sets than Adaptibar, but for the simulated MBE I got exactly the same percent correct as Adaptibar has me getting.

Regardless, you got 75% right on the simulated MBE so I wouldn't be too concerned!

It's so weird! I always heard Barbri questions are harder too. Just concerning since AB are actual questions, so it's kind of scary those are the ones I'm doing worse on. I guess I'll just do as many as possible in the next few weeks.

Do you do Adaptibar questions under different conditions than you do the Barbri questions? For example, do you do the barbri questions in the book, versus Adaptibar online? Or do you do Adaptibar on the go, while when you do Barbri questions you are always more settled in and focused? Things like that might explain the difference!

This is definitely a factor for me. I do much better when I can mark up the question and diagram. (Granted, I could still diagram while using adaptibar, but I'm lazy.)

[barkschool]

but I wonder if Adaptibar isn't better to finish off with for the purposes of getting your brain used to engaging with the exact kind of experience and reasoning you'll have on test day.

I have similar worries. It seems more advantageous to be killing it at AB than Barbri going into the exam.

[Lawyerinwaiting89]

The AdaptiBar civ pro questions depress me. Lol I can't even fathom how they came up with most of those questions. Talk about nuanced.

[DCESQ]

The difficult part with both is that it's difficult to gauge how doing the questions translates to an actual exam. For example, I did 25 torts questions today in AB and had 6 that were privacy tort questions. While learning the rule to these is important, according to BB there will only be a couple of these questions on the actual exam. Maybe my approach is just wrong, but I am trying to gauge how I would do on an actual 25 question set and the questions aren't representative of an actual exam.

[Bass]

The difficult part with both is that it's difficult to gauge how doing the questions translates to an actual exam. For example, I did 25 torts questions today in AB and had 6 that were privacy tort questions. While learning the rule to these is important, according to BB there will only be a couple of these questions on the actual exam. Maybe my approach is just wrong, but I am trying to gauge how I would do on an actual 25 question set and the questions aren't representative of an actual exam.

I've read that AB changes the question mix based on your weaknesses - that could be why you're tested disproportionately on privacy torts

[InterAlia1961]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

[WestWingWatcher]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

[TheSpanishMain]

How many questions are people up to? I'm at about 650.

[barkschool]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

Interalia, that AB rule statement is pretty much correct

ppb pretty much is HQ

now, if the question said "X Corp has its HQ in State A, but its nerve center (or its executive all conduct the strategic business in) State B"
Then the PPB would be State B. But I have never seen an answer choice where you had to dissect the two like this. For all intents and purposes the HQ is the PPB

[InterAlia1961]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

Interalia, that AB rule statement is pretty much correct

ppb pretty much is HQ

now, if the question said "X Corp has its HQ in State A, but its nerve center (or its executive all conduct the strategic business in) State B"
Then the PPB would be State B. But I have never seen an answer choice where you had to dissect the two like this. For all intents and purposes the HQ is the PPB

Without talking about what actually appears on the MBE, please know this. Any question where an answer states "because the corporation is headquartered in xxxx" is wrong. There are many scenarios where the company has its principal place of business (without calling it that) someplace other than where it is headquartered. The test is the "nerve center test," period.

Here's another one. Question 1120, crim pro. The facts say that law enforcement cut the fence, then saw a scarecrow in the adjacent field which was surrounded by the fence that had been cut. This is NOT the proper application of the open fields doctrine, because they went onto the land without a warrant and then saw the scarecrow. Under the open fields doctrine, one has no expectation of privacy in the fields around their home if people can see them from the air or passing by, but trust me on this, as I've been involved in nasty litigation over it, law enforcement cannot cut a fence, walk out to the back forty, and then claim they saw something under the open fields doctrine. Won that one, baby.

[Brobot]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

Interalia, that AB rule statement is pretty much correct

ppb pretty much is HQ

now, if the question said "X Corp has its HQ in State A, but its nerve center (or its executive all conduct the strategic business in) State B"
Then the PPB would be State B. But I have never seen an answer choice where you had to dissect the two like this. For all intents and purposes the HQ is the PPB

I do not recommend Adaptibar.

[Previous post edited after being contacted by Adaptibar.]

[whats an updog]

For me, the crim questions in AB have been insane. I thought it was going to be a strong subject for me because I was doing very well on my Themis MBE PQ sets, but on AB I'm waaay low. Questions about precedent, child labor, extraterritorial kidnappings -- wtf?

[ConfusedL1]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

Interalia, that AB rule statement is pretty much correct

ppb pretty much is HQ

now, if the question said "X Corp has its HQ in State A, but its nerve center (or its executive all conduct the strategic business in) State B"
Then the PPB would be State B. But I have never seen an answer choice where you had to dissect the two like this. For all intents and purposes the HQ is the PPB

"Here's a doosy"

+1 to the prior responses. It seems like you're trying to parse things a little too much (e.g., trying to distinguish "nerve center" vs. HQ), but hard to say without the fact pattern and given answer choices.

My favorite AB answer explanations so far are the ones where there are >1 accepted answer -- I guess exam-takers chose a "wrong" answer so often that the bar examiners ended up accepting it, e.g., due to state law differences. I ran into 2 of those yesterday drilling Crim and Torts.

I think parsing is fine here because the bar ROUTINELY has questions that only slightly modify language for what would be true as wrong answers.

AB has had several qs with really poor explanations.

[Brobot]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

Interalia, that AB rule statement is pretty much correct

ppb pretty much is HQ

now, if the question said "X Corp has its HQ in State A, but its nerve center (or its executive all conduct the strategic business in) State B"
Then the PPB would be State B. But I have never seen an answer choice where you had to dissect the two like this. For all intents and purposes the HQ is the PPB

"Here's a doosy"

+1 to the prior responses. It seems like you're trying to parse things a little too much (e.g., trying to distinguish "nerve center" vs. HQ), but hard to say without the fact pattern and given answer choices.

My favorite AB answer explanations so far are the ones where there are >1 accepted answer -- I guess exam-takers chose a "wrong" answer so often that the bar examiners ended up accepting it, e.g., due to state law differences. I ran into 2 of those yesterday drilling Crim and Torts.

I think parsing is fine here because the bar ROUTINELY has questions that only slightly modify language for what would be true as wrong answers.

AB has had several qs with really poor explanations.

I do not recommend Adaptibar.

[Previous post edited after being contacted by Adaptibar.]

[barkschool]

Here's the question at issue with the answer:

[+] Spoiler

QUESTION:

An injured man brought a products liability case in state court in State A against the manufacturer of a drug that the man believes caused him injuries and against the retailer from whom the man bought the drug. The injured man is a citizen in State A. The manufacturer is a corporation that is incorporated in State B, has its sole manufacturing plant in State C, and holds the meetings of its board of directors in State A where they direct and control the corporation's activities. The retailer is a limited liability company that has its principal place of business in State A, but its owner-members are citizens of State E. The injured man seeks $100,000 in compensatory damages. The manufacturer and the retailer timely removed the case to the federal district court in State A. The injured man timely moved to remand the case back to state court. The district court is extremely busy with criminal cases and civil cases that arise under federal law.

Should the district court uphold the removal and retain the case, or remand the case to state court?

A. The district court should uphold the removal and retain the case because the injured man is diverse from both the manufacturer and the retailer, the amount in controversy required for diversity subject-matter jurisdiction is satisfied, the venue is proper, and all other requirements of the removal statutes have been met.
B. The district court should remand the case to state court because the injured man is not diverse from both the manufacturer and the retailer, and the court lacks any other basis of subject-matter jurisdiction.
C. In its discretion the district court should remand the case, even if it was properly removed, so that it can conserve its resources for criminal cases and civil cases that arise under federal law.
D. The district court should remand the case to state court. Although the injured man is diverse from both the manufacturer and the retailer, the amount in controversy required for diversity subject-matter jurisdiction is satisfied, and the venue is proper; the case should be remanded because either the manufacturer or the retailer, or both, are citizens of the state in which the action was brought.

I can't believe we're arguing about this, because if you take a look at the explanation it was a simple issue of whoever writing it getting a little excited with themselves. In context, the question really has nothing to do with HQ v. Nerve center.

The question tells you where all the parties are.

The injured man is a citizen in State A.

The manufacturer is a corporation that is incorporated in State B, has its sole manufacturing plant in State C, and holds the meetings of its board of directors in State A where they direct and control the corporation's activities.

The retailer is a limited liability company that has its principal place of business in State A, but its owner-members are citizens of State E

In context, the HQ v. nerve center distinction is silly.

[+] Spoiler

EXPLANATION:

B is correct. Here the parties are not diverse from one another because the injured man, and the manufacturer are citizens of State A. The plaintiff is domiciled in State A. A corporation is domiciled in both the state of incorporation, and the state of its principal place of business. A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered. Therefore, the manufacturing corporation is domiciled in both State B, where it is incorporated, and State A where its board of directors sits. An unincorporated association, such as an LLC, however has different rules to determine its domicile. An unincorporated association is domiciled in every state in which its members are citizens. Therefore, the drug retailer is domiciled in State E.

A is incorrect. Here, there is no diversity jurisdiction between the parties because both the injured man and the drug manufacturer are co-citizens of State A.

C is incorrect. Even if the court had jurisdiction, it would lack authority to remand so that it could conserve its resources for federal question cases.

D is incorrect. Here, there is no diversity jurisdiction between the parties because both the injured man and the drug manufacturer are co-citizens of State A.

[Brobot]

Here's the question at issue with the answer:

[+] Spoiler

QUESTION:

An injured man brought a products liability case in state court in State A against the manufacturer of a drug that the man believes caused him injuries and against the retailer from whom the man bought the drug. The injured man is a citizen in State A. The manufacturer is a corporation that is incorporated in State B, has its sole manufacturing plant in State C, and holds the meetings of its board of directors in State A where they direct and control the corporation's activities. The retailer is a limited liability company that has its principal place of business in State A, but its owner-members are citizens of State E. The injured man seeks $100,000 in compensatory damages. The manufacturer and the retailer timely removed the case to the federal district court in State A. The injured man timely moved to remand the case back to state court. The district court is extremely busy with criminal cases and civil cases that arise under federal law.

Should the district court uphold the removal and retain the case, or remand the case to state court?

A. The district court should uphold the removal and retain the case because the injured man is diverse from both the manufacturer and the retailer, the amount in controversy required for diversity subject-matter jurisdiction is satisfied, the venue is proper, and all other requirements of the removal statutes have been met.
B. The district court should remand the case to state court because the injured man is not diverse from both the manufacturer and the retailer, and the court lacks any other basis of subject-matter jurisdiction.
C. In its discretion the district court should remand the case, even if it was properly removed, so that it can conserve its resources for criminal cases and civil cases that arise under federal law.
D. The district court should remand the case to state court. Although the injured man is diverse from both the manufacturer and the retailer, the amount in controversy required for diversity subject-matter jurisdiction is satisfied, and the venue is proper; the case should be remanded because either the manufacturer or the retailer, or both, are citizens of the state in which the action was brought.

I can't believe we're arguing about this, because if you take a look at the explanation it was a simple issue of whoever writing it getting a little excited with themselves. In context, the question really has nothing to do with HQ v. Nerve center.

The question tells you where all the parties are.

The injured man is a citizen in State A.

The manufacturer is a corporation that is incorporated in State B, has its sole manufacturing plant in State C, and holds the meetings of its board of directors in State A where they direct and control the corporation's activities.

The retailer is a limited liability company that has its principal place of business in State A, but its owner-members are citizens of State E

In context, the HQ v. nerve center distinction is silly.

[+] Spoiler

EXPLANATION:

B is correct. Here the parties are not diverse from one another because the injured man, and the manufacturer are citizens of State A. The plaintiff is domiciled in State A. A corporation is domiciled in both the state of incorporation, and the state of its principal place of business. A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered. Therefore, the manufacturing corporation is domiciled in both State B, where it is incorporated, and State A where its board of directors sits. An unincorporated association, such as an LLC, however has different rules to determine its domicile. An unincorporated association is domiciled in every state in which its members are citizens. Therefore, the drug retailer is domiciled in State E.

A is incorrect. Here, there is no diversity jurisdiction between the parties because both the injured man and the drug manufacturer are co-citizens of State A.

C is incorrect. Even if the court had jurisdiction, it would lack authority to remand so that it could conserve its resources for federal question cases.

D is incorrect. Here, there is no diversity jurisdiction between the parties because both the injured man and the drug manufacturer are co-citizens of State A.

I do not recommend Adaptibar.

[Previous post edited after being contacted by Adaptibar.]

[NYC2012]

Do you do Adaptibar questions under different conditions than you do the Barbri questions? For example, do you do the barbri questions in the book, versus Adaptibar online? Or do you do Adaptibar on the go, while when you do Barbri questions you are always more settled in and focused? Things like that might explain the difference!

Great suggestions, thank you! My % has gone up now that I've started actually sitting down and focusing to do the Adaptibar questions instead of doing them in a more rushed way, on my phone, etc.. I also do think having the Barbri questions on paper helps me more.

[InterAlia1961]

I've found a couple of misstatements of law on Adaptibar's answers. Here's a doosy. Number 1702,Civ Pro. Here's part of the "correct" answer:

"A corporation's principal place of business is typically where it is headquartered." WRONG!!

A principal's principal place of business is not where they are headquartered unless there are facts to support it. A corporation is a citizen of both the state of its incorporation and where they have their principal place of business. The test for principle place of business is the "nerve center" test, not the"headquartered" test.

But isn't the nerve center often where the company is headquartered? So, the statement that the PPB typically being where the corporation is HQ isn't really incorrect? Or do I have my stuff mixed up?

Interalia, that AB rule statement is pretty much correct

ppb pretty much is HQ

now, if the question said "X Corp has its HQ in State A, but its nerve center (or its executive all conduct the strategic business in) State B"
Then the PPB would be State B. But I have never seen an answer choice where you had to dissect the two like this. For all intents and purposes the HQ is the PPB

"Here's a doosy"

+1 to the prior responses. It seems like you're trying to parse things a little too much (e.g., trying to distinguish "nerve center" vs. HQ), but hard to say without the fact pattern and given answer choices.

My favorite AB answer explanations so far are the ones where there are >1 accepted answer -- I guess exam-takers chose a "wrong" answer so often that the bar examiners ended up accepting it, e.g., due to state law differences. I ran into 2 of those yesterday drilling Crim and Torts.

I think parsing is fine here because the bar ROUTINELY has questions that only slightly modify language for what would be true as wrong answers.

AB has had several qs with really poor explanations.

Thus the bolded.

And I didn't say AB explanations were spot-on, even in this case - I was just agreeing with others that it is possible to read too much into what may be a pretty straightforward question.

Someone replied that the AB answer was "pretty much correct." That would be great, if "pretty much correct" was the standard on the bar exam. However, it's not. Just remember that HQ is NOT the same as the principle place of business. The principle place of business is the nerve center, the place where the people who can, actually do, make the decisions. The place where the shareholders meet, where the BOD meets, where policy is decided. If the question says a corporation is headquartered somewhere, make sure that the HQ isn't just where the mail goes or where the registered agent is. It must be the "nerve center."

And someone else said the discussion was "silly." Check yourself. It's not silly. I can't think of a better way to learn, apply, and remember the rule about a corporation's citizenship than discussing it. When this question comes up on the MBE, everyone here will remember this discussion. If it comes up on an essay, it will be a happy coincidence indeed.

[WestWingWatcher]

Someone replied that the AB answer was "pretty much correct." That would be great, if "pretty much correct" was the standard on the bar exam. However, it's not. Just remember that HQ is NOT the same as the principle place of business. The principle place of business is the nerve center, the place where the people who can, actually do, make the decisions. The place where the shareholders meet, where the BOD meets, where policy is decided. If the question says a corporation is headquartered somewhere, make sure that the HQ isn't just where the mail goes or where the registered agent is. It must be the "nerve center."

And someone else said the discussion was "silly." Check yourself. It's not silly. I can't think of a better way to learn, apply, and remember the rule about a corporation's citizenship than discussing it. When this question comes up on the MBE, everyone here will remember this discussion. If it comes up on an essay, it will be a happy coincidence indeed.

I don't think anyone is having any difficulty understanding the concept—it is one of the most basic civil procedure principles there is. I think some of us may be focusing more on the forest lest we lose it for the trees, so we're less concerned that Adaptibar gave us a correct answer that didn't fully explicate all the details of the rules. All a matter of preference.

Are we done with this issue yet?

[okaygo]

Sooo I need advice/guidance. On adapitbar I am doing well (61%) but everytime I do anything in Barbri I fail miserably, less than 50% questions correct. What do I do. I'm freaking out.

[RaceJudicata]

Sooo I need advice/guidance. On adapitbar I am doing well (61%) but everytime I do anything in Barbri I fail miserably, less than 50% questions correct. What do I do. I'm freaking out.

How did you do on the Simulated MBE? Try and take your time w/ the barbri questions - I don't love the format they give them to you in (the graphic size, inability to highlight / copy+paste answer explanation), and have found more success by taking the paper exams.

Also focus on eliminating some answers and using process of elimination -- it is your friend. Sometimes looking for the "correct" answer will be more difficult than simply eliminating wrong answers.

Lastly, meaningfully review your answers. Obviously, review all incorrect answers, but try and flag "tough" questions to review as well - whether you get them right or wrong.