Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[sd5289]

For a study break, I hope you all end up enjoying this as much as I did.

[19871987]

Wow, that sucked. I did make it into Themis' "average-student-at-this-time score (110-120)" range, but that score is a bit below what we'd actually need to feel safe, so I'm still nervous.

Confused...does it say that somewhere? All I see is the average % correct for the AM and PM sessions...

[gr8scOtt!]

For a study break, I hope you all end up enjoying this as much as I did.

[hephaestus]

Themis is all about advertising unlimited essay grading, but does anyone know how to actually submit extra essays?

[lilypad144]

i smh every time someone posts here and is like "omg i'm ONLY at 60% i'll never finish " when i'm rocking about 20 %pts less than that. not as bad as the folks who complain about "only" scoring 70% on an mbe pq set or some nonsense, though.

I'm right there with you! I am doing horribly on the MBE so I try to stay away from this forum as much as possible. I'm sure we aren't the only ones that aren't getting 60%'s! Hang in there!!!

[Confused7]

That. Was. Miserable. Can't believe we have to do this again on test day

[GULCPerson]

Wow, that sucked. I did make it into Themis' "average-student-at-this-time score (110-120)" range, but that score is a bit below what we'd actually need to feel safe, so I'm still nervous.

Confused...does it say that somewhere? All I see is the average % correct for the AM and PM sessions...

The online instructions before you started the assignment gave the 110-120 range.

Also, Themis advisor warned us to wait a handful of days before comparing ourselves to the average, and expect it to settle a few points lower than it currently is, because the group of people who took the Simulated MBE on the very first day is biased towards people that are ahead on prep, it isn't reflective of the overall user pool right now.

[eloise16]

Wow, that sucked. I did make it into Themis' "average-student-at-this-time score (110-120)" range, but that score is a bit below what we'd actually need to feel safe, so I'm still nervous.

Confused...does it say that somewhere? All I see is the average % correct for the AM and PM sessions...

The online instructions before you started the assignment gave the 110-120 range.

Also, Themis advisor warned us to wait a handful of days before comparing ourselves to the average, and expect it to settle a few points lower than it currently is, because the group of people who took the Simulated MBE on the very first day is biased towards people that are ahead on prep, it isn't reflective of the overall user pool right now.

Wait so I got a 115 so that's right where Themis thinks I should be? What does it need to be in order to pass the MBE section? I keep getting really varied answers. I'm in MD for reference... it's like 65% right?

[GULCPerson]

Wow, that sucked. I did make it into Themis' "average-student-at-this-time score (110-120)" range, but that score is a bit below what we'd actually need to feel safe, so I'm still nervous.

Confused...does it say that somewhere? All I see is the average % correct for the AM and PM sessions...

The online instructions before you started the assignment gave the 110-120 range.

Also, Themis advisor warned us to wait a handful of days before comparing ourselves to the average, and expect it to settle a few points lower than it currently is, because the group of people who took the Simulated MBE on the very first day is biased towards people that are ahead on prep, it isn't reflective of the overall user pool right now.

Wait so I got a 115 so that's right where Themis thinks I should be? What does it need to be in order to pass the MBE section? I keep getting really varied answers. I'm in MD for reference... it's like 65% right?

I don't know anything about what you need to pass in Maryland. All I was saying is that if you go to the Simulated MBE page on the web portal, the instructions say "typically, students answer between 110-120 actual questions correctly at this stage of the course."

[Ahyis]

Wow, that sucked. I did make it into Themis' "average-student-at-this-time score (110-120)" range, but that score is a bit below what we'd actually need to feel safe, so I'm still nervous.

Confused...does it say that somewhere? All I see is the average % correct for the AM and PM sessions...

The online instructions before you started the assignment gave the 110-120 range.

Also, Themis advisor warned us to wait a handful of days before comparing ourselves to the average, and expect it to settle a few points lower than it currently is, because the group of people who took the Simulated MBE on the very first day is biased towards people that are ahead on prep, it isn't reflective of the overall user pool right now.

Wait so I got a 115 so that's right where Themis thinks I should be? What does it need to be in order to pass the MBE section? I keep getting really varied answers. I'm in MD for reference... it's like 65% right?

Yeah, I got a 117/190 (10 questions aren't graded, so that translates to 61%). I BELIEVE that on test day a raw score of 125 nets you 65% (125/190).I'd shoot for 130 raw (68%) to be safe, which means I need to get another 13 questions right overall. I suppose that's not totally unreachable...

[kiwi4president]

I got a 129 raw. Anyone know if the scaling is supposed to be built into the simulated exam?

[Confused7]

Does anyone else feel woefully unprepared for the real test despite doing reasonably "well" on the simulated MBE? The suggested raw score at this point 110-120 is fine, but all my wrong answers (and there were A LOT) just remind of me all the things I still don't know and have to memorize on top of the NY distinctions.

[paulshortys10]

Does anyone else feel woefully unprepared for the real test despite doing reasonably "well" on the simulated MBE? The suggested raw score at this point 110-120 is fine, but all my wrong answers (and there were A LOT) just remind of me all the things I still don't know and have to memorize on top of the NY distinctions.

I feel it's probably a common feeling. Law school people are competitive and have succeeded in the past, so getting 60% on anything is scary. Best we can do is review those 200 questions, and keep on practicing these last 3 or so weeks.

I got a raw of 134/200, and I don't feel safe at all either. I'm normally in that range, but I have also scored higher and slightly lower. I feel like any little thing can cause me to miss an extra 15 on test day and then i'm fucked.

[jkpolk]

Some days I just pray to the god of sex and drugs and rock and roll

[Confused7]

Does anyone else feel woefully unprepared for the real test despite doing reasonably "well" on the simulated MBE? The suggested raw score at this point 110-120 is fine, but all my wrong answers (and there were A LOT) just remind of me all the things I still don't know and have to memorize on top of the NY distinctions.

I feel it's probably a common feeling. Law school people are competitive and have succeeded in the past, so getting 60% on anything is scary. Best we can do is review those 200 questions, and keep on practicing these last 3 or so weeks.

I got a raw of 134/200, and I don't feel safe at all either. I'm normally in that range, but I have also scored higher and slightly lower. I feel like any little thing can cause me to miss an extra 15 on test day and then i'm fucked.

Thanks for commiserating with me. I definitely feel like I could miss an extra 15 or 50. I'm reviewing the answers now but my brain is so drained from this marathon. Hopefully the lectures tomorrow will be useful and give me another chance to review.

[somuchbooty]

Is anyone else losing their mind? I took some advil, sat down, answered some MBE questions, then realized I needed to take advil and almost did it again.

[onymous]

What percentage are we supposed to be right now? I'm in MO, and I'm only at 46%, which I know is significantly behind.

[misterjames]

to my fellow NY takers, anyone else a bit surprised at Themis' lack of emphasis on Family law? considering it's the third most tested essay topic and we covered it like a month ago...

[gr8scOtt!]

Is anyone else losing their mind? I took some advil, sat down, answered some MBE questions, then realized I needed to take advil and almost did it again.

I drink Diet Coke. Went to the grocery store on Sunday. Bought soda. Just realized today that I bought and have been drinking Diet Pepsi. So yes. Losing my mind.

[Confused7]

I'm having difficulty separating defense of a person v.s. defense of property in a question about burglary. Here is the question from today's MBE:

[+] Spoiler

A uniformed police officer learned about a possible burglary of a home and went to investigate. When the officer arrived, she attempted to get into the home through the front door, but found it locked. Going to the back of the home, the officer found a door slightly open. Drawing her gun, she entered the home and announced that she was a police officer. The homeowner, honestly but unreasonably fearing that the officer was the person who had broken into the home earlier, shot and killed the officer. The homeowner was charged with murder of the police officer. The jurisdiction recognizes “imperfect” self-defense. Can the homeowner be convicted of this crime?

A) Yes, because homeowner killed the police officer.
B) Yes, because the homeowner’s use of deadly force was unreasonable.
C) No, because the homeowner had no duty to retreat before using deadly force.
D) No, because the homeowner honestly believed that the police officer threatened him with death or serious bodily injury.

D is the correct answer. I can definitely see why D would be right because it fulfills the imperfect self-defense criteria. But I hate that the fact that the homeowner honestly believed that the officer "threatened him with death or serious bodily injury" was in an answer choice, and not in the facts. I didn't get that sense from the facts, so I thought that the use of deadly force was unreasonable. I also thought this might be a defense of property question since the homeowner was in his house and the theft offenses are also felonies (burglary's definition encompasses the intent to commit a felony therein), in which case deadly force would never be allowed. But I can see how it would not apply, though I'm still confused as to how to separate defense of property from defense of a person when something occurs in the home.

[somuchbooty]

I'm having difficulty separating defense of a person v.s. defense of property in a question about burglary. Here is the question from today's MBE:

[+] Spoiler

A uniformed police officer learned about a possible burglary of a home and went to investigate. When the officer arrived, she attempted to get into the home through the front door, but found it locked. Going to the back of the home, the officer found a door slightly open. Drawing her gun, she entered the home and announced that she was a police officer. The homeowner, honestly but unreasonably fearing that the officer was the person who had broken into the home earlier, shot and killed the officer. The homeowner was charged with murder of the police officer. The jurisdiction recognizes “imperfect” self-defense. Can the homeowner be convicted of this crime?

A) Yes, because homeowner killed the police officer.
B) Yes, because the homeowner’s use of deadly force was unreasonable.
C) No, because the homeowner had no duty to retreat before using deadly force.
D) No, because the homeowner honestly believed that the police officer threatened him with death or serious bodily injury.

D is the correct answer. I can definitely see why D would be right because it fulfills the imperfect self-defense criteria. But I hate that the fact that the homeowner honestly believed that the officer "threatened him with death or serious bodily injury" was in an answer choice, and not in the facts. I didn't get that sense from the facts, so I thought that the use of deadly force was unreasonable. I also thought this might be a defense of property question since the homeowner was in his house and the theft offenses are also felonies (burglary's definition encompasses the intent to commit a felony therein), in which case deadly force would never be allowed. But I can see how it would not apply, though I'm still confused as to how to separate defense of property from defense of a person when something occurs in the home.

I could be wrong, but I think there's a presumption that if someone breaks into your house while you are in the house, you are allowed to assume that they are threatening you with death or serious bodily injury. It makes sense, because usually, it's going to be dark, so it just gives the homeowner the right to reasonably believe that anyone breaking in their house may want to kill them.

Doesn't give the right to shoot someone running away with your TV or set up a trap gun obviously.

[healthnut]

Any idea on how to submit additional essays for grading? Emailed my advisor, but I bet you all are faster! Thank you!

[edit: didn't realized this was asked above!]

I'll let you all know once I find out!

[Confused7]

I'm having difficulty separating defense of a person v.s. defense of property in a question about burglary. Here is the question from today's MBE:

[+] Spoiler

A uniformed police officer learned about a possible burglary of a home and went to investigate. When the officer arrived, she attempted to get into the home through the front door, but found it locked. Going to the back of the home, the officer found a door slightly open. Drawing her gun, she entered the home and announced that she was a police officer. The homeowner, honestly but unreasonably fearing that the officer was the person who had broken into the home earlier, shot and killed the officer. The homeowner was charged with murder of the police officer. The jurisdiction recognizes “imperfect” self-defense. Can the homeowner be convicted of this crime?

A) Yes, because homeowner killed the police officer.
B) Yes, because the homeowner’s use of deadly force was unreasonable.
C) No, because the homeowner had no duty to retreat before using deadly force.
D) No, because the homeowner honestly believed that the police officer threatened him with death or serious bodily injury.

D is the correct answer. I can definitely see why D would be right because it fulfills the imperfect self-defense criteria. But I hate that the fact that the homeowner honestly believed that the officer "threatened him with death or serious bodily injury" was in an answer choice, and not in the facts. I didn't get that sense from the facts, so I thought that the use of deadly force was unreasonable. I also thought this might be a defense of property question since the homeowner was in his house and the theft offenses are also felonies (burglary's definition encompasses the intent to commit a felony therein), in which case deadly force would never be allowed. But I can see how it would not apply, though I'm still confused as to how to separate defense of property from defense of a person when something occurs in the home.

I could be wrong, but I think there's a presumption that if someone breaks into your house while you are in the house, you are allowed to assume that they are threatening you with death or serious bodily injury. It makes sense, because usually, it's going to be dark, so it just gives the homeowner the right to reasonably believe that anyone breaking in their house may want to kill them.

Doesn't give the right to shoot someone running away with your TV or set up a trap gun obviously.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks! I guess I should just always assume that a homeowner can assume that an unknown person entering his house is threatening him with death or serious bodily injury, even if not stated in the facts. It's hard to know sometimes because some answer choices allow you to assume outside the facts ("which one of these, if true...") and others just supply extraneous/wrong information that you're not supposed to follow outside the facts.

[zot1]

How is everyone going about memorizing rule statements? I'm in a slight panic about there being so much info that I have to recite purely from memory, especially with under 3 weeks left. At least with the MBE the answer is in front of you.

I usually have problems on the essays for this reason because my rule statements are not quite right. I called my advisor and she had me take today to just write down statements from the sample answers of all essays I've taken. I'm hoping this will work somehow.

Still not done doing this, although I have taken normal workout and eating breaks. Nevertheless, I'm starting to worry that I just wasted my day. Hopefully I didn't.

[GULCPerson]

I'm having difficulty separating defense of a person v.s. defense of property in a question about burglary. Here is the question from today's MBE:

[+] Spoiler

A uniformed police officer learned about a possible burglary of a home and went to investigate. When the officer arrived, she attempted to get into the home through the front door, but found it locked. Going to the back of the home, the officer found a door slightly open. Drawing her gun, she entered the home and announced that she was a police officer. The homeowner, honestly but unreasonably fearing that the officer was the person who had broken into the home earlier, shot and killed the officer. The homeowner was charged with murder of the police officer. The jurisdiction recognizes “imperfect” self-defense. Can the homeowner be convicted of this crime?

A) Yes, because homeowner killed the police officer.
B) Yes, because the homeowner’s use of deadly force was unreasonable.
C) No, because the homeowner had no duty to retreat before using deadly force.
D) No, because the homeowner honestly believed that the police officer threatened him with death or serious bodily injury.

D is the correct answer. I can definitely see why D would be right because it fulfills the imperfect self-defense criteria. But I hate that the fact that the homeowner honestly believed that the officer "threatened him with death or serious bodily injury" was in an answer choice, and not in the facts. I didn't get that sense from the facts, so I thought that the use of deadly force was unreasonable. I also thought this might be a defense of property question since the homeowner was in his house and the theft offenses are also felonies (burglary's definition encompasses the intent to commit a felony therein), in which case deadly force would never be allowed. But I can see how it would not apply, though I'm still confused as to how to separate defense of property from defense of a person when something occurs in the home.

I could be wrong, but I think there's a presumption that if someone breaks into your house while you are in the house, you are allowed to assume that they are threatening you with death or serious bodily injury. It makes sense, because usually, it's going to be dark, so it just gives the homeowner the right to reasonably believe that anyone breaking in their house may want to kill them.

Doesn't give the right to shoot someone running away with your TV or set up a trap gun obviously.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks! I guess I should just always assume that a homeowner can assume that an unknown person entering his house is threatening him with death or serious bodily injury, even if not stated in the facts. It's hard to know sometimes because some answer choices allow you to assume outside the facts ("which one of these, if true...") and others just supply extraneous/wrong information that you're not supposed to follow outside the facts.

Also, in this case the stranger was entering his house with a gun drawn, which would also strongly suggest threat of death/bodily injury as opposed to just threat of burglary.