Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[TooManyLoans]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

It may be. I literally have no idea what Im talking about. Id love if someone whos put the time in would tell me what I need to pass.

Found this from a different thread: Someone got a 15,11,8,13,12,11 on the essays in PA and a 13.5 on the PT for a scaled score of 146. So for the essays that an average of 11.66 or (58%) with the PT its 11.92 average or (60%).

If you get 75% on the MBE your scaled score would be around 150 to 160. So 272 to pass minus 150 is 122. 60% on the essays would put you way in the clear.

[drs36]

Any idea how the Themis MBE PQ's actually relate to the real MBE Q's in terms of difficulty?

Looks like if you crush the MBE and Performance Test in PA, you've got a LOT of leeway w/ the essays.

[bport hopeful]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

It may be. I literally have no idea what Im talking about. Id love if someone whos put the time in would tell me what I need to pass.

Found this from a different thread: Someone got a 15,11,8,13,12,11 on the essays in PA and a 13.5 on the PT for a scaled score of 146. So for the essays that an average of 11.66 or (58%) with the PT its 11.92 average or (60%).

If you get 75% on the MBE your scaled score would be around 150 to 160. So 272 to pass minus 150 is 122. 60% on the essays would put you way in the clear.

I hope NY is similar, but that would be too convenient. Thanks for the info.

[northwood]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

It may be. I literally have no idea what Im talking about. Id love if someone whos put the time in would tell me what I need to pass.

all i know is you need a 665 to pass in NY. There are 1,00 possible points on this sucker, and the breakdown is as follows 10% NYMC, 40% essay 40%MBE 10% MPT

what you need to DO to reach that magical number is beyond me. I guess each essay is worth 8% of your overall grade and each MBE subject is worth 1/6 of 40% of your overall MBE score ( what the math is for that I cannot compute). For me that means just, plug, chug, chug( some coffee), eat, sleep, and go from tomorrow until they call TIME at each of the 4 breaks. Then forget about this hazing ritual until the end of October/ early November.( if I could be perpetually drunk until then, that would be great- but that is an impossibility of which I will not even attempt to disprove)

as of now, just take it one section/question/topic of each subject at a time, then slowly worry about each subject as you go through it- and focus on only 1 per day for the next 18 days

[northwood]

and while it is a very important test, its not the end of you or the world if you don't pass. don't worry about that now( obviously) and dont think that you will fail, but know full well that its just one stupid, silly ( albeit important) test that has no reflection on you as a person or your intelligence.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Any idea how the Themis MBE PQ's actually relate to the real MBE Q's in terms of difficulty?

Looks like if you crush the MBE and Performance Test in PA, you've got a LOT of leeway w/ the essays.

I believe 75% of Themis MBE practice questions are actual released questions from the NCBE, from previous exams, and 25% of the MBE practice questions are written by Themis.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

and while it is a very important test, its not the end of you or the world if you don't pass. don't worry about that now( obviously) and dont think that you will fail, but know full well that its just one stupid, silly ( albeit important) test that has no reflection on you as a person or your intelligence.

Couldn't agree more!!

[puttycake]

Anyone care to take a stab at what this California evidence rule means?

In my summary outline, regarding prior inconsistent statements:

In California, "extrinsic evidence made in writing admissible w/out actual showing of document."

How would that work?

[bedefan]

I'm kind of disturbed at how ambiguous and poorly drafted some of the NCBE MBE questions are. I had been hoping the worst offenders (in my opinion anyway) were all Themis questions, but poking around I've discovered that some are real NCBE questions...

Ugh. Trying to consistently get 75%+ correct to be in the autopass zone for Illinois, and I just don't know if I can do it. Hovering around the low 70s for a while now. Even when I know every rule exactly and can pinpoint the precise difference between two answers, I often get it wrong because the question seems vaguely worded to me...

[Tanicius]

Ugh. Trying to consistently get 75%+ correct to be in the autopass zone for Illinois, and I just don't know if I can do it. Hovering around the low 70s for a while now. Even when I know every rule exactly and can pinpoint the precise difference between two answers, I often get it wrong because the question seems vaguely worded to me...

Yup. I just don't seem to get above my window from a month ago. I don't make the same substantive errors I did back then, but there's always something new.

[northwood]

just out of curiosity how is it possible to memorize the important stuff foe each subject? I did a few family law essays the other day- and when I just looked at another one- I didn't remember the applicable rules

[jigglypuffdreams]

MI Test Takers: What are your thoughts the BLE's announcement regarding the new essay scaling they're putting into effect? I can't really imagine that it'll be anything than good for us. It sounds like an attempt to remedy the appallingly low passage rates as of late (presumably due to the low essay scores). Is anyone else somewhat excited about this news?

I got another check-in phone call from the Michigan rep today and asked her about it, she thinks it's a good thing and says she talked to the bar examiners and still doesn't understand all the details herself. She says that the whole "essay *4/3" thing is gone, but essays are still half of your score and will just be scaled to past exams. Our law school dean sent out a message saying that it was not bad news but sternly reminding us that we should still keep on studying just as much as we were before. So if our school administration thinks there's a chance we're going to stop studying for the bar because of this news, I'm guessing it's pretty good news.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

MI Test Takers: What are your thoughts the BLE's announcement regarding the new essay scaling they're putting into effect? I can't really imagine that it'll be anything than good for us. It sounds like an attempt to remedy the appallingly low passage rates as of late (presumably due to the low essay scores). Is anyone else somewhat excited about this news?

I got another check-in phone call from the Michigan rep today and asked her about it, she thinks it's a good thing and says she talked to the bar examiners and still doesn't understand all the details herself. She says that the whole "essay *4/3" thing is gone, but essays are still half of your score and will just be scaled to past exams. Our law school dean sent out a message saying that it was not bad news but sternly reminding us that we should still keep on studying just as much as we were before. So if our school administration thinks there's a chance we're going to stop studying for the bar because of this news, I'm guessing it's pretty good news.

If anyone has some good news for CA test takers, please send it this way!!! *sniffle* *sniffle*

[klbisho4]

I really, really detest just how different the remedies are for landsale contracts and common law and UCC contracts. These real property landsale contract questions that involve remedies rules were literally never covered by any of the Themis materials. The landsale contract section in the long outline is like two pages long and doesn't even go into this.

22. (Question ID#1412)
A seller owned Goldacre, a tract of land, in fee simple. The seller and a purchaser entered into a written agreement under which the purchaser agreed to buy Goldacre for $100,000, its fair market value. The agreement contained all the essential terms of a real estate contract to sell and buy, including a date for closing. The required $50,000 down payment was made. The contract provided that in the event of the purchaser's breach, the seller could retain the $50,000 deposit as liquidated damages. Before the date set for the closing in the contract, the purchaser died. On the day that a relative was duly qualified as administratrix of the estate of the purchaser, which was after the closing date, the relative made demand for return of the $50,000 deposit. The seller responded by stating that he took such demand to be a declaration that the relative did not intend to complete the contract and that the seller considered the contract at an end. The seller further asserted that the seller was entitled to retain, as liquidated damages, the $50,000. The reasonable market value of Goldacre had increased to $110,000 at that time. The relative brought an appropriate action against the seller to recover the $50,000. In answer, the seller made no affirmative claim but asserted that he was entitled to retain the $50,000 as liquidated damages as provided in the contract.

In such lawsuit, judgment should be for
A. the relative, because the provision relied upon by the seller is unenforceable.
B. the relative, because the death of the purchaser terminated the contract as a matter of law.
C. the seller, because the court should enforce the express agreement of the contracting parties.
D. the seller, because the doctrine of equitable conversion prevents termination of the contract upon the death of a party.
Incorrect: Answer choice A is correct. A non-breaching seller may collect liquidated money damages for costs reasonably related to the seller's damages, but it is unlikely a court will enforce the clause in a situation such as this, if the seller suffered no damages (and the value of his property increased). Thus, answer choices C and D are incorrect. Answer choice B is incorrect because the death of a purchaser does not terminate the contract. Instead, the heirs would take the real property, and would have to pay the purchase price out of the personalty.

Chose C, cause in a normal contracts question that would be pretty much the default answer.

I got this one right, but it had nothing to do with knowing property law. I applied the rule from contracts that liquidated damages won't be enforced if they look like a punishment for breaching; the damages provision has to be reasonable at the time it was executed, and here it probably wasn't. I think that's what the Themis explanation is getting at....

I was just about to post this question... I picked "B" because I thought when a person died, the contract was terminated. Is that not the case?

[Tanicius]

I was just about to post this question... I picked "B" because I thought when a person died, the contract was terminated. Is that not the case?

The contract has already been created, so like any other contract not involving service performance by a specific person, the contract is still enforceable. For example, if you agree to buy a car from me, and then you die after taking possession of the car, your estate would still have to pay me. Likewise, if you had paid me before you died but I hadn't yet given you the car, your estate could demand the car.

[Apple Tree]

just out of curiosity how is it possible to memorize the important stuff foe each subject? I did a few family law essays the other day- and when I just looked at another one- I didn't remember the applicable rules

The exact same thing keeps happening to me. It's really discouraging. I've kinda accepted that I won't be able to remember all the rules before exam, but I'll try my best to remember as much as I can.

[lsutiger1987]

Should I be worried by only getting a 50% score on my MBE simulation?

[Tanicius]

just out of curiosity how is it possible to memorize the important stuff foe each subject? I did a few family law essays the other day- and when I just looked at another one- I didn't remember the applicable rules

The exact same thing keeps happening to me. It's really discouraging. I've kinda accepted that I won't be able to remember all the rules before exam, but I'll try my best to remember as much as I can.

Don't worry, I've gone through the same frustration with family law and Articles 3/9 of the UCC (Secured Trans and Comm Paper). What happens is that, after you do a few of the essays, you'll be familiar with the most common types of issues that get tested. The thing is, most of these topics are not large bodies of law -- there are only so many ways they get tested. An MBE subject like Contracts encompasses more than three times as much law as Family Law. With Family Law, you basically got know the basics of a marriage, some info about premarital agreements, child custody/support, spousal support, and the interstate conflict of law issues that crop up when a party tries to divorce or sue for custody in a state where they didn't get married. If you do like three Family Law essays, you'll cover those rules in full and will start to get used to the correct rules.

And even if that's too much for the two weeks you have left, remember: (1) best interests of the child, and (2) support orders and premarital agreements should generally be "reasonable." You'll get at least some points on an issue involving custody/support for children and prenups/alimony for spouses.

[SisyphusHappy]

Going along with the "I have no idea how this thing is graded" theme of today...

How are pass rates so high? My state has like a 94% pass rate for first-time takers, yet I'm constantly in fear of failing. Is it easy to be in the bottom six percent? I got 70% on the practice MBE, but I'm AWFUL at the essays (like, 33% on the last one). How worried should I be? Do scores go up drastically in the next couple of weeks?

Tl;dr: My math says I'm going to fail, but I feel like that doesn't match up with the percentiles.

[Lilly76]

just out of curiosity how is it possible to memorize the important stuff foe each subject? I did a few family law essays the other day- and when I just looked at another one- I didn't remember the applicable rules

I've written out the rule statements for important stuff in a way I'd like to write them on the exam, and then I spend a couple hours just typing them over and over again. I know come exam day with time constraints and stress I won't remember everything or remember it exactly how I practiced it, but I'll remember the key points. I haven't done this for family law yet, though.

[puttycake]

just out of curiosity how is it possible to memorize the important stuff foe each subject? I did a few family law essays the other day- and when I just looked at another one- I didn't remember the applicable rules

I've written out the rule statements for important stuff in a way I'd like to write them on the exam, and then I spend a couple hours just typing them over and over again. I know come exam day with time constraints and stress I won't remember everything or remember it exactly how I practiced it, but I'll remember the key points. I haven't done this for family law yet, though.

I think this is a very good way to practice because being able to do it does two things: 1. obviously, you get the rule statements, and 2. if you have the rule statements available to you automatically, you'll often have a good idea how to get started with the essay, just by dashing them down (or just the headers for them).

Say you have a Civil Procedure essay (no idea which states have them) and you can just rattle off subject matter jurisdiction rule statements. Well, you now have the rule statement and know exactly what you need to demonstrate with the facts from the essay. That's a good start!

[northwood]

ill start doing that. I know that's how I learn best ( and I know I have to hand write them 5 times each like I did when I was learning how to spell words in elementary school ) but its such a time consuming endeavor I wasn't sure it was the best use of my time

[Gotti]

does anyone have a useful contracts chart that shows the differences between common law and UCC? I'd make one but I SUCK at making charts like that and I feel like it would be a huge confusing waste of time ending up in a mess if i were make one myself.

[Lilly76]

ill start doing that. I know that's how I learn best ( and I know I have to hand write them 5 times each like I did when I was learning how to spell words in elementary school ) but its such a time consuming endeavor I wasn't sure it was the best use of my time

Yeah, it's a time suck, but if it's how you learn then definitely give it a try. Then just issue spot the practice essays and see if if you can write out the relevant rules. I got tired of my advisor telling me that my analysis and structure were good, but that she could see the gaps in my knowledge and that I should spend more time memorizing the law.

[MICritter]

MI Test Takers: What are your thoughts the BLE's announcement regarding the new essay scaling they're putting into effect? I can't really imagine that it'll be anything than good for us. It sounds like an attempt to remedy the appallingly low passage rates as of late (presumably due to the low essay scores). Is anyone else somewhat excited about this news?

I got another check-in phone call from the Michigan rep today and asked her about it, she thinks it's a good thing and says she talked to the bar examiners and still doesn't understand all the details herself. She says that the whole "essay *4/3" thing is gone, but essays are still half of your score and will just be scaled to past exams. Our law school dean sent out a message saying that it was not bad news but sternly reminding us that we should still keep on studying just as much as we were before. So if our school administration thinks there's a chance we're going to stop studying for the bar because of this news, I'm guessing it's pretty good news.

Good deal. I know that the BLE statement said that the change was welcomed by the law school deans and, since they're generally on our side regarding bar passage, it sounds like a good thing. Either way, I don't plan on changing a thing about my studying...I'm just hoping that it will make August-November a little bit less worrisome.