Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Lasers]

ugh, woke up for the simulated test and my head was POUNDING. had an allergic reaction yesterday and i guess my body is still listless. decided to just do the simulation at home tomorrow.

i'll just start my essay review today instead.

[bobanderson]

So, on question 35 of the Sim, why is the well-practiced knife thrower guy who consistently hits a dime target acting recklessly in a manner indifferent to human life? It seems that his consistency and lifetime of practice would negate the "reckless" portion, but apparently not...

Hes throwing knives at people.

Edit: That was smarmier than I intended.

Yeah, but, it's an (very uncommon) circus act that has been around for a while. Was a little surprised to find out that the consequence if you screwed up for that was murder. That's a lot of liability. Maybe that's why it's so uncommon.

I had a huge debate with my boyfriend on this question. I just watched the lecture explanation and he said it is because the question prompt says what is the most serious crime he CAN be charged with, rather than "will" or "likely" or whatever. Apparently a jury could find that he didn't have the requisite skill to throw them without reckless indifference.

[Tanicius]

Fuck these property questions. My property scores have gone nowhere but down ever since I started taking the very first problem sets. My overall average went down from 60 to 58, then 56, and hell, this current Property section I've got 3/8 questions correct so far.

[MICritter]

So, on question 35 of the Sim, why is the well-practiced knife thrower guy who consistently hits a dime target acting recklessly in a manner indifferent to human life? It seems that his consistency and lifetime of practice would negate the "reckless" portion, but apparently not...

Hes throwing knives at people.

Edit: That was smarmier than I intended.

Yeah, but, it's an (very uncommon) circus act that has been around for a while. Was a little surprised to find out that the consequence if you screwed up for that was murder. That's a lot of liability. Maybe that's why it's so uncommon.

I had a huge debate with my boyfriend on this question. I just watched the lecture explanation and he said it is because the question prompt says what is the most serious crime he CAN be charged with, rather than "will" or "likely" or whatever. Apparently a jury could find that he didn't have the requisite skill to throw them without reckless indifference.

This was my take on it as well. The question kind of tricks you into trying to determine whether the conduct was reckless. That's more of a question for the jury and, as long as there is a question, he could be charged with second degree murder.

On a slightly related note, the crim law questions grievously battered me on the Simulated MBE. They were my strongest subject before. Themis is making me feel more emotions than I've felt in 27 years of living.

[bport hopeful]

I realized recently that I really dont have a firm grasp on how this is going to be graded.

[MICritter]

MI Test Takers: What are your thoughts the BLE's announcement regarding the new essay scaling they're putting into effect? I can't really imagine that it'll be anything than good for us. It sounds like an attempt to remedy the appallingly low passage rates as of late (presumably due to the low essay scores). Is anyone else somewhat excited about this news?

[champ33]

I realized recently that I really dont have a firm grasp on how this is going to be graded.

Ditto.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Fuck these property questions. My property scores have gone nowhere but down ever since I started taking the very first problem sets. My overall average went down from 60 to 58, then 56, and hell, this current Property section I've got 3/8 questions correct so far.

Property is also my lowest score for MBEs (just horrible!!), but what's really weird is that in the last practice test I did, I got 100% correct on the mortgage questions! That's a weird twist!! If there's one thing that's consistent, it's that nothing is consistent!! lol!

[Tanicius]

Fuck these property questions. My property scores have gone nowhere but down ever since I started taking the very first problem sets. My overall average went down from 60 to 58, then 56, and hell, this current Property section I've got 3/8 questions correct so far.

Property is also my lowest score for MBEs (just horrible!!), but what's really weird is that in the last practice test I did, I got 100% correct on the mortgage questions! That's a weird twist!! If there's one thing that's consistent, it's that nothing is consistent!! lol!

I nail the mortgage questions if it's clear that the mortgage or creditor priority issues are actually the issues getting tested. If they would just grow up and actually ask about the issue that the facts involve, we'd probably all get 80+% on these questions. Instead they gotta act like a snarky teenager who writes bad jokes but thinks he's God's gift to humor. Half the time it's something dumb like a recording priority buried in the middle of the 5-five fact pattern, and the answer doesn't mention anything about it but that's the controlling fact.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Fuck these property questions. My property scores have gone nowhere but down ever since I started taking the very first problem sets. My overall average went down from 60 to 58, then 56, and hell, this current Property section I've got 3/8 questions correct so far.

Property is also my lowest score for MBEs (just horrible!!), but what's really weird is that in the last practice test I did, I got 100% correct on the mortgage questions! That's a weird twist!! If there's one thing that's consistent, it's that nothing is consistent!! lol!

I nail the mortgage questions if it's clear that the mortgage or creditor priority issues are actually the issues getting tested. If they would just grow up and actually ask about the issue that the facts involve, we'd probably all get 80+% on these questions. Instead they gotta act like a snarky teenager who writes bad jokes but thinks he's God's gift to humor. Half the time it's something dumb like a recording priority buried in the middle of the 5-five fact pattern, and the answer doesn't mention anything about it but that's the controlling fact.

Yep! I was just saying yesterday that it's like the whole "hide the ball" situation all over again, like in 1L. We should be past all of the games by now! I know it's important to spot hidden issues in complicated cases in real life, but this stuff is just NUTS... waaaay too far removed from reality.

[bport hopeful]

I realized recently that I really dont have a firm grasp on how this is going to be graded.

Ditto.

This seems like valuable info

[kapital98]

I realized recently that I really dont have a firm grasp on how this is going to be graded.

I'm still fooling myself thinking I have a clue. In 2 weeks I'll be right where you are.

[bport hopeful]

I realized recently that I really dont have a firm grasp on how this is going to be graded.

I'm still fooling myself thinking I have a clue. In 2 weeks I'll be right where you are.

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

[Tanicius]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

[whirledpeas86]

On the simulation review, are some of the lecture portions not showing up for you? I only have 4 parts of the torts review lectures, and I watched all of them but there are still more questions left to cover. It seems like the 5th video is missing...

[Tanicius]

On the simulation review, are some of the lecture portions not showing up for you? I only have 4 parts of the torts review lectures, and I watched all of them but there are still more questions left to cover. It seems like the 5th video is missing...

Non-MEE state right? AFIK in MEE jurisdictions we don't even get an essay review.

[bport hopeful]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

It may be. I literally have no idea what Im talking about. Id love if someone whos put the time in would tell me what I need to pass.

[yips]

On the simulation review, are some of the lecture portions not showing up for you? I only have 4 parts of the torts review lectures, and I watched all of them but there are still more questions left to cover. It seems like the 5th video is missing...

I had this problem earlier in the week, but it seems to have resolved itself mysteriously.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

It may be. I literally have no idea what Im talking about. Id love if someone whos put the time in would tell me what I need to pass.

It's so complicated. I got a 71% on a practice MBE test yesterday and would love to know what that means I'd need to get on the CA essays (my BIG weakness - just hoping I don't get any 40s!) and the PTs, but I haven't a clue. Oh well I guess we should all just try to do the best we can.

[Tanicius]

I really, really detest just how different the remedies are for landsale contracts and common law and UCC contracts. These real property landsale contract questions that involve remedies rules were literally never covered by any of the Themis materials. The landsale contract section in the long outline is like two pages long and doesn't even go into this.

22. (Question ID#1412)
A seller owned Goldacre, a tract of land, in fee simple. The seller and a purchaser entered into a written agreement under which the purchaser agreed to buy Goldacre for $100,000, its fair market value. The agreement contained all the essential terms of a real estate contract to sell and buy, including a date for closing. The required $50,000 down payment was made. The contract provided that in the event of the purchaser's breach, the seller could retain the $50,000 deposit as liquidated damages. Before the date set for the closing in the contract, the purchaser died. On the day that a relative was duly qualified as administratrix of the estate of the purchaser, which was after the closing date, the relative made demand for return of the $50,000 deposit. The seller responded by stating that he took such demand to be a declaration that the relative did not intend to complete the contract and that the seller considered the contract at an end. The seller further asserted that the seller was entitled to retain, as liquidated damages, the $50,000. The reasonable market value of Goldacre had increased to $110,000 at that time. The relative brought an appropriate action against the seller to recover the $50,000. In answer, the seller made no affirmative claim but asserted that he was entitled to retain the $50,000 as liquidated damages as provided in the contract.

In such lawsuit, judgment should be for
A. the relative, because the provision relied upon by the seller is unenforceable.
B. the relative, because the death of the purchaser terminated the contract as a matter of law.
C. the seller, because the court should enforce the express agreement of the contracting parties.
D. the seller, because the doctrine of equitable conversion prevents termination of the contract upon the death of a party.
Incorrect: Answer choice A is correct. A non-breaching seller may collect liquidated money damages for costs reasonably related to the seller's damages, but it is unlikely a court will enforce the clause in a situation such as this, if the seller suffered no damages (and the value of his property increased). Thus, answer choices C and D are incorrect. Answer choice B is incorrect because the death of a purchaser does not terminate the contract. Instead, the heirs would take the real property, and would have to pay the purchase price out of the personalty.

Chose C, cause in a normal contracts question that would be pretty much the default answer.

[kapital98]

Im taking NY, PA friends are telling me if you get 75% of the MBE, you only need like 60% of the essay points.

I feel like that is a ton of essay points. I feel very lucky to spot most of the issues and write the rules correctly on my essay assignments.

It may be. I literally have no idea what Im talking about. Id love if someone whos put the time in would tell me what I need to pass.

Seperac.com is your best source for NY breakdowns. Go down to the section on the main page titled "NY Bar Exam Calculators". Start reading everything about them and tweaking the calculators to see how different scores change the results. Look through the Score Matrix to get a good idea of how different scores on individual parts result in total scores. It's an incredible amount of information and well worth the time.

[kapital98]

This question is *ridiculous*! [licensed]

On November 1, the following notice was posted in a privately-operated law school:

The faculty, seeking to encourage legal research, offers to any student at this school who wins the current National Obscenity Law Competition the additional prize of $500. All competing papers must be submitted to the Dean's office before May 1.
A student read this notice on November 2, and thereupon intensified his effort to make his paper on obscenity law, which he started in October, a winner. The student also left on a counter in the Dean's office a signed note saying, "I accept the faculty's $500 Obscenity Competition offer." This note was inadvertently placed in the student's file and never reached the Dean or any faculty member personally. On the following April 1, the above notice was removed and the following substituted therefore:

The faculty regrets that our offer regarding the National Obscenity Law Competition must be withdrawn.
The student's paper was submitted through the Dean's office on April 15. On May 1, it was announced that the student had won the National Obscenity Law Competition and the prize of $1,000. The law faculty refused to pay anything.

The promise of the faculty on November 1 was


A. enforceable on principles of promissory estoppel.
B. enforceable by the student's personal representative even if the student had been killed in an accident on April 16.
C. not enforceable on policy grounds because it produced a noncommercial agreement between a student and his teachers, analogous to intramural family agreement and informal social commitments.
D. not enforceable, because the student, after entering the National Competition in October, was already under a duty to perform to the best of his ability.

Answer B is correct because, "Even if the student were killed on April 16, the student's representative would still be entitled to enforce the faculty's promise because the requested performance (completion of the winning research paper) was completed and because the faculty's attempt to revoke the offer on April 1 was ineffective."

THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THE STUDENT BEING KILLED IN THE PROMPT!!! I want to hit myself on the head for how awful this question was.

[Tanicius]

This question is *ridiculous*! [licensed]


THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THE STUDENT BEING KILLED IN THE PROMPT!!! I want to hit myself on the head for how awful this question was.

I specifically remember laughing at that question when I came across it. Can't remember if I got it right or not because I took it in test mode.

[mmmnnn]

I really, really detest just how different the remedies are for landsale contracts and common law and UCC contracts. These real property landsale contract questions that involve remedies rules were literally never covered by any of the Themis materials. The landsale contract section in the long outline is like two pages long and doesn't even go into this.

22. (Question ID#1412)
A seller owned Goldacre, a tract of land, in fee simple. The seller and a purchaser entered into a written agreement under which the purchaser agreed to buy Goldacre for $100,000, its fair market value. The agreement contained all the essential terms of a real estate contract to sell and buy, including a date for closing. The required $50,000 down payment was made. The contract provided that in the event of the purchaser's breach, the seller could retain the $50,000 deposit as liquidated damages. Before the date set for the closing in the contract, the purchaser died. On the day that a relative was duly qualified as administratrix of the estate of the purchaser, which was after the closing date, the relative made demand for return of the $50,000 deposit. The seller responded by stating that he took such demand to be a declaration that the relative did not intend to complete the contract and that the seller considered the contract at an end. The seller further asserted that the seller was entitled to retain, as liquidated damages, the $50,000. The reasonable market value of Goldacre had increased to $110,000 at that time. The relative brought an appropriate action against the seller to recover the $50,000. In answer, the seller made no affirmative claim but asserted that he was entitled to retain the $50,000 as liquidated damages as provided in the contract.

In such lawsuit, judgment should be for
A. the relative, because the provision relied upon by the seller is unenforceable.
B. the relative, because the death of the purchaser terminated the contract as a matter of law.
C. the seller, because the court should enforce the express agreement of the contracting parties.
D. the seller, because the doctrine of equitable conversion prevents termination of the contract upon the death of a party.
Incorrect: Answer choice A is correct. A non-breaching seller may collect liquidated money damages for costs reasonably related to the seller's damages, but it is unlikely a court will enforce the clause in a situation such as this, if the seller suffered no damages (and the value of his property increased). Thus, answer choices C and D are incorrect. Answer choice B is incorrect because the death of a purchaser does not terminate the contract. Instead, the heirs would take the real property, and would have to pay the purchase price out of the personalty.

Chose C, cause in a normal contracts question that would be pretty much the default answer.

I got this one right, but it had nothing to do with knowing property law. I applied the rule from contracts that liquidated damages won't be enforced if they look like a punishment for breaching; the damages provision has to be reasonable at the time it was executed, and here it probably wasn't. I think that's what the Themis explanation is getting at....

[blue920]

This question is *ridiculous*! [licensed]

On November 1, the following notice was posted in a privately-operated law school:

The faculty, seeking to encourage legal research, offers to any student at this school who wins the current National Obscenity Law Competition the additional prize of $500. All competing papers must be submitted to the Dean's office before May 1.
A student read this notice on November 2, and thereupon intensified his effort to make his paper on obscenity law, which he started in October, a winner. The student also left on a counter in the Dean's office a signed note saying, "I accept the faculty's $500 Obscenity Competition offer." This note was inadvertently placed in the student's file and never reached the Dean or any faculty member personally. On the following April 1, the above notice was removed and the following substituted therefore:

The faculty regrets that our offer regarding the National Obscenity Law Competition must be withdrawn.
The student's paper was submitted through the Dean's office on April 15. On May 1, it was announced that the student had won the National Obscenity Law Competition and the prize of $1,000. The law faculty refused to pay anything.

The promise of the faculty on November 1 was


A. enforceable on principles of promissory estoppel.
B. enforceable by the student's personal representative even if the student had been killed in an accident on April 16.
C. not enforceable on policy grounds because it produced a noncommercial agreement between a student and his teachers, analogous to intramural family agreement and informal social commitments.
D. not enforceable, because the student, after entering the National Competition in October, was already under a duty to perform to the best of his ability.

Answer B is correct because, "Even if the student were killed on April 16, the student's representative would still be entitled to enforce the faculty's promise because the requested performance (completion of the winning research paper) was completed and because the faculty's attempt to revoke the offer on April 1 was ineffective."

THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THE STUDENT BEING KILLED IN THE PROMPT!!! I want to hit myself on the head for how awful this question was.

I haven't come across that question yet, but I actually got it right When I saw B, I went back to look for mention that he was killed, of course didn't find anything. But the other answers choices don't work, so back into B. And it doesn't actually say he died, it says if he dies, it's still enforceable.