July 2015 California Bar Exam Forum

[robinhoodOO]

I seriously don't know how I never watched Breaking Bad before. It's amazing and is getting me through the long, agonizing wait to November 20th at 6PM.

Yeah science, bitch!

[acronyx]

Is anyone going back and forth between calmness and fear? Sometimes I feel that, while I definitely didn't ace the thing, I more than likely did well enough to pass. Other times I just focus on those damn 5th and 6th essay questions and that brutal PT-A and am convinced I need to mentally prepare for February. This is such a terrible wait.

People keep asking me about it. I start with, "Well, it has a 49% pass rate..."

[Notorious RBG]

Coming from someone who has been here and done this before, truth is there is no answer. The exam is a straight nightmare. Question #5 I have no idea what the issues or answer might be (take that as a positive). I received a 80 on a question and on re-review a 70 (avg. 75), which is 10 important points. I have recieved a 65 and on re-review a 75 (avg. 70), how two graders can have such a discrepency I. DO. NOT. KNOW. I have thought I nailed a question and gotten a 55 and vice versa. I always laughed at the comments from those who took the exam before me and said it was "half what you know and half your grader," and though I still don't believe it entirely after receiving passing scores from one grader opposed to another I am inclined to believe it. You are at there mercy.

As for the MBE. Ignore it. No one knows. The PT - Know how to format, be logical, explain the situation as you would any other in your everyday life.

I have taken the bar exam before and have completed every BARBRI (waste of money) bar essay in the process. So for those who are new to this, I was a master Q#5. I studied it to death, even got to a point where it wasn't even that hard and pretty simple in actuality. With that said, Q#5 "IMO" was the single hardest question I have seen. Personally, I feel confident because of my knowledge of the subject but the open-ended nature of it and lack of direction was an example of the "bullcrap" that the CA Bar exam pulls on its examinees that I don't believe other states would.

Question #6 is another that I noticed people complain of. Again, people call the CA bar exam "a test of minimum competence." To that person I ask what is "minimally competent about a "out-dated" aspect of "XXX-law?" With that said, before someone retaliates with a comment about how "maybe I should have studied "T@%!&@%," I do say I studied and diagramed that "stuff" 1, 2, 3x within the week because of the off chance that something "so dumb" might actually be tested. Therefore, I did well, still think it was ridiculous. Point is unless you made the legit effort, "who studied Q#6!?!?!?"

Am I bitter? I am bitter, let that be known. It is hard as you can imagine getting over the fact that grader A thinks your answer is "X" while grader B thinks your answer is "Y." There is a subjective element to it which I believe is unfair. There is no doubt in my mind that someone passed that as a "whole" did not as well as I did because grader "A" gave me a score of "X" while grader "B" gave me a score of "Y." In addition, I only care to express my annoyance with the fact that irregardless of the aforementioned, the "CA" bar examiners choose to isolate the passers from the non-passers in what "I believe" to be a unfair process (totally distinguished from the rest of the country) in which they call the exam a test of "minimum competence" but yet test on 18+ subjects, also Q#5 (with zero direction), and also Q#6 (especially A, but overall also dumb).

My whole point is I am just trying to sympathize on as many levels as possible. While I feel confident in myself in certain aspects of the exam as I am sure others also feel, I equally feel as unconfident. "Take-away" from the experience is I am still bitter at the lack of consistency and unfairness (thats my bitterness) but MOSTLY at the bullshit that many are calling the 2015 JULY CA Bar Exam the hardest in recent memory.

P.S. You already own the LOWEST BAR EXAM PASS RATE IN THE COUNTRY (and are way behind the times). 2017 can't come soon enough CA.

Yeah I'm with you that it's definitely unfair and there are elements of subjectivity. Also, as a repeater, I share that feeling of "who knows?" as far as whether I passed. Because the truth is you can do kind of crappy and still pass, and you can do pretty well and still fail. I feel ok about how I did. Whether it was sufficient to pass is up to someone else.

I think the important thing to remember is that the MBEs are hugely important in determining whether one person passes or fails. I think they can be underestimated because the essays kind of freak people out because it's just a blank page staring at you. But really, the essays are not the whole exam. If you do well on the PTs and the MBE, you can actually kind of blow a few of the essays and pass easily. The last time I took the exam, my essays scores would have been enough to pass me had I done just a little better on the MBEs. And yes the essay scores are easy to pick on because they are obviously subjective- pretty much all my essays had a 5-10 point difference depending on graders which as you know makes a huge difference (and had I gotten the nicer grader the first time I would have passed... not that I'm bitter or anything, ha!). But I honestly think that most people who pass do not do that much better on the essays, if they do better at all, than those who fail. I think those who pass just manage to keep the numbers up *just a bit* across the board, or excel at the MBEs. That's my impression.

[941law]

It would just depend on what is the weight of each section? Are you guys waiting until results in November to study again?

Florida Bar is 50% MBE and 50% Florida. I know someone who only studied for MBE. Maybe they'll do well enough to bring up their total average. This person got overwhelmed with studying both areas and just aimed for MBE. If they pass MBE then they will only need to retake the Florida day next time. I'll be very envious of this person if I failed each portion by a little bit and have to study for both portions for February.

[robinhoodOO]

It would just depend on what is the weight of each section? Are you guys waiting until results in November to study again?

Florida Bar is 50% MBE and 50% Florida. I know someone who only studied for MBE. Maybe they'll do well enough to bring up their total average. This person got overwhelmed with studying both areas and just aimed for MBE. If they pass MBE then they will only need to retake the Florida day next time. I'll be very envious of this person if I failed each portion by a little bit and have to study for both portions for February.

I will not look at anything unless I failed (CBX = 11/20). That gives me 3 months--which is more than adequate.

Also, seems weird that Florida would let you do that...Definitely not the case in CA. Does it work the other way if you pass the FL section but bomb the MBE's? Probably not, huh

[941law]

I will not look at anything unless I failed (CBX = 11/20). That gives me 3 months--which is more than adequate.

Also, seems weird that Florida would let you do that...Definitely not the case in CA. Does it work the other way if you pass the FL section but bomb the MBE's? Probably not, huh

Yes, you can pass or fail either portion. You can also show up (and pay?) and just do one portion only. You need a 136 average between the two. If you get a 137 in Florida and a 135 in MBE, you passed the entire thing.

IMO, it makes more sense to focus on the Florida portion because there are essays. Kill those and then guess on MBE. Maybe you'll pull in a 155 and 127 or something and pass all together.

Surpised you guys are waiting until late November to study. I don't blame you. I think it would depend on how confident you were that you failed.

[ilovetheatre]

Yes, you can pass or fail either portion. You can also show up (and pay?) and just do one portion only. You need a 136 average between the two. If you get a 137 in Florida and a 135 in MBE, you passed the entire thing.

IMO, it makes more sense to focus on the Florida portion because there are essays. Kill those and then guess on MBE. Maybe you'll pull in a 155 and 127 or something and pass all together.

Actually, according to this thread, a person taking the Florida bar exam could easily pass by studying just for the MBE. It's much more sensible for good standardized test takers (which most people who attended top laws schools are) to focus their efforts on the seven subject MBE than the essays in Florida.

[LAW813FL]

Yes, you can pass or fail either portion. You can also show up (and pay?) and just do one portion only. You need a 136 average between the two. If you get a 137 in Florida and a 135 in MBE, you passed the entire thing.

IMO, it makes more sense to focus on the Florida portion because there are essays. Kill those and then guess on MBE. Maybe you'll pull in a 155 and 127 or something and pass all together.

Actually, according to this thread, a person taking the Florida bar exam could easily pass by studying just for the MBE. It's much more sensible for good standardized test takers (which most people who attended top laws schools are) to focus their efforts on the seven subject MBE than the essays in Florida.

It's definitely important to focus those subjects, but you can't ignore the Florida subjects because they are likely to be an entire essay and very important on the florida MC, although the essays this past exam were almost all MBE

[robinhoodOO]

I will not look at anything unless I failed (CBX = 11/20). That gives me 3 months--which is more than adequate.

Also, seems weird that Florida would let you do that...Definitely not the case in CA. Does it work the other way if you pass the FL section but bomb the MBE's? Probably not, huh

Yes, you can pass or fail either portion. You can also show up (and pay?) and just do one portion only. You need a 136 average between the two. If you get a 137 in Florida and a 135 in MBE, you passed the entire thing.

IMO, it makes more sense to focus on the Florida portion because there are essays. Kill those and then guess on MBE. Maybe you'll pull in a 155 and 127 or something and pass all together.

Surpised you guys are waiting until late November to study. I don't blame you. I think it would depend on how confident you were that you failed.

Job, 2 kids, coaching soccer, etc., etc. Wouldn't have time even if I wanted to and whatever I look at now I doubt would provide any benefit to me in late Feb. I'd say I'd be surprised if I failed, but I'm ready to deal with the consequences if I did.

[petsoundspop]

I will not look at anything unless I failed (CBX = 11/20). That gives me 3 months--which is more than adequate.

Also, seems weird that Florida would let you do that...Definitely not the case in CA. Does it work the other way if you pass the FL section but bomb the MBE's? Probably not, huh

Yes, you can pass or fail either portion. You can also show up (and pay?) and just do one portion only. You need a 136 average between the two. If you get a 137 in Florida and a 135 in MBE, you passed the entire thing.

IMO, it makes more sense to focus on the Florida portion because there are essays. Kill those and then guess on MBE. Maybe you'll pull in a 155 and 127 or something and pass all together.

Surpised you guys are waiting until late November to study. I don't blame you. I think it would depend on how confident you were that you failed.

Job, 2 kids, coaching soccer, etc., etc. Wouldn't have time even if I wanted to and whatever I look at now I doubt would provide any benefit to me in late Feb. I'd say I'd be surprised if I failed, but I'm ready to deal with the consequences if I did.

I'm with you on this. There is absolutely no way that I'm in the mental space to start thinking about February. At this point, however, I wouldn't be all that surprised if I failed. I think I might have scraped by but this exam was a lot harder than I expected and I walked in feeling very prepared.

[notcool]

.

[a male human]

Can somebody tell me how serious they are about not uninstalling ExamSoft from your computer before results come out?

What if you are probably going to need to wipe everything and reinstall Windows because your computer has gotten so screwed up by malware/a virus/a hacker?

I mean, we already uploaded our exam answers.

I don't know what to do here.

Don't quote me on this, but I think you should be fine as long as you back up your answer files and can produce them if they want to inspect it or they lose your answers, etc. You can always reinstall the SofTest after all.

If your computer is so messed up that you can't even browse your files, then I guess you'll just have to go commando until November.

[a male human]

How's everyone doing?

It's only been one month. The agony and regret should be more of a dull pain by now. The next two months will be decent. When November comes, the anxiety will begin anew.

[rcharter1978]

How's everyone doing?

It's only been one month. The agony and regret should be more of a dull pain by now. The next two months will be decent. When November comes, the anxiety will begin anew.

You're right, it isn't quite the sharp, stabbing pain it was a month ago. I'm avoiding everyone this holiday season.

[robinhoodOO]

How's everyone doing?

It's only been one month. The agony and regret should be more of a dull pain by now. The next two months will be decent. When November comes, the anxiety will begin anew.

The wait just makes me hate the CBX more and more. Especially as other takers from other states start to get their results...

[BuenAbogado]

Does anyone know when the MBE nationwide average scores come out? And whether it's better for the curve if they're low, or good if they're high?

[robinhoodOO]

Does anyone know when the MBE nationwide average scores come out? And whether it's better for the curve if they're low, or good if they're high?

It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that some states have their own "curve" for scaled MBE points. Your raw score is reported if you're located in such a jurisdiction, so it would depend on your jurisdiction.

And, I think the consensus is that if more people do worse, the more scaled points awarded (but, it's nominal and typically a range of 5-15 or so scaled points added).

[odoylerulez]

Does anyone know when the MBE nationwide average scores come out? And whether it's better for the curve if they're low, or good if they're high?

I don't know, but Wisconsin and West Virginia's results came out today, so I hear, and Oklahoma is coming Friday. Wyoming, Kansas, Oregon, and Arkansas are also coming at some point before the end of the week, assuming those aren't out already. But I don't know which states actually release scores.

And, a few states come out 9/11 too, including mine. So, a lot of info will probably start trickling in soon-ish.

[needaday]

[robinhoodOO]

Any idea what the nationwide dip in MBE scores means for those that took the attorneys exam? Is it likely that the written portion will be scaled more generously?

There is absolutely zero reason (IMO) that this would mean the CBX written portion will be scaled more generously. That said, I recall hearing that CBX takers generally perform better on the MBE than the national average.

[Notorious RBG]

So. MBE scores are down nationwide, the lowest since 1988 (or so I've read).

Law schools and professors blame the dumb students. Obviously. And NCBE piles onto the students too. Students say that this is the first time dealing with Civ Pro hence the score drop. Logical. But no, says NCBE, scores across the subjects are pretty even, so it's not Civ Pro's fault!

Um. No! ADDING CIV PRO MAKES IT HARDER BECAUSE YOU ARE ADDING ANOTHER SUBJECT AND NOT SUBTRACTING ANY SUBJECT OR GIVING PEOPLE MORE TIME TO STUDY THEREFORE CREATING AN EVEN LARGER POOL OF POTENTIALLY TESTABLE INFORMATION THAT IS ALREADY INSURMOUNTABLE WITHOUT INTENSE STUDY FOR WEEKS ON END. You added a subject with no historical test questions to study, and just a handful of samples actually available from the NCBE!! The fact that the subjects come out relatively even in the end does not = Civ Pro did not make the test harder. 95% of what makes the Bar difficult is the sheer volume of information, it's not that any one single subject is impossible to understand.

This is so obvious it scares me that the group of people responsible for testing the logical reasoning (in part) of budding attorneys don't get it. WTF.

[gaagoots]

July 2015 questions have been posted to anyone who wishes to raise their heart rate

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals ... stions.pdf

[a male human]

Only a picture of Elms's elbow will raise my heart rate at this point.

[petsoundspop]

July 2015 questions have been posted to anyone who wishes to raise their heart rate

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals ... stions.pdf

Heart rate raised! Man I never want to see that PT-A for the rest of my life. Anyone know when model answers are posted?

[robinhoodOO]

July 2015 questions have been posted to anyone who wishes to raise their heart rate

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals ... stions.pdf

Heart rate raised! Man I never want to see that PT-A for the rest of my life. Anyone know when model answers are posted?

I believe sometime after the results are actually posted.