California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread Forum

[jarofsoup]

Interrogation is defined by the Innis test. Which is:

1. Express questioning OR
2. Any words or actions on the part of the police that the police should know are reasonably likely to elicit an incriminating response from the suspect

[Jay Heizenburg]

Interrogation is defined by the Innis test. Which is:

1. Express questioning OR
2. Any words or actions on the part of the police that the police should know are reasonably likely to elicit an incriminating response from the suspect

Good ...

Now, would you say that P's threat qualifies as an interrogation? And if so, that it was made after D invoked his right to remain silent, but before he made his confession?

[jarofsoup]

Interrogation is defined by the Innis test. Which is:

1. Express questioning OR
2. Any words or actions on the part of the police that the police should know are reasonably likely to elicit an incriminating response from the suspect

Good ...

Now, would you say that P's threat qualifies as an interrogation? And if so, that it was made after D invoked his right to remain silent, but before he made his confession?

It was a custodial interrogation for sure and the confession was in violation of Miranda. But the threat does not qualify as the interrogation on its own...the entire event does. Being in a police station and being questioned by a detective.

[CALawGirl]

I found this interesting & wanted to share:

A statement is involuntary and, thus, inadmissible, if it is obtained by threats or promises of leniency, whether express or implied, however slight, or by the exertion of any improper influence.  (See People v. Clark (1993) 5 Cal.4th 950, 988, 22 Cal.Rptr.2d 689, 857 P.2d 1099;  People v. Benson (1990) 52 Cal.3d 754, 778, 276 Cal.Rptr. 827, 802 P.2d 330;  People v. Jimenez (1978) 21 Cal.3d 595, 611, 147 Cal.Rptr. 172, 580 P.2d 672, overruled on another ground by People v. Cahill (1993) 5 Cal.4th 478, 509-510, fn. 17, 20 Cal.Rptr.2d 582, 853 P.2d 1037.)

"The line to be drawn between permissible police conduct and conduct deemed to induce or to tend to induce an involuntary statement does not depend upon the bare language of inducement but rather upon the nature of the benefit to be derived by a defendant if he speaks the truth, as represented by the police․ [¶] When the benefit pointed out by the police to a suspect is merely that which flows naturally from a truthful and honest course of conduct, we can perceive nothing improper․ On the other hand, if the defendant is given to understand that he might reasonably expect benefits in the nature of more lenient treatment at the hands of the police, prosecution or court in consideration of making a statement, even a truthful one, such motivation is deemed to render the statement involuntary and inadmissible.”  (People v. Hill (1967) 66 Cal.2d 536, 549, 58 Cal.Rptr. 340, 426 P.2d 908;  People v. Howard (1988) 44 Cal.3d 375, 398, 243 Cal.Rptr. 842, 749 P.2d 279;  People v. Hogan (1982) 31 Cal.3d 815, 835, 183 Cal.Rptr. 817, 647 P.2d 93, disapproved on another ground in People v. Cooper (1991) 53 Cal.3d 771, 836, 281 Cal.Rptr. 90, 809 P.2d 865.)

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of- ... 10322.html

[jarofsoup]

I found this interesting & wanted to share:

A statement is involuntary and, thus, inadmissible, if it is obtained by threats or promises of leniency, whether express or implied, however slight, or by the exertion of any improper influence.  (See People v. Clark (1993) 5 Cal.4th 950, 988, 22 Cal.Rptr.2d 689, 857 P.2d 1099;  People v. Benson (1990) 52 Cal.3d 754, 778, 276 Cal.Rptr. 827, 802 P.2d 330;  People v. Jimenez (1978) 21 Cal.3d 595, 611, 147 Cal.Rptr. 172, 580 P.2d 672, overruled on another ground by People v. Cahill (1993) 5 Cal.4th 478, 509-510, fn. 17, 20 Cal.Rptr.2d 582, 853 P.2d 1037.)

"The line to be drawn between permissible police conduct and conduct deemed to induce or to tend to induce an involuntary statement does not depend upon the bare language of inducement but rather upon the nature of the benefit to be derived by a defendant if he speaks the truth, as represented by the police․ [¶] When the benefit pointed out by the police to a suspect is merely that which flows naturally from a truthful and honest course of conduct, we can perceive nothing improper․ On the other hand, if the defendant is given to understand that he might reasonably expect benefits in the nature of more lenient treatment at the hands of the police, prosecution or court in consideration of making a statement, even a truthful one, such motivation is deemed to render the statement involuntary and inadmissible.”  (People v. Hill (1967) 66 Cal.2d 536, 549, 58 Cal.Rptr. 340, 426 P.2d 908;  People v. Howard (1988) 44 Cal.3d 375, 398, 243 Cal.Rptr. 842, 749 P.2d 279;  People v. Hogan (1982) 31 Cal.3d 815, 835, 183 Cal.Rptr. 817, 647 P.2d 93, disapproved on another ground in People v. Cooper (1991) 53 Cal.3d 771, 836, 281 Cal.Rptr. 90, 809 P.2d 865.)

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of- ... 10322.html

The bar exam follows the law of general applicability for crim law and crim pro. This is CA precedent so it does not apply to our analysis. I think the case that controls maybe Brown v. Miss and the Connolly test. But, I am not sure because I took Crim Pro last fall.

I think you can argue that it is a coerced confession, but it is not clear cut.

[CALawGirl]

So in a nutshell: You are saying the threat the officer made to the suspect (if you don't confess, we will tell the DA you did not cooperate) is not coercive? And that the confession was voluntary?

I just read Colorado v. Connelly (Connelly Test) and feel the facts are very different. Connelly came to cops to confess, waived his right to counsel, he was mentally ill at the time he made the confession. His statements were voluntary with no coercion by police.

I thought the Bar crim pro question we had was a clear cut coercion which resulted in an involuntary confession. But if I'm wrong, I'd like to learn the flip side of the coin.

[uvauvauva]

The bar was weeks ago guys. Results come out a few months from now. How about just chilling for a bit?

I come back here and have panic attacks that I missed something.

So I am staying away from thread for a while.

[jarofsoup]

The bar was weeks ago guys. Results come out a few months from now. How about just chilling for a bit?

I come back here and have panic attacks that I missed something.

So I am staying away from thread for a while.

Agreed. Im done. CAlawgirl you are on your own with the crim question this is making me think I screwed up or failed.

[CALawGirl]

The bar was weeks ago guys. Results come out a few months from now. How about just chilling for a bit?

I come back here and have panic attacks that I missed something.

So I am staying away from thread for a while.

Agreed. Im done. CAlawgirl you are on your own with the crim question this is making me think I screwed up or failed.

Ok...ok. I'm not even thinking of pass or fail. I just love learning different point of views and how people think. I'm off to Church! Enjoy the rest of your day.

[Carryon]

The bar was weeks ago guys. Results come out a few months from now. How about just chilling for a bit?

I come back here and have panic attacks that I missed something.

So I am staying away from thread for a while.

Agreed. Im done. CAlawgirl you are on your own with the crim question this is making me think I screwed up or failed.

Ok...ok. I'm not even thinking of pass or fail. I just love learning different point of views and how people think. I'm off to Church! Enjoy the rest of your day.

I sort of do too. My wife also asks me if I felt that I passed. These discussions give me a better idea of whether I passed. Went to Church yesterday as well.

[Carryon]

The bar was weeks ago guys. Results come out a few months from now. How about just chilling for a bit?

I come back here and have panic attacks that I missed something.

So I am staying away from thread for a while.

Agreed. Im done. CAlawgirl you are on your own with the crim question this is making me think I screwed up or failed.

Ok...ok. I'm not even thinking of pass or fail. I just love learning different point of views and how people think. I'm off to Church! Enjoy the rest of your day.

I sort of do too. My wife also asks me if I felt that I passed. These discussions give me a better idea of whether I passed. Went to Church yesterday as well.

I also hope everybody is doing ok in the Napa Valley area after the earthquake.

[TitoSantana]

Just have faith in Baby Jesus. Here you go...You're welcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuAUI_0knfk

[InTheWideLand I Walk]

Hello fellow bar exam takers.

...

The bar exam was the most challenging thing I have ever done...

.

This may shock people but I think high school was the most challenging thing I've ever done. around 7 different classes a day in random subjects with random assignments that had nothing to do with each other, 5 days a week, and like 2-3 hours of COMPLICATED math homework per night PLUS homework for the other 6 subjects. O yeah, and there wasnt just 1 final per class but RANDOM tests like every week. Also, you had to do a sport or club or something because just a good GPA wasnt good enough. So basically you either got no sleep every night, or performed poorly.

not to mention our hormones kicked into full force around this time just to throw a wrench into the gears, and it was practically impossible to relax by drinking/smoking/getting laid because of the strict disciplinary rules set by parents (for me at least).

the bar exam was a lot of work but it was very niche- like. just sit down and do the same MBE-essay shit every day for 2 months and review your answers. It was not random chaos like the 4 years of high school. and basically everyone in law school/bar review quits competitive sports because there is no need which makes things simpler

sorry if some of you think this is an offhand rant. and if you were curious I still do competitive sports at the elite level and was training for a competition during bar review

[MBAtoJD]

Hello fellow bar exam takers.

...

The bar exam was the most challenging thing I have ever done...

.

This may shock people but I think high school was the most challenging thing I've ever done. around 7 different classes a day in random subjects with random assignments that had nothing to do with each other, 5 days a week, and like 2-3 hours of COMPLICATED math homework per night PLUS homework for the other 6 subjects. O yeah, and there wasnt just 1 final per class but RANDOM tests like every week. Also, you had to do a sport or club or something because just a good GPA wasnt good enough. So basically you either got no sleep every night, or performed poorly.

not to mention our hormones kicked into full force around this time just to throw a wrench into the gears, and it was practically impossible to relax by drinking/smoking/getting laid because of the strict disciplinary rules set by parents (for me at least).

the bar exam was a lot of work but it was very niche- like. just sit down and do the same MBE-essay shit every day for 2 months and review your answers. It was not random chaos like the 4 years of high school. and basically everyone in law school/bar review quits competitive sports because there is no need which makes things simpler

sorry if some of you think this is an offhand rant. and if you were curious I still do competitive sports at the elite level and was training for a competition during bar review

You want to hear the most challenging experience? Let's see...

Going to high school (boarding school) in a 3rd world country, where there is no clean water and you have to walk miles to a stream for water, where you squat to poop because no bathrooms, where manual labor includes cutting grass that is taller than you with a cutlass for hours under the HOT sun with the risk of snake bites, where there is the risk of some terrorist group coming to kidnap students, burn the school, rape girls...oh, and perverted teachers who want to take advantage of students who are miles away from home...where laws don't take into account child abuse and "discipline" over there will be considered inhumane in the US!

I got typhoid fever and almost died!

You guys have no idea what challenge is. You are all fortunate!

[LawDog86]

Hello fellow bar exam takers.

...

The bar exam was the most challenging thing I have ever done...

.

This may shock people but I think high school was the most challenging thing I've ever done. around 7 different classes a day in random subjects with random assignments that had nothing to do with each other, 5 days a week, and like 2-3 hours of COMPLICATED math homework per night PLUS homework for the other 6 subjects. O yeah, and there wasnt just 1 final per class but RANDOM tests like every week. Also, you had to do a sport or club or something because just a good GPA wasnt good enough. So basically you either got no sleep every night, or performed poorly.

not to mention our hormones kicked into full force around this time just to throw a wrench into the gears, and it was practically impossible to relax by drinking/smoking/getting laid because of the strict disciplinary rules set by parents (for me at least).

the bar exam was a lot of work but it was very niche- like. just sit down and do the same MBE-essay shit every day for 2 months and review your answers. It was not random chaos like the 4 years of high school. and basically everyone in law school/bar review quits competitive sports because there is no need which makes things simpler

sorry if some of you think this is an offhand rant. and if you were curious I still do competitive sports at the elite level and was training for a competition during bar review

You want to hear the most challenging experience? Let's see...

Going to high school (boarding school) in a 3rd world country, where there is no clean water and you have to walk miles to a stream for water, where you squat to poop because no bathrooms, where manual labor includes cutting grass that is taller than you with a cutlass for hours under the HOT sun with the risk of snake bites, where there is the risk of some terrorist group coming to kidnap students, burn the school, rape girls...oh, and perverted teachers who want to take advantage of students who are miles away from home...where laws don't take into account child abuse and "discipline" over there will be considered inhumane in the US!

I got typhoid fever and almost died!

You guys have no idea what challenge is. You are all fortunate!

Boy, that escalated quickly...

[dtl]

You guys complaining about the bar exam were obviously not on Apollo 13.

[adonai]

Think our exams are being graded right now?

[MBAtoJD]

Hello fellow bar exam takers.

...

The bar exam was the most challenging thing I have ever done...

.

This may shock people but I think high school was the most challenging thing I've ever done. around 7 different classes a day in random subjects with random assignments that had nothing to do with each other, 5 days a week, and like 2-3 hours of COMPLICATED math homework per night PLUS homework for the other 6 subjects. O yeah, and there wasnt just 1 final per class but RANDOM tests like every week. Also, you had to do a sport or club or something because just a good GPA wasnt good enough. So basically you either got no sleep every night, or performed poorly.

not to mention our hormones kicked into full force around this time just to throw a wrench into the gears, and it was practically impossible to relax by drinking/smoking/getting laid because of the strict disciplinary rules set by parents (for me at least).

the bar exam was a lot of work but it was very niche- like. just sit down and do the same MBE-essay shit every day for 2 months and review your answers. It was not random chaos like the 4 years of high school. and basically everyone in law school/bar review quits competitive sports because there is no need which makes things simpler

sorry if some of you think this is an offhand rant. and if you were curious I still do competitive sports at the elite level and was training for a competition during bar review

You want to hear the most challenging experience? Let's see...

Going to high school (boarding school) in a 3rd world country, where there is no clean water and you have to walk miles to a stream for water, where you squat to poop because no bathrooms, where manual labor includes cutting grass that is taller than you with a cutlass for hours under the HOT sun with the risk of snake bites, where there is the risk of some terrorist group coming to kidnap students, burn the school, rape girls...oh, and perverted teachers who want to take advantage of students who are miles away from home...where laws don't take into account child abuse and "discipline" over there will be considered inhumane in the US!

I got typhoid fever and almost died!

You guys have no idea what challenge is. You are all fortunate!

Boy, that escalated quickly...

LMAO! Did the "squat to poop" take it too far? I definitely put a one week halt to the thread. My bad!

You may now proceed to your regularly scheduled Bar convos.

[catechumen]

So perhaps I should change the subject. Does anyone want to predict a pass rate? My guess, 55% That trusts/CP essay is going to hurt a lot of people.

[Carryon]

So perhaps I should change the subject. Does anyone want to predict a pass rate? My guess, 55% That trusts/CP essay is going to hurt a lot of people.

I will guess about the same, 56 percent, since this is the average over the years.

[jarofsoup]

If I failed it was the PR essay that did me in.

[CALawGirl]

If I failed it was the PR essay that did me in.

If thats all you are worried about, you'll be fine. One essay can't make you fail. Besides, I feel like when an essay or PT is tricky, grading is generous.

I still can't believe the passing scores for July 2013. I think it was 59 for written; 129 for MBE. And I failed Feb. with a raw essay score of 59 and 148 scaled MBE (appx 135 raw). I was 7 points to passing! I ran out of time on 2 essays (wasted time discussing non-issues) and on PTA.

This time around, I feel I did better but you just never know. I've known people who thought they passed and are surprised to see their name not on the list. So annoying!

[Carryon]

If I failed it was the PR essay that did me in.

If thats all you are worried about, you'll be fine. One essay can't make you fail. Besides, I feel like when an essay or PT is tricky, grading is generous.

I still can't believe the passing scores for July 2013. I think it was 59 for written; 129 for MBE. And I failed Feb. with a raw essay score of 59 and 148 scaled MBE (appx 135 raw). I was 7 points to passing! I ran out of time on 2 essays (wasted time discussing non-issues) and on PTA.

This time around, I feel I did better but you just never know. I've known people who thought they passed and are surprised to see their name not on the list. So annoying!

I agree with the fact that the harder the essay the more generous the grading, based on what I saw with the graded essays at baressays.com. Just for kicks, here is a link that looks like an RPT for glamping.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/i-spent-3 ... 56547.html

Any comments by anyone?

[CALawGirl]

If I failed it was the PR essay that did me in.

If thats all you are worried about, you'll be fine. One essay can't make you fail. Besides, I feel like when an essay or PT is tricky, grading is generous.

I still can't believe the passing scores for July 2013. I think it was 59 for written; 129 for MBE. And I failed Feb. with a raw essay score of 59 and 148 scaled MBE (appx 135 raw). I was 7 points to passing! I ran out of time on 2 essays (wasted time discussing non-issues) and on PTA.

This time around, I feel I did better but you just never know. I've known people who thought they passed and are surprised to see their name not on the list. So annoying!

I agree with the fact that the harder the essay the more generous the grading, based on what I saw with the graded essays at baressays.com. Just for kicks, here is a link that looks like an RPT for glamping.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/i-spent-3 ... 56547.html

Any comments by anyone?

LOL! I'm going to be "objective" here and say it can be a structure since it kinda looks like a cabin but on the other hand, it can be an RV since it has wheels which means it cam be mobile.

[jarofsoup]

If I failed it was the PR essay that did me in.

If thats all you are worried about, you'll be fine. One essay can't make you fail. Besides, I feel like when an essay or PT is tricky, grading is generous.

I still can't believe the passing scores for July 2013. I think it was 59 for written; 129 for MBE. And I failed Feb. with a raw essay score of 59 and 148 scaled MBE (appx 135 raw). I was 7 points to passing! I ran out of time on 2 essays (wasted time discussing non-issues) and on PTA.

This time around, I feel I did better but you just never know. I've known people who thought they passed and are surprised to see their name not on the list. So annoying!

I agree with the fact that the harder the essay the more generous the grading, based on what I saw with the graded essays at baressays.com. Just for kicks, here is a link that looks like an RPT for glamping.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/i-spent-3 ... 56547.html

Any comments by anyone?

Its harder to pass in Feb b/c the curve is smaller right?