Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017 Forum

[ernie]

I'm thinking I may do a few MPTs, but I'm not going to do all of the ones assigned. Anyone else? I started one but it felt like a complete waste of time. Looked at the model answer and the issues and answers were super obvious.

[phineasgage33]

Does anyone know why there are no MBE Practice Questions for Secured Transactions? Or maybe they're on the website and I just can't find them?

[ernie]

Is secured transactions on MBE? I thought just MEE?

[phineasgage33]

Is secured transactions on MBE? I thought just MEE?

Oops, sorry -- yeah, only the MEE. Time to rest my head.

[pvnyc]

Is there a difference between the lecture outlines and the detailed outlines? My goal was to finish the lectures as soon as possible so that I can start practicing---- does anyone think this is a bad idea? I am done listening to the MEE topics and the MPT and am highlighting the detailed outline section by section (and I am going to put away the lecture book). I want to do the same thing for the MBE......

I have been going through quite a lot this summer, personal problems before graduation (and somehow I made it to graduation), so my motivation is really down (plus I graduated from the bottom of my class).. and no job offer.

I was hoping to spend the majority of my time practicing, but would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you.

[phineasgage33]

Is there a difference between the lecture outlines and the detailed outlines? My goal was to finish the lectures as soon as possible so that I can start practicing---- does anyone think this is a bad idea? I am done listening to the MEE topics and the MPT and am highlighting the detailed outline section by section (and I am going to put away the lecture book). I want to do the same thing for the MBE......

I have been going through quite a lot this summer, personal problems before graduation (and somehow I made it to graduation), so my motivation is really down (plus I graduated from the bottom of my class).. and no job offer.

I was hoping to spend the majority of my time practicing, but would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about those difficulties this summer. As far as your question goes, I've found the outlines to be very comprehensive resources for "fleshing" out the lecture notes. Sometimes -- like in the case of Secured Transactions -- they'll have some additional examples that the lecture notes won't have. It's worth skimming at the very least, especially if you're going to try to create a mini-outline on your own. Just my two cents.

[pvnyc]

Is there a difference between the lecture outlines and the detailed outlines? My goal was to finish the lectures as soon as possible so that I can start practicing---- does anyone think this is a bad idea? I am done listening to the MEE topics and the MPT and am highlighting the detailed outline section by section (and I am going to put away the lecture book). I want to do the same thing for the MBE......

I have been going through quite a lot this summer, personal problems before graduation (and somehow I made it to graduation), so my motivation is really down (plus I graduated from the bottom of my class).. and no job offer.

I was hoping to spend the majority of my time practicing, but would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about those difficulties this summer. As far as your question goes, I've found the outlines to be very comprehensive resources for "fleshing" out the lecture notes. Sometimes -- like in the case of Secured Transactions -- they'll have some additional examples that the lecture notes won't have. It's worth skimming at the very least, especially if you're going to try to create a mini-outline on your own. Just my two cents.

Thanks for your response... I was thinking of putting away the MEE lecture book now (since I finished it) and focus on the detailed outline book. My purpose of highlighting is to pull out the important details and make an outline later on. I do want to know whether not looking at the MEE lecture book ever again would be a bad idea. (Same for MBE when I am done with those subjects).
Thanks again for your response.

[Slytherpuff]

Property is still kicking my butt - I've only gotten above 60% on one question set out of four.

[michelle3908]

Is there a difference between the lecture outlines and the detailed outlines? My goal was to finish the lectures as soon as possible so that I can start practicing---- does anyone think this is a bad idea? I am done listening to the MEE topics and the MPT and am highlighting the detailed outline section by section (and I am going to put away the lecture book). I want to do the same thing for the MBE......

I have been going through quite a lot this summer, personal problems before graduation (and somehow I made it to graduation), so my motivation is really down (plus I graduated from the bottom of my class).. and no job offer.

I was hoping to spend the majority of my time practicing, but would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about those difficulties this summer. As far as your question goes, I've found the outlines to be very comprehensive resources for "fleshing" out the lecture notes. Sometimes -- like in the case of Secured Transactions -- they'll have some additional examples that the lecture notes won't have. It's worth skimming at the very least, especially if you're going to try to create a mini-outline on your own. Just my two cents.

Hi, also sorry to hear. I've been watching the lectures,, doing a couple sets of the mbe pq's, then going through the outlines. I'm getting more value from the outlines and I find it an easier read after I've seen it demonstrated in some practice questions. I notice some of the pqs ask some items not covered in the lectures but you will find in the outlines. As for the burnout and outside stress, i am working full-time so i get it, and it is hard to be able to study with major distractions. But I read a quote to kinda change my attitude: "If it's important enough to you, you
will find a way. If not, you will find an excuse." So I would encourage you to focus on your well being and the bar, and ignore those outside distractions in your personal life as much as possible for the next 45 days and good luck!

[michelle3908]

in

some of these lectures are excruciatingly boring

I couldn't agree more... Thankfully we can speed them up and get done sooner.

[pvnyc]

Is there a difference between the lecture outlines and the detailed outlines? My goal was to finish the lectures as soon as possible so that I can start practicing---- does anyone think this is a bad idea? I am done listening to the MEE topics and the MPT and am highlighting the detailed outline section by section (and I am going to put away the lecture book). I want to do the same thing for the MBE......

I have been going through quite a lot this summer, personal problems before graduation (and somehow I made it to graduation), so my motivation is really down (plus I graduated from the bottom of my class).. and no job offer.

I was hoping to spend the majority of my time practicing, but would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about those difficulties this summer. As far as your question goes, I've found the outlines to be very comprehensive resources for "fleshing" out the lecture notes. Sometimes -- like in the case of Secured Transactions -- they'll have some additional examples that the lecture notes won't have. It's worth skimming at the very least, especially if you're going to try to create a mini-outline on your own. Just my two cents.

Hi, also sorry to hear. I've been watching the lectures,, doing a couple sets of the mbe pq's, then going through the outlines. I'm getting more value from the outlines and I find it an easier read after I've seen it demonstrated in some practice questions. I notice some of the pqs ask some items not covered in the lectures but you will find in the outlines. As for the burnout and outside stress, i am working full-time so i get it, and it is hard to be able to study with major distractions. But I read a quote to kinda change my attitude: "If it's important enough to you, you
will find a way. If not, you will find an excuse." So I would encourage you to focus on your well being and the bar, and ignore those outside distractions in your personal life as much as possible for the next 45 days and good luck!

Hi, thanks for your response! Love the quote... I have been on this website even before getting into lawschool and read about how other people had personal struggles too during bar prep. I never thought it would happen to me (related to my parents and brother and I live at home with them). Emotions are so high.. I saw a psychologist twice on campus (can't anymore since I graduate)..... and the feelings of aggression just come up so many times when I study (I study on campus)... I stare at the wall and my anger goes there. (My whole family needs counseling)... focusing is hard, but I will try. (I am not crazy )
Practice wise, I have been behind. Hope to catch up soon.
Thanks again.

[cron1834]

Property is still kicking my butt - I've only gotten above 60% on one question set out of four.

If it's not about adverse possession, I'm basically running at a coin flip for most questions.

[LSSS]

Property is still kicking my butt - I've only gotten above 60% on one question set out of four.

same here.

[LSSS]

Is there a difference between the lecture outlines and the detailed outlines? My goal was to finish the lectures as soon as possible so that I can start practicing---- does anyone think this is a bad idea? I am done listening to the MEE topics and the MPT and am highlighting the detailed outline section by section (and I am going to put away the lecture book). I want to do the same thing for the MBE......

I have been going through quite a lot this summer, personal problems before graduation (and somehow I made it to graduation), so my motivation is really down (plus I graduated from the bottom of my class).. and no job offer.

I was hoping to spend the majority of my time practicing, but would love to hear your opinions.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about those difficulties this summer. As far as your question goes, I've found the outlines to be very comprehensive resources for "fleshing" out the lecture notes. Sometimes -- like in the case of Secured Transactions -- they'll have some additional examples that the lecture notes won't have. It's worth skimming at the very least, especially if you're going to try to create a mini-outline on your own. Just my two cents.

Hi, also sorry to hear. I've been watching the lectures,, doing a couple sets of the mbe pq's, then going through the outlines. I'm getting more value from the outlines and I find it an easier read after I've seen it demonstrated in some practice questions. I notice some of the pqs ask some items not covered in the lectures but you will find in the outlines. As for the burnout and outside stress, i am working full-time so i get it, and it is hard to be able to study with major distractions. But I read a quote to kinda change my attitude: "If it's important enough to you, you
will find a way. If not, you will find an excuse." So I would encourage you to focus on your well being and the bar, and ignore those outside distractions in your personal life as much as possible for the next 45 days and good luck!

Hi, thanks for your response! Love the quote... I have been on this website even before getting into lawschool and read about how other people had personal struggles too during bar prep. I never thought it would happen to me (related to my parents and brother and I live at home with them). Emotions are so high.. I saw a psychologist twice on campus (can't anymore since I graduate)..... and the feelings of aggression just come up so many times when I study (I study on campus)... I stare at the wall and my anger goes there. (My whole family needs counseling)... focusing is hard, but I will try. (I am not crazy )
Practice wise, I have been behind. Hope to catch up soon.
Thanks again.

I am sorry to hear that you are going through personal struggles while studying for the bar. Try your best to stay focused. You can do it!

[mightymouse23]

Does anyone else find that completing everything on their daily task list takes an unreasonable amount of time? I read all the assigned outlines fully and when it asks to review lecture handouts I'll read the entire thing through, so that adds a lot of time. It generally takes me anywhere between 10-14 hours to get through everything assigned for the day. I get that I could skip reading the outlines or just review parts of the handouts, or skip/merely outline practice essays, but I prefer doing everything that's assigned in its entirety. It sucks that it ends up taking up so much time though. FYI, I'm taking the NY bar.

[SeewhathappensLarry]

Does anyone else find that completing everything on their daily task list takes an unreasonable amount of time? I read all the assigned outlines fully and when it asks to review lecture handouts I'll read the entire thing through, so that adds a lot of time. It generally takes me anywhere between 10-14 hours to get through everything assigned for the day. I get that I could skip reading the outlines or just review parts of the handouts, or skip/merely outline practice essays, but I prefer doing everything that's assigned in its entirety. It sucks that it ends up taking up so much time though. FYI, I'm taking the NY bar.

That's way too much time to spend, IMO. I could see how that could happen if you read the whole outline before the lectures. Do the lectures and handouts first, and read the outline afterwards. That way you can skim the things you know.

[mightymouse23]

Does anyone else find that completing everything on their daily task list takes an unreasonable amount of time? I read all the assigned outlines fully and when it asks to review lecture handouts I'll read the entire thing through, so that adds a lot of time. It generally takes me anywhere between 10-14 hours to get through everything assigned for the day. I get that I could skip reading the outlines or just review parts of the handouts, or skip/merely outline practice essays, but I prefer doing everything that's assigned in its entirety. It sucks that it ends up taking up so much time though. FYI, I'm taking the NY bar.

That's way too much time to spend, IMO. I could see how that could happen if you read the whole outline before the lectures. Do the lectures and handouts first, and read the outline afterwards. That way you can skim the things you know.

Good advice. Thanks.

[jennifer_42]

Here are a couple of things that annoy me.

The MBE Torts Outline states that deadly force is never allowed to protect property. Well, the Texas Penal Code 9.42 would beg to differ. I realize that the outline cannot cover every state's laws, but an absolute term like never should not be used.

The explanation for the practice quiz question on false imprisonment (where the lady and the kids are shopping and loss prevention pulls them aside and accuses them of stealing) is incomplete. Because loss prevention can absolutely use the shopkeeper's privilege, but the explanation skips over the key fact, which is invalid use of legal authority because of the lies loss prevention told them. Sigh.

[yeslekkkk]

Here are a couple of things that annoy me.

The MBE Torts Outline states that deadly force is never allowed to protect property. Well, the Texas Penal Code 9.42 would beg to differ. I realize that the outline cannot cover every state's laws, but an absolute term like never should not be used.

The explanation for the practice quiz question on false imprisonment (where the lady and the kids are shopping and loss prevention pulls them aside and accuses them of stealing) is incomplete. Because loss prevention can absolutely use the shopkeeper's privilege, but the explanation skips over the key fact, which is invalid use of legal authority because of the lies loss prevention told them. Sigh.

I don't know how your state exam works, but the torts outline is geared towards the MBE which does not consider Texas law. You're also referring to a penal code that I'm completely unfamiliar with, but I'm guessing that criminal. I'm guessing you're mixing up the worlds. Of course, I'm not an expert. But it sounds like you should just view the exam to be a closed universe. Reconciling it will probably just be exhausting.

I remember thinking about the lady and the kids thing! I think it said it was unreasonable under the circumstances to pull them aside, which I thought didn't make sense.

[Jon_Snow]

Just wanted to update how I've been moving along.
Gave up on following the schedule because it doesn't work for me. I don't do the same thing ever day but generally what I set out to do every day.

1. MBE lectures, 1 subject a day in its entirety. (Including the MBE workshop or MEE workshop. If I don't feel like doing those I do them first thing the next day). I watch at 1.3-1.5x depending on the lecturer, fill out the lecture handouts, and use the lecture notes to answer the assessment questions after every chapter.. I take my time with these. --> WIll get back to MEE-only subject lectures next week.

2. I work my way through the assessment Qs, and MBE PQs for subject for the MBE lectures that I've finished.

For the first MBE PQs, I do it the first MBE section completely open book with the full BLL outline, and doublecheck the outline before I answer each question. I still get a good percentage wrong because I rush or didn't read the question or understand the issue. I review each answer whether I got it right or wrong.

For the second and third MBE PQs, I only use the MBE BLL outline if I'm not sure about the answer. I still review the the answer every time, by looking it up in the BLL outline.

Fourth and Fifth MBE PQs, I do it closed book and try to do it within the ~1:48 second time limit Themis suggests but will look up the answer if I have no idea what the answer is. I always look up the answer explanation with the BLL outline after I get questions wrong if it was a substantive error I made. Scoring mid-high 6x% for each subject according the Themis by the time I get to the 4th or 5th set final set.

3. Work on Adaptibar Qs (I don't like Themis MBE quiz builder). 50 questions per subject that I finished MBE Qs completely. (If I have time, I do these closed book and aim to answer each question as quickly as possible. My average time is a few seconds over the magical 1:48s but I'm scoring mid 60%, or 70% just for the Stage 1 initial evaluation Adaptibar suggests.

4. MEE, I do about 1 every three days, timed. I issue spot then use the BLL outline for the first two practice essays Themis gives you. I then look up the sample answer, compare with my own answer and re-type it out/ or copy and paste into a word document where I keep all the sample answers for each subject. For subsequent practice essays I do them closed book with time, but review the sample answers in my word document beforehand for about 15-20 minutes to remind myself about the kind of IRAC and essay writing I'm shooting for.

Most important thing is to try to do what worked in law school. At the end of the day the UBE is a standardized exam and I like hitting up the subjects one by one in a systematic way instead of always having overlapping subjects as I'm having to learn new material. With my method, I'm gonna clear up more time at the end of June and July for mixed-subject MBE practice and exam simulation with regards to essays and MPT.

[jennifer_42]

Just wanted to update how I've been moving along.
Gave up on following the schedule because it doesn't work for me. I don't do the same thing ever day but generally what I set out to do every day.

1. MBE lectures, 1 subject a day in its entirety. (Including the MBE workshop or MEE workshop. If I don't feel like doing those I do them first thing the next day). I watch at 1.3-1.5x depending on the lecturer, fill out the lecture handouts, and use the lecture notes to answer the assessment questions after every chapter.. I take my time with these. --> WIll get back to MEE-only subject lectures next week.

2. I work my way through the assessment Qs, and MBE PQs for subject for the MBE lectures that I've finished.
...

Obviously you're doing what works for you. But I think the purpose of zig-zagging back and forth between subjects is to make sure you don't forget anything.

[J-english]

Did anyone do the Graded Torts Essay yet? Did you feel like there was no way to get all that information down within 30 minutes? I only got through the first 2 issues and then one sentence on the 3rd.... didn't even touch the 4th one.

[SplitMyPants]

Pro-tip while traveling: I notice that the themis videos (at least in chrome) pre-buffer the entire video (unlike with youtube which only buffers a bit at a time and stops buffering when you pause the video). SO, if you are traveling and have limited access to internet (like where you have a phone hotspot but dont want to burn through data or you are on a plane with wifi but its not good enough to stream quickly), you can open the lectures in their own tabs and let them pre-load on your home wifi or at a starbucks on the road or something. THEN, with your limited internet connection you can watch the lecture through and whatever speed you want. HTH!

The reason you need limited internet is because it seems like it periodically checks your authenticity. I tried watching one without any internet and got an error like 2 mins in. FWIW I checked my Verizon account and confirmed that having the internet on via hotspot did not blow through data; the videos remained buffered as planned.

[MelaPela]

Did anyone do the Graded Torts Essay yet? Did you feel like there was no way to get all that information down within 30 minutes? I only got through the first 2 issues and then one sentence on the 3rd.... didn't even touch the 4th one.

I did it this morning and had a similar issue. I did get to the 4th but wrote literally 2 sentences before time ran out. In retrospect,

[+] Spoiler

probably shouldn't have done a full negligence analysis for the first two

.

[saywhat88]

is the themis website down for anyone or is it just me?