Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

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Tanicius

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:49 pm

d3sp wrote:Does anybody else get frustrated when you complete all the reading and lectures for an essay topic, review your notes, and find that the three were wholly inadequate to prepare for the practice essay questions? I know they try to narrow the field of knowledge we have to learn into smaller categories, but it's awfully disconcerting when my essay practice questions are not even fully covered in the material!
I feel like the material is typically covered, but the model answers have a habit of making an issue seem super simple, as if it turns on this one really minute exception to an exception, or one very obvious and broad rule.

I am caring less and less about getting the answer "right." My aim for the short-term at least is just to correctly spot and phrase the issues, with memorizing the complete rule a secondary goal. I know for a fact that there will be several subjects I just will not be able to memorize the rules for by exam time. Pretty sure we're going to be okay though.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tarponbeach » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:51 am

numbertwo88 wrote:I wish the handouts were not fill in the blank. Because this is annoying as hell.

Has anyone just correlated the long outlines to the handouts? I am so over spending time watching 5 million segments on essay topics that may or may not show up on the bar exam.
You can ask your adviser to email you the completed "fill in the blanks" handouts. I complained that it is distracting trying to fill them out while watching the lectures, and she sent me the handouts already filled in. Makes watching and retaining the lecture much better.


Not to mention that some of the professors really don't follow the handouts very well.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Genuine4ps » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:52 am

Tarponbeach wrote:
numbertwo88 wrote:I wish the handouts were not fill in the blank. Because this is annoying as hell.

Has anyone just correlated the long outlines to the handouts? I am so over spending time watching 5 million segments on essay topics that may or may not show up on the bar exam.
You can ask your adviser to email you the completed "fill in the blanks" handouts. I complained that it is distracting trying to fill them out while watching the lectures, and she sent me the handouts already filled in. Makes watching and retaining the lecture much better.


Not to mention that some of the professors really don't follow the handouts very well.
Wow, wish I knew this a month ago.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Lasers » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:19 am

Genuine4ps wrote:
Tarponbeach wrote:
numbertwo88 wrote:I wish the handouts were not fill in the blank. Because this is annoying as hell.

Has anyone just correlated the long outlines to the handouts? I am so over spending time watching 5 million segments on essay topics that may or may not show up on the bar exam.
You can ask your adviser to email you the completed "fill in the blanks" handouts. I complained that it is distracting trying to fill them out while watching the lectures, and she sent me the handouts already filled in. Makes watching and retaining the lecture much better.


Not to mention that some of the professors really don't follow the handouts very well.
Wow, wish I knew this a month ago.
lol, same.

i realized though the lecture notes aren't as good, imo, as the summary outlines + specifically referring to the long outline for certain areas.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Lasers » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:22 am

finally about to tackle the last essay subject.

ugh. then to catch up on those essays/MBE's...

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:29 am

Rage mode activated. Sorry for this long whining post. Feel free to not read it -- I just need to bitch and moan.

Getting absolutely slaughtered by Torts MBE #5. The answer options for questions that ask "On which of the following issues does the result hinge," are almost all correct by logical definition. A bunch of the questions also ask you to make inferences about what the reasoning of an answer is, without indication from the answers themselves that that is the explanation at issue.
15. (Question ID#929)
A chemical company manufactured a liquid chemical product known as XRX. Some XRX leaked from a storage tank on the chemical company's property, seeped into the groundwater, flowed to a farmer's adjacent property, and polluted the farmer's well. Several of the farmer's cows drank the polluted well water and died.
If the farmer brings an action against the chemical company to recover the value of the cows that died, the farmer will
A. Prevail, because a manufacturer is strictly liable for harm caused by its products.
B. Prevail, because the XRX escaped from the chemical company's premises.
C. Not prevail, unless the farmer can establish that the storage tank was defective.
D. Not prevail, unless the chemical company failed to exercise reasonable care in storing the XRX. (My answer choice.)
Incorrect: Answer choice B is correct. Under the traditional standard for res ipsa loquitur, the plaintiff must prove that (i) the accident was of a kind that ordinarily does not occur in the absence of negligence; (ii) it was caused by an agent or instrumentality within the exclusive control of the defendant; and (iii) it was not due to any action on the part of the plaintiff. Here, absent negligence, the seeping of XRX into the groundwater would not ordinarily occur in the absence of negligence, and the facility and chemical were under the exclusive control of the defendant. Finally, the accident was not due to any action on the part of the farmer. Therefore, the farmer can prevail. Answer choice A is incorrect as there is no evidence that the product, XRX, was unreasonably dangerous. Additionally, the statement is overreaching because a manufacturer is not always strictly liable for harm. Answer choice C is incorrect. It is not necessary that the farmer establish that the storage tank was defective. It is sufficient that he establish that the act of XRX seeping into the well water would not have occurred absent negligence and that storage tank was in the exclusive control of the defendant. Answer choice D is incorrect. Under res ipsa loquitur, a plaintiff does not need to establish that the defendant failed to exercise reasonable care in the storing of its product. It is sufficient that the plaintiff establish that the event is the type that ordinarily would not have occurred absent negligence.
Notice how the correct answer is so because of res ipsa loquitur, which is not actually provided as part of the reasoning in the answer choice itself.

The answer explanation also includes elements for res ipsa that are not present in the correct answer choice either. It then explains that answer choice D is incorrect because the plaintiff doesn't have to prove negligence in a res ipsa claim. But choice D isn't about whether the plaintiff can or has to prove anything; it's simply about the objective fact of whether the defendant was negligent. If the defendant wasn't negligent, then the plaintiff probably isn't winning a res ipsa case even if the chemical did escape because the defendant could just prove that its facility was functioning properly. There's nothing offered in the question to suggest the defendant would have any trouble doing that.

Finally, why is it in fact true that "absent negligence, the seeping of XRX into the groundwater would not ordinarily occur in the absence of negligence"? Why could it not just as easily occur because of a defective gas tank manufactured by a gas tank maker? A chemical plant exercising ordinary and prudent care could easily not notice a defective leaking gas tank.
Last edited by Tanicius on Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by j1987 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:03 pm

Finally did milestone #2, I didn't even break 50%. Yikes.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Xifeng » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:13 pm

Why does the simulated MBE exam in NY say it's central time? Is that just them messing up? Ugh I hate everything.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Bigbub75 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:27 pm

j1987 wrote:Finally did milestone #2, I didn't even break 50%. Yikes.
Ditto! But in hindsight I did it prematurely.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Genuine4ps » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:05 pm

Ok, now that we're all in the home stretch, how are you all reviewing the subjects? Are you using the handouts, the summary outline, or making your own outline?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by numbertwo88 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:17 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:Ok, now that we're all in the home stretch, how are you all reviewing the subjects? Are you using the handouts, the summary outline, or making your own outline?
I'm using the summary outlines which I've literally written notes all over. And then for MBE state distinctions I've written small outlines for each subject.

For the essay subjects, I'm just reading and using the handouts in correlation to the topics most frequently tested in each essay subject for the essay portion of the bar exam.

I didn't outline much in law school so I find jotting notes and reading things over and over work best for me.

There is way too much information for me to study any other way. I admire people able to flash card it all or do outlines for each subject.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by simonesa » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:50 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:Ok, now that we're all in the home stretch, how are you all reviewing the subjects? Are you using the handouts, the summary outline, or making your own outline?
I am finishing up black letter law flashcards for the 6 MBE subjects and I review them on the train heading to/from the library. I review the handouts from time to time after PQs. I have managed to work the NY distinctions into my flashcard so far, but I still have to make some for evidence, so I am not sure how that is going to work out...

I am also making condensed outlines for the NY subjects and hanging them up in my apartment so I can skim them when I am getting dressed or doing whatever. I made a hearsay flow chart too. Probably will make other charts as time goes on.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by champ33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:43 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:Ok, now that we're all in the home stretch, how are you all reviewing the subjects? Are you using the handouts, the summary outline, or making your own outline?
I plan to read through a few parts of the big outlines for Property and Contracts, those being my worst subjects, but otherwise I plan to just review the summary outlines (for MBE and essay topics) over and over and do as many MBEs as I can get to. For the practice essays, I usually just issue spot and outline, or have the NY distinction outline up as a PDF and ctrl + F as I issue spot to create a quick answer, and I find this helps me memorize. I spend maybe 10 minutes doing each practice essay and then read the sample answer.

Hope this strategy will result in passing.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by jigglypuffdreams » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:42 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:Ok, now that we're all in the home stretch, how are you all reviewing the subjects? Are you using the handouts, the summary outline, or making your own outline?
Big outlines for state subjects, even making some flashcards of key points or state-specific distinctions. And then summary outlines for MBE subjects, I bought Barmax's MBE question bank and so hopefully just drilling MBE questions should be fine.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Kiwi917 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:16 pm

Wills question for the CA folks -

The Themis materials all give the following rule for one of the exceptions when an omitted child does not get the omitted child's share: "The testator had other children at the time the will was executed and left substantially all of his estate to the other parent of the omitted child."

On a practice essay where the later-born omitted child was an only child, and the mother received substantially all of the estate, the model answer said that the omitted child would still be entitled to an omitted child's share under the statute, because the decedent did not have "other children" at the time the will was executed (only the one child born a year later). Seems consistent with the rule above.

The model answers on the CA bar site both say the child does NOT get a share as an omitted child, because the other parent of the omitted child got substantially all of the estate. I know sometimes the published answers get things wrong, but this seems like a key piece since it affects the entire distribution, so I don't get why they would pick two answers that came to the wrong result.

The probate code phrases the exception as "The decedent had one or more children and devised or otherwise directed the disposition of substantially all the estate to the other parent of the omitted child."

The ambiguity here seems to be whether the "one or more children" have to be alive at the time the will was executed, or whether the later-born omitted child counts for purposes of this exception. I think the code means that at least one child has to be alive at the time the will was made, because otherwise you can't draw as strong an inference that leaving the entire estate to the other parent was intended as a way to provide for the children as well.

Can anyone shed light on this for me?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by j1987 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:38 pm

Secured transactions is awful.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:40 pm

Hey guys, just asked my adviser a direct question about what we should be aiming for on the MBE, percentage wise, at this point in the course. The reply, which I think is fairly good news:
Hi Tanicius,
Hope you're doing well!
Most students at this point are in the high 50's of 60's in terms of the percentage of MBE questions they are getting correct. Keep in mind that we all have certain subjects we are stronger in than others so you want to focus on your overall score and not scores in any one subject. Also, you are finally getting to the point in the course where you will start to have time to go back and review the subjects you have covered and as you finally have time to review, practice and memorize the nuances that are frequently tested, your scores will start to creep up. Walking into the exam, you want to try and score in the mid 60's; also, for many students the, the MBE's are a weakness and therefore, if you do a little better than required on the written portion, it can compensate for a lower score on the MBE portion.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by northwood » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:57 pm

Tanicius wrote:Hey guys, just asked my adviser a direct question about what we should be aiming for on the MBE, percentage wise, at this point in the course. The reply, which I think is fairly good news:
Hi Tanicius,
Hope you're doing well!
Most students at this point are in the high 50's of 60's in terms of the percentage of MBE questions they are getting correct. Keep in mind that we all have certain subjects we are stronger in than others so you want to focus on your overall score and not scores in any one subject. Also, you are finally getting to the point in the course where you will start to have time to go back and review the subjects you have covered and as you finally have time to review, practice and memorize the nuances that are frequently tested, your scores will start to creep up. Walking into the exam, you want to try and score in the mid 60's; also, for many students the, the MBE's are a weakness and therefore, if you do a little better than required on the written portion, it can compensate for a lower score on the MBE portion.

what state??( 1/3 MBE state, or 1/2 MBE state??)

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Tanicius

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:00 pm

northwood wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Hey guys, just asked my adviser a direct question about what we should be aiming for on the MBE, percentage wise, at this point in the course. The reply, which I think is fairly good news:
Hi Tanicius,
Hope you're doing well!
Most students at this point are in the high 50's of 60's in terms of the percentage of MBE questions they are getting correct. Keep in mind that we all have certain subjects we are stronger in than others so you want to focus on your overall score and not scores in any one subject. Also, you are finally getting to the point in the course where you will start to have time to go back and review the subjects you have covered and as you finally have time to review, practice and memorize the nuances that are frequently tested, your scores will start to creep up. Walking into the exam, you want to try and score in the mid 60's; also, for many students the, the MBE's are a weakness and therefore, if you do a little better than required on the written portion, it can compensate for a lower score on the MBE portion.

what state??( 1/3 MBE state, or 1/2 MBE state??)
1/2 MBE. Sorry should have specified.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by NC1 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:25 pm

Tanicius wrote:
northwood wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Hey guys, just asked my adviser a direct question about what we should be aiming for on the MBE, percentage wise, at this point in the course. The reply, which I think is fairly good news:
Hi Tanicius,
Hope you're doing well!
Most students at this point are in the high 50's of 60's in terms of the percentage of MBE questions they are getting correct. Keep in mind that we all have certain subjects we are stronger in than others so you want to focus on your overall score and not scores in any one subject. Also, you are finally getting to the point in the course where you will start to have time to go back and review the subjects you have covered and as you finally have time to review, practice and memorize the nuances that are frequently tested, your scores will start to creep up. Walking into the exam, you want to try and score in the mid 60's; also, for many students the, the MBE's are a weakness and therefore, if you do a little better than required on the written portion, it can compensate for a lower score on the MBE portion.

what state??( 1/3 MBE state, or 1/2 MBE state??)
1/2 MBE. Sorry should have specified.
Would you mind sending the lecture handouts to me, I don't even remember how to email my advisor lol.......I don't think I ever did. Either or will do lol

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by numbertwo88 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:29 pm

That's definitely good news because Con Law is not going to break 60% from my end.

I seriously hate the constitution.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Lilly76 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:51 pm

NJ is 50% and PA is 45% so I'll also take that as good news!
numbertwo88 wrote:That's definitely good news because Con Law is not going to break 60% from my end.

I seriously hate the constitution.
I'm ok with Con Law except with the powers of congress questions. Screw Congress.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by northwood » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:01 pm

seing as congress decided to shut down for a while back in the Fall, wouldn't it be necessary and proper for the bar examiners to shut down con law from all bar exams??

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by WonkyPanda » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:43 pm

Do you guys know if the CA bar ever doubles on writing subjects? For example, if you get a con law, torts, contracts on day 1, you can be sure neither of those 3 are on day 3?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by simonesa » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:35 pm

One of the only exam tips I have remembered is that the Best Evidence Rule is frequently the wrong answer on the MBE. However, every time it comes up on my MBE PQs, it is the correct answer...and it comes up fairly often. I understand the doctrine and rule, but every time I see it I start to doubt myself, because Themis told me it is frequently the wrong answer!

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