Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[MrBriggs360]

I also got a % for completing them, although I always had to re-fresh my browser before the percentage was updated.

Exact same issue, I always have to refresh.

[zot1]

I love how relatively easy performance tests can be, but man, they are so long and I just dislike them tons.

[Confused7]

I tried 2 questions from the first NY Multiple Choice set just for kicks and failed miserably. I don't know how to drill the NY distinctions and topics into my head when I feel like I've been focusing on the MBEs for so long...stuff like partnerships, corporations, and secured transactions, and even family law (because it was done such a long time ago) just seems so foreign.

[sd5289]

There's no point worrying about checking off review assignments. They don't count towards completion % and as far as I can tell just appear in a set order over time (they don't change based on what lectures you've covered/what practice problems you've done or where your weaknesses are).

They absolutely count as a % for me, and sometimes a large %. I don't know if it's different for the rest of you.

Yeah they've definitely been counting toward my % as well.

[collegewriter]

I've been considering doing a set of MBE questions in test mode instead of interactive. Has anyone tried both ways and felt one way was better than the other? I tend to get on a wrong streak so I feel like one wrong answer tends to spiral into more but on the other hand reading the explanations right after helps and sometimes the same rule comes up in a later question during the same set.

I feel the same way as you in regards to this ^. However, I feel like because the regular MBE sets are also meant to teach me rules, it makes more sense to do them in interactive mode. I'm not concerned about practicing test mode because the milestone exams already do that.

I do interactive because I put the rule statements into an Excel doc after every question. Like you said, rules come up more than once per set and you can improve within the set. I think the point of the sets is to get better and reinforce learning and practice, not to see how you will do in timed conditions.

I honestly feel that most of us will have no problem doing things under timed conditions because we will have drilled so many questions.

[collegewriter]

There's no point worrying about checking off review assignments. They don't count towards completion % and as far as I can tell just appear in a set order over time (they don't change based on what lectures you've covered/what practice problems you've done or where your weaknesses are).

They absolutely count as a % for me, and sometimes a large %. I don't know if it's different for the rest of you.

Yeah they've definitely been counting toward my % as well.

They count for me as well. Except one time I think it didn't. Or maybe that was an essay. I know it's artificial to care about the percent but sometimes reaching it or near it is the only measure of my success for the day and I will so take those small victories!

[always_raining]

There's no point worrying about checking off review assignments. They don't count towards completion % and as far as I can tell just appear in a set order over time (they don't change based on what lectures you've covered/what practice problems you've done or where your weaknesses are).

They absolutely count as a % for me, and sometimes a large %. I don't know if it's different for the rest of you.

Yeah they've definitely been counting toward my % as well.

They count for me as well. Except one time I think it didn't. Or maybe that was an essay. I know it's artificial to care about the percent but sometimes reaching it or near it is the only measure of my success for the day and I will so take those small victories!

What percent of the course are you done with? I swear I used to get something from those, and someone else mentioned that you don't get as much % from certain assignments the further you are along, but I don't know if it's true. I'm at 65% now. All I know is that my percentage doesnt go up anymore for those assignments. But then again, I never refreshed it to double check, so it could be that.

[Pickled]

Does anybody have any tips or resources to share to help with grasping Property? I cannot seem to move my MBE scores for that one subject above 52% no matter how much time I put into it.

[somuchbooty]

Does anybody have any tips or resources to share to help with grasping Property? I cannot seem to move my MBE scores for that one subject above 52% no matter how much time I put into it.

besides telling you to review mortgages over and over again, not sure there's one big tip that'll improve your score. But knowing mortgages is probably worth about 30-35% on its own.

[GULCPerson]

I think I've developed some kind of perverse Stockholm Syndrome, because I caught myself congratulating the essay question on being well-written.

Pro-tip: If you ever find yourself thinking "Well done VBBE, that was a clear, coherent question that adequately tested major substantive points (and not obscure exceptions) of domestic relations, property, and civil procedure!" then it's long past time to break for the day.

[sd5289]

Does anybody have any tips or resources to share to help with grasping Property? I cannot seem to move my MBE scores for that one subject above 52% no matter how much time I put into it.

besides telling you to review mortgages over and over again, not sure there's one big tip that'll improve your score. But knowing mortgages is probably worth about 30-35% on its own.

This, for sure. I was surprised at how many mortgage questions there are, but apparently that's normal after speaking to friends of mine doing other courses. Master mortgages, and you'll be well on our your way.

[sd5289]

Pro-tip: If you ever find yourself thinking "Well done VBBE, that was a clear, coherent question that adequately tested major substantive points (and not obscure exceptions) of domestic relations, property, and civil procedure!" then it's long past time to break for the day.

I'm easily amused these days, but

For example (and to try to salvage whatever non-bar funk we're all in): I went to dunkin' today like I normally do to get iced coffee and the neighborhood homeless guy was in there (he hangs out in there all the time). Today, Whitney Houston was playing on the radio and he would point at random people and sing "I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOUUUUUUUU." I found this incredible. And then one of the older guys who always sits in there, sipping a small coffee, was sitting with him at a table and I heard him go "good god shut up" on my way out.

Perhaps I'm losing it, but that was the best thing to happen all day.

[misterjames]

just a reminder to everyone, make sure you review the supplements Themis emailed out a few weeks back. i completely forgot about them until just now

[Worker and Parasite]

just a reminder to everyone, make sure you review the supplements Themis emailed out a few weeks back. i completely forgot about them until just now

You mean the final review outlines or something else?

[misterjames]

just a reminder to everyone, make sure you review the supplements Themis emailed out a few weeks back. i completely forgot about them until just now

You mean the final review outlines or something else?

no they sent out some supplements a few weeks ago specifying some changes to the large outlines. there was an MBE one and a NY specific one (i'm in NY, should have clarified). i don't know how many states had their own changes but everyone should have received the changes for the MBE material.

[sd5289]

just a reminder to everyone, make sure you review the supplements Themis emailed out a few weeks back. i completely forgot about them until just now

You mean the final review outlines or something else?

no they sent out some supplements a few weeks ago specifying some changes to the large outlines. there was an MBE one and a NY specific one (i'm in NY, should have clarified). i don't know how many states had their own changes but everyone should have received the changes for the MBE material.

I looked at those when they came out and didn't see a huge difference. Did I miss something?

Also, another NY Wills question:

Ran into this during a practice essay...am I right that a will cannot be revoked by a subsequent trust? I got confused by the subsequent testamentary instrument option, and dealt with a practice essay that had a will followed by a duly executed trust. I know there is no incorporation by reference, but that wasn't the issue in this practice problem. I didn't take wills or T&E, so I'm new to these subjects and sorry if this sounds stupid, but revocation by a subsequent testamentary instrument has to be another will that conforms with the Will Act formalities, yes? It can't be a duly executed trust?

ETA: actually I've just re-read the long outline, and it says "a subsequent writing expressing the intent to revoke the will." So it can be anything so long as it's executed correctly?

[milesdavisjd]

If someone could please explain the GD bar exam to my non-lawyer husband so he would get off my back, that would be awesome. I know he's trying to help me chill out by saying that I will obviously pass because I was in the top of my class, but he just does not understand the amount of work that needs to be put in to translate good grades to passing the bar exam. I am way behind and in panic-mode and he is just oblivious.

I gotta say, as someone dating an attorney, I find it even more irritating when I decide to take a few hours off at night and my SO is like "should you really be seeing your pal tonight? Bar exam time is for studying, and you should be more stressed out!" Yes, I am stressed, and I don't need your sass! Sorry but I can't study for more than 10 hours a day! Ugh.

Some of my friends try to reassure me and that's irritating too, though. It's all terrible.

My husband is an attorney who took the bar exam in '06... After seeing how crazy two weeks of 12 hour days made me, he was like... Chill. You're making this harder than it needs to be. And you know what, he's right. After reducing my schedule and actually taking a few days off, my scores started to improve significantly. So don't let the hustle wear you out!

[chipperjones]

Finally broke 70% on a CivPro MBE PQ today. Just hit 51% on Progress Bar. I vacillate between feeling hopelessly behind and knowing that I can easily get to 75% by completing 1%/day from now until test day(s).

By the way, 0.4% for Wills outline and lecture is bullshit. Thanks for that, Themis: only took me 3+ hours at 2x speed.

[GULCPerson]

just a reminder to everyone, make sure you review the supplements Themis emailed out a few weeks back. i completely forgot about them until just now

You mean the final review outlines or something else?

no they sent out some supplements a few weeks ago specifying some changes to the large outlines. there was an MBE one and a NY specific one (i'm in NY, should have clarified). i don't know how many states had their own changes but everyone should have received the changes for the MBE material.

Note that the changes are already reflected in the online versions of the outlines, but NOT the printed books or the eReader versions. Ended up mattering quite a bit for VA because I was reading a whole section on my kindle about VA not granting same sex marriages, only to start the lectures and find out that this was no longer true.

[zot1]

Agency question:

[+] Spoiler

I had an agency essay regarding this restaurant deal where the agent was not supposed to order supplies from this place. She did anyway because otherwise there would be no essay. When the dude found out, he refused to pay, but there's also no mention that he returned the supplies. The model answer goes into collateral estoppel to hold the dude liable.

My question is, why not ratified authority? After all, he learned of the material benefits of the contract and made no attempt to return the supplies thereby keeping the benefit of the contract. Is it because the principal must know about the contract before or when it happens?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Side note: I wish my facebook would stop showing messages of people celebrating the three-day weekend

[Mad Hatter]

Finally broke 70% on a CivPro MBE PQ today. Just hit 51% on Progress Bar. I vacillate between feeling hopelessly behind and knowing that I can easily get to 75% by completing 1%/day from now until test day(s).

By the way, 0.4% for Wills outline and lecture is bullshit. Thanks for that, Themis: only took me 3+ hours at 2x speed.

How did you prep for civ pro? I'm having trouble cracking 55%...

[habz]

How on earth do they determine that these are fighting words? Maybe its the New Yorker in me, but I hear things like this everyday and nobody ever gets too worked up about it.

[+] Spoiler

A schoolteacher makes a dynamic and emotional plea for an increase in teacher salaries on a weekday at noon in front of the state's Department of Education offices. More than one hundred supporters, many of them elementary school students, join in chanting "Earning means learning!" through megaphones. The schoolteacher repeats that his lack of earning capacity makes him "want to punch our lawmakers in the face so hard they forget how to add." The whole protest lasts thirty minutes. A state statute punishes "any person who shall intentionally threaten the life or safety of any public official for any act which he performed as part of his public office." Which of the following statements is correct concerning the possible punishment of the schoolteacher under this statute?

[always_raining]

How on earth do they determine that these are fighting words? Maybe its the New Yorker in me, but I hear things like this everyday and nobody ever gets too worked up about it.

[+] Spoiler

A schoolteacher makes a dynamic and emotional plea for an increase in teacher salaries on a weekday at noon in front of the state's Department of Education offices. More than one hundred supporters, many of them elementary school students, join in chanting "Earning means learning!" through megaphones. The schoolteacher repeats that his lack of earning capacity makes him "want to punch our lawmakers in the face so hard they forget how to add." The whole protest lasts thirty minutes. A state statute punishes "any person who shall intentionally threaten the life or safety of any public official for any act which he performed as part of his public office." Which of the following statements is correct concerning the possible punishment of the schoolteacher under this statute?

I seem to remember those not being fighting words in this answer because he said he wanted to, not that he actually was going to do it. But I agree, even if he didnt qualify it by saying "want to," it's not very aggressive.

[henry flower]

Just wanted to share my basic strategy for using Themis:

• 1. Before I jump into a new topic, I skim the final review outline (if available), just to see what's being covered. If there isn't a final review outline (i.e., if it's a non-MBE subject), I just skim the TOC for the main outline. And when I mean skim, I mean it: I don't spend more than a few minutes here.
  2. Next, I watch a small cluster (2-4) of lecture videos on a related topic (for example, I watched all of the videos on federalism together). So far, I've been able to watch them all at double-speed, filling out and highlighting (if I'm allowed to by the PDF!) the "handout" as I go along.
  3. Then, I read the outline related to what I just read, with the state-specific "distinctions" outline alongside the main outline for MBE subjects. I highlight important points from the lecture and unexpected or unfamiliar things as I read AND (critically) annotate the main outline with the key state-specific distinctions.
  4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until I'm finished with a subject.
  5. After I'm done with the subject, I watch the state-specific distinctions lecture (if applicable) and complete the handout.
  6. Then, I mark all of the outlines complete.
  7. Next, I do the first two sets of MBE practice questions for that subject in "Interactive Mode." I create a word document for each subject called "[Subject] MBEs." Anytime I get a question wrong or (critically) get a question right but have any uncertainty about the rule, I cut and paste the pertinent parts of the Answer/Explanation into the document, using headings that include the Q # and a brief description that refreshes my memory about the question or (for more straightforward "I didn't know that rule" situations) states the topic. Those documents have been my most helpful study tool.
  8. Then, I review the handout and the "[Subject] MBEs" documents.
  9. Next, I go to the third set of MBEs. I do these in "Test Mode," so I don't know what I got wrong until I'm done. However, I still carefully review the answers and add them to the "[Subject] MBEs" document.

It's nothing revolutionary, but it took me a little while to figure this out so I thought I would share. Following the Themis "tasks" and trying to read 40+ pages of a really dense outline at a time with no context was simply not working at all (I just don't have the attention span and the outlines are not well-written) and approaching the state-specific stuff separately just seemed really inefficient. Doing it this way, I not only retain more info, but I can really zoom through the substantive topics as well.

Thanks for sharing! I actually did receive final review outlines for the non-MBE subjects in my Themis inbox as a zip file. You should be receiving them too if you haven't already.

I haven't gotten one of these mysterious zip files, but it would be nice since I started non-MBE subjects today

it's in the message in your inbox on May 18th. Or it might be different for different states?

I got mine on June 2nd.

Yeah, I've checked every email and every message in my Themis inbox and I've not gotten it.

In Maryland and I still haven't gotten this mysterious zip file with final review outlines for non-MBE subjects.

[somuchbooty]

I'm kind of amazed at how terribly written these evidence questions are. There are several questions where if you read something to mean something else in the facts, you'll get the answer wrong, and the misunderstanding seems kind of likely.