Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[Nebby]

I have been skipping the practice MPTs, because I felt like I could handle the MPT.

The graded MPT is exactly what I thought it would be, and it is probably the most enjoyable part of the bar. Being able to create your own original arguments, so long as they are in conformity with the law and purpose of the assignment, is so refreshing after drilling MBE PQ sets or writing practice essays.

Petition to make the MPT worth 30% of all future bar exams plz

(how the fuck is the MPT, which is arguably the greatest indicator of how someone will succeed as an actual lawyer, only worth 10% in Illinois, smdh)

[BarPreppin'12]

I have been skipping the practice MPTs, because I felt like I could handle the MPT.

The graded MPT is exactly what I thought it would be, and it is probably the most enjoyable part of the bar. Being able to create your own original arguments, so long as they are in conformity with the law and purpose of the assignment, is so refreshing after drilling MBE PQ sets or writing practice essays.

Petition to make the MPT worth 30% of all future bar exams plz

(how the fuck is the MPT, which is arguably the greatest indicator of how someone will succeed as an actual lawyer, only worth 10% in Illinois, smdh)

Normally, I'd agree with you. Essays are refreshing compared to multiple choice questions because you can make the law "your own." However, at least where I am, there are 15 possible subjects that can be tested. Meaning, in order to make an argument and analyze the facts to the law, I must first memorize the law, or at least memorize it enough to be able to bullshit it. It is way to overwhelming. With multiple choice, there is a 25% chance of answering it right if you absolutely do nothing but guess. In fact, I bet that if you were to go through a set of 50 problems, not reading the question and only reading the answer choices and picking one you thought was right, you would get, most likely, above a 30%. Most of the questions get easier as you practice and spot patters. With essay questions, there are no patterns to spot. You can practice a million essays, and if the law is not internalized, than it's a tough sell to be able to score anything near passing.

For the first time of doing law school tests, I prefer multiple choice here. At least this way, if I forget the law, I have a chance at getting it right. Also, I think having the answer right there in front of you is as much "open book" as you can get from this test. It provides some comfort knowing that the key to getting a few percentage points higher is right there in front of you.

[misterjames]

How many hours a day are you guys putting in at this point?

I'm studying from 7am - 11pm with a 3 hour break in the middle of the afternoon because I need a nap. I spend the morning doing at least 50 MBE questions and meticulously go over each answer, even the right ones. I take 20 minutes after that to eat, then write a practice essay. I peter around on the internet or nap and eat from 2pm-5pm. I watch lectures from 6pm - 11pm. I'll be finished with the lectures tomorrow. I expect to change up my schedule after that. To what? IDK yet.

I am a slacker.

If you were above median at a T14 during 1L, you do not need more than 6 hours a day.

fucking LOL

[ndp1234]

What do I need to score on the MBE (assuming average scores on MEE and MPT) to get a 276 on the UBE? I'm so scared. I read somewhere that getting even a 270 on the UBE is really difficult. NY requires a 266. But I want to score a 276 just in case I need to move to Colorado for personal reasons. Does anyone know? Thanks!

Strategies and Tactics recommends a minimum 138 MBE to pass Colorado. I'm sure we're all going to get that score doing Themis. I doubt that all of the nuances that we're most likely getting wrong (and affecting our overall percentage) will show up on the exam. We're being exposed to it as a "just in case." I'm taking it one day at a time and keep reminding myself of that, which calms me when I get crazy stressed and start doubting myself. It can't be too difficult to get a 270 because in Colorado at least since the passage rate for first time takers in July is like 70%. Just go through the program putting in your best and you'll do fine.

[ChocolateTruffle]

What do I need to score on the MBE (assuming average scores on MEE and MPT) to get a 276 on the UBE? I'm so scared. I read somewhere that getting even a 270 on the UBE is really difficult. NY requires a 266. But I want to score a 276 just in case I need to move to Colorado for personal reasons. Does anyone know? Thanks!

Strategies and Tactics recommends a minimum 138 MBE to pass Colorado. I'm sure we're all going to get that score doing Themis. I doubt that all of the nuances that we're most likely getting wrong (and affecting our overall percentage) will show up on the exam. We're being exposed to it as a "just in case." I'm taking it one day at a time and keep reminding myself of that, which calms me when I get crazy stressed and start doubting myself. It can't be too difficult to get a 270 because in Colorado at least since the passage rate for first time takers in July is like 70%. Just go through the program putting in your best and you'll do fine.

Thank you! Some days I'm clam and think "I got this!" Then other days I am in full panic mode, afraid I'm going to fail, and think all this time and money will have been wasted. This whole process is seriously nerve wracking!!

[Chardee_MacDennis]

I have been skipping the practice MPTs, because I felt like I could handle the MPT.

The graded MPT is exactly what I thought it would be, and it is probably the most enjoyable part of the bar. Being able to create your own original arguments, so long as they are in conformity with the law and purpose of the assignment, is so refreshing after drilling MBE PQ sets or writing practice essays.

Petition to make the MPT worth 30% of all future bar exams plz

(how the fuck is the MPT, which is arguably the greatest indicator of how someone will succeed as an actual lawyer, only worth 10% in Illinois, smdh)

If only

[ndp1234]

I have been skipping the practice MPTs, because I felt like I could handle the MPT.

The graded MPT is exactly what I thought it would be, and it is probably the most enjoyable part of the bar. Being able to create your own original arguments, so long as they are in conformity with the law and purpose of the assignment, is so refreshing after drilling MBE PQ sets or writing practice essays.

Petition to make the MPT worth 30% of all future bar exams plz

(how the fuck is the MPT, which is arguably the greatest indicator of how someone will succeed as an actual lawyer, only worth 10% in Illinois, smdh)

If only

Wish it were the last portion of the bar, not the first.

[jchiles]

I have been skipping the practice MPTs, because I felt like I could handle the MPT.

The graded MPT is exactly what I thought it would be, and it is probably the most enjoyable part of the bar. Being able to create your own original arguments, so long as they are in conformity with the law and purpose of the assignment, is so refreshing after drilling MBE PQ sets or writing practice essays.

Petition to make the MPT worth 30% of all future bar exams plz

(how the fuck is the MPT, which is arguably the greatest indicator of how someone will succeed as an actual lawyer, only worth 10% in Illinois, smdh)

I've been doing the practice PTs but I have no idea how its useful for anything other than going through the motions of outlining an answer and then writing it. I'd kind of like to have one or two more graded MPTs just to get confirmation that I am getting the style right from someone else, or maybe just a model answer or two to compare mine with (rather than the list of points we should be addressing).

[unidentifiable]

...i used my outline a little on my graded essay.

feels kinda dirty

[Fivedham]

The performance test in PA is worth 65% of your essay grade, which in turn is worth 55% overall (45% MBE). So I'm working my ass off on killing the performance test in PA so I can reasonably half-ass the essays and still pass.

[Easy-E]

Graded MPT threw me a little bit, only because I just felt like I wasn't constrained enough . Like, I just argue? Just go for it? I also felt like I was just regurgitating what was in the file for some parts, but seems like they wanted that. Ran up against the clock though, had more I would have liked to include, but I feel good about it.

[Nebby]

Graded MPT threw me a little bit, only because I just felt like I wasn't constrained enough . Like, I just argue? Just go for it? I also felt like I was just regurgitating what was in the file for some parts, but seems like they wanted that. Ran up against the clock though, had more I would have liked to include, but I feel good about it.

Same. The only thing I didn't do was headnotes. I thought it wanted like a persuasive letter, not a memo. The sample answer though had headnotes for intro, arguments for, response to counter arguments, etc.

[Easy-E]

Graded MPT threw me a little bit, only because I just felt like I wasn't constrained enough . Like, I just argue? Just go for it? I also felt like I was just regurgitating what was in the file for some parts, but seems like they wanted that. Ran up against the clock though, had more I would have liked to include, but I feel good about it.

Same. The only thing I didn't do was headnotes. I thought it wanted like a persuasive letter, not a memo. The sample answer though had headnotes for intro, arguments for, response to counter arguments, etc.

Yeah I didn't do that either. Also,

[+] Spoiler

the sample answer keeps saying "opponents of F.A. 38 argue...", but nothing in the file actually had opposition to the bill, just possible opposition. I kept referring to the opposing arguments as "potential opposition", but it certainly felt weird making my opponents argument for them to a degree. I know it's what they wanted, but idk, feels weird to say "the opponents argue" when they actually haven't.

Either way, MPT is chill. I just hope the "form" of it isn't something weird like jury instructions or explaining Snapchat to a senior partner

[Nebby]

Graded MPT threw me a little bit, only because I just felt like I wasn't constrained enough . Like, I just argue? Just go for it? I also felt like I was just regurgitating what was in the file for some parts, but seems like they wanted that. Ran up against the clock though, had more I would have liked to include, but I feel good about it.

Same. The only thing I didn't do was headnotes. I thought it wanted like a persuasive letter, not a memo. The sample answer though had headnotes for intro, arguments for, response to counter arguments, etc.

Yeah I didn't do that either. Also,

[+] Spoiler

the sample answer keeps saying "opponents of F.A. 38 argue...", but nothing in the file actually had opposition to the bill, just possible opposition. I kept referring to the opposing arguments as "potential opposition", but it certainly felt weird making my opponents argument for them to a degree. I know it's what they wanted, but idk, feels weird to say "the opponents argue" when they actually haven't.

Either way, MPT is chill. I just hope the "form" of it isn't something weird like jury instructions or explaining Snapchat to a senior partner

It makes me feel better about skipping all of the practice MPTs. If there's one thing I have done a shit load of in internships, it's assignments that are just like the MPT.

[unidentifiable]

Graded MPT threw me a little bit, only because I just felt like I wasn't constrained enough . Like, I just argue? Just go for it? I also felt like I was just regurgitating what was in the file for some parts, but seems like they wanted that. Ran up against the clock though, had more I would have liked to include, but I feel good about it.

Same. The only thing I didn't do was headnotes. I thought it wanted like a persuasive letter, not a memo. The sample answer though had headnotes for intro, arguments for, response to counter arguments, etc.

Yeah I didn't do that either. Also,

[+] Spoiler

the sample answer keeps saying "opponents of F.A. 38 argue...", but nothing in the file actually had opposition to the bill, just possible opposition. I kept referring to the opposing arguments as "potential opposition", but it certainly felt weird making my opponents argument for them to a degree. I know it's what they wanted, but idk, feels weird to say "the opponents argue" when they actually haven't.

Either way, MPT is chill. I just hope the "form" of it isn't something weird like jury instructions or explaining Snapchat to a senior partner

It makes me feel better about skipping all of the practice MPTs. If there's one thing I have done a shit load of in internships, it's assignments that are just like the MPT.

When I did this, I thought it was supposed to be like a short handout. No fucking legislator is going to want to read some super-factual 4 page thing. I wrote it really brief, like a hand-out, that was super persuasive.

So shitty.

[NaeDeen]

The performance test in PA is worth 65% of your essay grade, which in turn is worth 55% overall (45% MBE). So I'm working my ass off on killing the performance test in PA so I can reasonably half-ass the essays and still pass.

In MD, the MBE is worth 33% and Essay/MPT is worth 66%.

[luxxe]

Graded MPT threw me a little bit, only because I just felt like I wasn't constrained enough . Like, I just argue? Just go for it? I also felt like I was just regurgitating what was in the file for some parts, but seems like they wanted that. Ran up against the clock though, had more I would have liked to include, but I feel good about it.

Same. The only thing I didn't do was headnotes. I thought it wanted like a persuasive letter, not a memo. The sample answer though had headnotes for intro, arguments for, response to counter arguments, etc.

Yeah I didn't do that either. Also,

[+] Spoiler

the sample answer keeps saying "opponents of F.A. 38 argue...", but nothing in the file actually had opposition to the bill, just possible opposition. I kept referring to the opposing arguments as "potential opposition", but it certainly felt weird making my opponents argument for them to a degree. I know it's what they wanted, but idk, feels weird to say "the opponents argue" when they actually haven't.

Either way, MPT is chill. I just hope the "form" of it isn't something weird like jury instructions or explaining Snapchat to a senior partner

It makes me feel better about skipping all of the practice MPTs. If there's one thing I have done a shit load of in internships, it's assignments that are just like the MPT.

When I did this, I thought it was supposed to be like a short handout. No fucking legislator is going to want to read some super-factual 4 page thing. I wrote it really brief, like a hand-out, that was super persuasive.

So shitty.

Same! I've written these for internships, the sample is not what they would have wanted. Woops.

[bobbypin]

Learn from my mistake: when the task memo says, "short paragraphs or bullet points" do both. I answered in short paragraphs and my grader said I didn't follow the directions. I understood the "or" to really mean or rather than you must do this.

[Easy-E]

I'm getting so good at talking myself out of the obvious, right answer on con law questions. Session 4 sucks.

[bulinus]

The performance test in PA is worth 65% of your essay grade, which in turn is worth 55% overall (45% MBE). So I'm working my ass off on killing the performance test in PA so I can reasonably half-ass the essays and still pass.

No. The PT is worth 1.5x an individual essay question, not all six.

[ultimolugar]

Anyone here, who is doing FL, find the corporations questions a little... FUCKED?

[Fivedham]

The performance test in PA is worth 65% of your essay grade, which in turn is worth 55% overall (45% MBE). So I'm working my ass off on killing the performance test in PA so I can reasonably half-ass the essays and still pass.

No. The PT is worth 1.5x an individual essay question, not all six.

Right, my mistake.

[Easy-E]

I honestly think I would get 2-3 more MBE questions correct per session if I had the questions in writing. Not bitching about Themis, I just find myself missing questions because of one word which I know I would have underlined or marked somehow.

[ChocolateTruffle]

I honestly think I would get 2-3 more MBE questions correct per session if I had the questions in writing. Not bitching about Themis, I just find myself missing questions because of one word which I know I would have underlined or marked somehow.

Me too. I wish the questions came with a highlighting option! Same with the essay questions. Totally missed a person in an essay who I would have underlined if it were on paper.

[bobbypin]

I honestly think I would get 2-3 more MBE questions correct per session if I had the questions in writing. Not bitching about Themis, I just find myself missing questions because of one word which I know I would have underlined or marked somehow.

Me too. I wish the questions came with a highlighting option! Same with the essay questions. Totally missed a person in an essay who I would have underlined if it were on paper.

Agreed.