BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[rinkrat19]

Does anyone else sometimes get tripped up by the people in the MBE questions and have to go back and sort out who the woman, neighbor, sister, farmer, buyer, etc. are? I don't know if giving them all names would be better or worse.

[mushybrain]

"Friend" gets me fairly often because in my head each is the friend of the other.

[musicfor18]

"Friend" gets me fairly often because in my head each is the friend of the other.

This made me ROFL. That may be a sign that bar study has gotten to me. But I agree, I never remember who "the friend" is by the end of the fact pattern.

[murray18]

Are the leansheets worth buying? If I just memorize the rules in those leansheets, will I be mostly good on the essay subjects? I didn't take a handful of those subjects, and I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed...

[Devlin]

How are you handling the MPT's? I've done a couple where I just read the facts and library and try to build an outline of what my actual answer would look like. And then I'll type out the headings or whatever, which are generally pretty close to what Barbri's look like. I feel like going through and writing the entire thing may be counterproductive and/or a waste of time. In addition, Barbri's sample answers are way, way too good for any normal person to actually write in 90 minutes. How much of that do we actually need to hit to get points?

Any previous bar takers have advice for the MPT?

I have only done one MPT and thought it was wasted time. Currently, I am sitting down to do another one and halfway through the first case I'm contemplating quitting.

I know how to write a memo. I don't see the benefits of reading fake law to write fake memos. I wrote tons of memos in law school and as a law clerk.

Hopefully someone can jump and tell us otherwise. I don't really see myself going all in on an MPT during practice. Basically just going to read everything, outline an answer, and move on to more substantive stuff.

ETA: Yeah. Just quit. Total time waste. Going to make commercial paper flash cards instead.

[diowad]

I should also mention that I'm probably the slowest reader and writer to ever graduate law school which is why the MPT may give me fits. But I feel like if I put a premium on hitting the big issues like in the regular essays with some short but accurate analysis, it should be enough to not worry about it correct?

[charlesxavier]

How are you handling the MPT's? I've done a couple where I just read the facts and library and try to build an outline of what my actual answer would look like. And then I'll type out the headings or whatever, which are generally pretty close to what Barbri's look like. I feel like going through and writing the entire thing may be counterproductive and/or a waste of time. In addition, Barbri's sample answers are way, way too good for any normal person to actually write in 90 minutes. How much of that do we actually need to hit to get points?

Any previous bar takers have advice for the MPT?

I have only done one MPT and thought it was wasted time. Currently, I am sitting down to do another one and halfway through the first case I'm contemplating quitting.

I know how to write a memo. I don't see the benefits of reading fake law to write fake memos. I wrote tons of memos in law school and as a law clerk.

Hopefully someone can jump and tell us otherwise. I don't really see myself going all in on an MPT during practice. Basically just going to read everything, outline an answer, and move on to more substantive stuff.

ETA: Yeah. Just quit. Total time waste. Going to make commercial paper flash cards instead.

I would definitely recommend doing 1 or 2 strictly timed practice MPTs. My school offered an MPT workshop last month and a lot of people couldn't finish in 90 minutes. They aren't that hard but you need to have a game plan in place to make sure that you finish on time.

[Birdnals]

Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

[cdelgado]

What the hell is real property set 5? That was ridiculous.

[topper10s]

Apologies if you all have covered this, but I just found the thread today.

Any idea what a raw score on barbri's simulated MBE might turn into when scaled? Is that something Barbri will tell us whenever most states have done it?

[kmp127]

I'm getting really frustrated with self-grading essays because the last 4 "model answers" had whole paragraphs that were just completely wrong. I understand they are trying to show that you don't need to be right in order to have a good answer -- but how does it help me when I'm trying to check to see if I got it right? I'm getting wary of self-grading because I'll probably start teach myself wrong stuff...... How can I avoid this?

Anyone else have this issue?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

What is a safe MBE score to just move on to focus on the essays?

I am doing practice essays and a couple I am passing or slightly below. MBE I have been in the 70% range using Barbri questions. I thought the essays could be a lot of bsing but practice questions in Corporations or Admin. Law for instance it seems like you can be really screwed if you don't know the right law to apply (ex. corporations question involving the right to petition for dissolution in a close corp if you own 20% or more of voting shares).

[Kage3212]

I'm getting really frustrated with self-grading essays because the last 4 "model answers" had whole paragraphs that were just completely wrong. I understand they are trying to show that you don't need to be right in order to have a good answer -- but how does it help me when I'm trying to check to see if I got it right? I'm getting wary of self-grading because I'll probably start teach myself wrong stuff...... How can I avoid this?

Anyone else have this issue?

Usually, that model answer is derived from some bar examination given in your designated state (at least, that Is what I believe to be the case here in PA). That means the board of law examiners (PA in my example) picked THAT ESSAY as one of the best essays to be submitted that year. So if you think the model answer is garbage, just imagine what the other 1-2k plus people in the state came up with....

But to more directly answer your question, there should be an examiners analysis that precedes the model answer (we have this in PA essay book). I would base your answer off of the examiner analysis. If no examiner analysis, dont know what to tell ya.

[941law]

Question for Barbri Re-takers:

what new material did they send you?
When was the lectures, online material, etc ready for you to start? Did you have to wait for May 22nd like all of us?

[cdelgado]

I'm getting really frustrated with self-grading essays because the last 4 "model answers" had whole paragraphs that were just completely wrong. I understand they are trying to show that you don't need to be right in order to have a good answer -- but how does it help me when I'm trying to check to see if I got it right? I'm getting wary of self-grading because I'll probably start teach myself wrong stuff...... How can I avoid this?

Anyone else have this issue?

Usually, that model answer is derived from some bar examination given in your designated state (at least, that Is what I believe to be the case here in PA). That means the board of law examiners (PA in my example) picked THAT ESSAY as one of the best essays to be submitted that year. So if you think the model answer is garbage, just imagine what the other 1-2k plus people in the state came up with....

But to more directly answer your question, there should be an examiners analysis that precedes the model answer (we have this in PA essay book). I would base your answer off of the examiner analysis. If no examiner analysis, dont know what to tell ya.

That would be GREAT if my state had an analysis. I think me and kmp127 might be in the same state, where we just get crappy student answers and that's it. Thanks Barbri.

[kmp127]

I'm getting really frustrated with self-grading essays because the last 4 "model answers" had whole paragraphs that were just completely wrong. I understand they are trying to show that you don't need to be right in order to have a good answer -- but how does it help me when I'm trying to check to see if I got it right? I'm getting wary of self-grading because I'll probably start teach myself wrong stuff...... How can I avoid this?

Anyone else have this issue?

Usually, that model answer is derived from some bar examination given in your designated state (at least, that Is what I believe to be the case here in PA). That means the board of law examiners (PA in my example) picked THAT ESSAY as one of the best essays to be submitted that year. So if you think the model answer is garbage, just imagine what the other 1-2k plus people in the state came up with....

But to more directly answer your question, there should be an examiners analysis that precedes the model answer (we have this in PA essay book). I would base your answer off of the examiner analysis. If no examiner analysis, dont know what to tell ya.

That would be GREAT if my state had an analysis. I think me and kmp127 might be in the same state, where we just get crappy student answers and that's it. Thanks Barbri.

No examiner's analysis here in TX. And I'm on the 6th one in a row with a completely wrong answer (at least it sounds completely wrong?????). I have no clue anymore. I sincerely hope this is what I'm up against.....

[rinkrat19]

Damn, you guys. Oregon gives at least an examiner's answer outline, and also an examiner's answer essay on most of the questions.

[Neff]

In the other thread, people are saying how, in an average 50% MBE state, if you get 70th percentile on MBE, you just have to beat out the bottom 1% in essays to pass. Statistically, I think that sounds about right, especially because a big chunk of people who fail didn't study at all so probably bombed both MBE and essays; there are just not going to be that many "splitters" who fail.

If you put in as much effort into MBE as most of us have, it's going to be really really hard to fail just because of essays.

[LawGuy321]

In the other thread, people are saying how, in an average 50% MBE state, if you get 70th percentile on MBE, you just have to beat out the bottom 1% in essays to pass. Statistically, I think that sounds about right, especially because a big chunk of people who fail didn't study at all so probably bombed both MBE and essays; there are just not going to be that many "splitters" who fail.

If you put in as much effort into MBE as most of us have, it's going to be really really hard to fail just because of essays.

#Truth. I also imagine that at least 1% of people just walk out of the test after knowing that they bombed. I heard through hearsay that last year's Florida test had people crying and several people let on essay day after reading the questions! IOW, there's your 2nd percentile--run with it.

[Neff]

In the other thread, people are saying how, in an average 50% MBE state, if you get 70th percentile on MBE, you just have to beat out the bottom 1% in essays to pass. Statistically, I think that sounds about right, especially because a big chunk of people who fail didn't study at all so probably bombed both MBE and essays; there are just not going to be that many "splitters" who fail.

If you put in as much effort into MBE as most of us have, it's going to be really really hard to fail just because of essays.

#Truth. I also imagine that at least 1% of people just walk out of the test after knowing that they bombed. I heard through hearsay that last year's Florida test had people crying and several people let on essay day after reading the questions! IOW, there's your 2nd percentile--run with it.

Yeah I've heard of people crying/leaving the test as well.

Now, I'm usually a very nice guy and never feel schadenfreude normally, but on bar exam day the sight of "the 1%" crying is going to make me feel sooooo good.

[Good Guy Gaud]

Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

That shit cracked me up

[acronyx]

Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

"What did he think I said?"

So...why can't we get his little mini-reviews without the questions in between? That would be fantastic.

[myrtlewinston]

1. Are the MBE workshops worth watching?

2. For those of you who prefer using flashcards, Leansheets now as a flashcard version.

[Good Guy Gaud]

If barbri asks me to review my outlines one more time ...

[Kage3212]

Guzman is my mother fucking boy. His review lectures pretty much say everything you need to know, and his 9 stages of drunk analysis if 180 as fuck.

"What did he think I said?"

So...why can't we get his little mini-reviews without the questions in between? That would be fantastic.

This is essentially what the MBE review thing that Barbri offered is (the thing you had to pay 100 bucks for). Guzman does each subject.