Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[SilverE2]

This federal tax lecture is fucking terrible and the guy isn't following the handout at all. I want to throw my laptop out a window.

I feel the same way about secured transactions.

[Tanicius]

This federal tax lecture is fucking terrible and the guy isn't following the handout at all. I want to throw my laptop out a window.

I feel the same way about secured transactions.

The MEE Secured Transactions guy was far and away the worst, both in explaining and following the handout.

[Genuine4ps]

Could someone help me out with this question?

A witness is cross-examined and states that he has never been convicted of a crime. He is later tried for perjury. At the perjury trial, he claims that his lawyer gave him erroneous advice that he wasn't every convicted. I was bouncing back and forth between the following two answers on how the jury find him:

C. not guilty, if the jury also finds that his reliance on the attorney's advice was reasonable.
D. not guilty, because he lacked the necessary mental state.

The correct answer is D, but that doesn't make any sense. The handout specifically states that general intent crimes (which is what perjury is) must be reasonable.

Note: This is a mistake of fact, not law--the explanation explicitly says so.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

how are you all tacking the last few weeks ( I don't finish leactures until July 9)? memorizing your notes and flashcards and doing 50-75 mixed MBE questions per day and then just writing down the rules as issue statements and doing one subject per day, or drilling essays? do you think this plan that I have tentatively scheduled for me is wise, or should I just disregard it and go with essays on essays ( I am still not confident I have the material down pat just yet)

I was wondering the same thing. I don't know what's best, but yesterday I wrote out one subject for each day in July up until the exam and that's what I'll focus on since before I was all over the place and couldn't keep track of anything - and my messy desk was driving me crazy. I've also dedicated each Sunday to the Performance Exam. I won't be watching any more videos unless there are any areas that I missed. For example, today I watched the 5 CA Evidence Videos because I put them off... And honestly, now I'm more confused than ever. I know I'm going to mix up CA and Fed laws on the essays. I'm also starting my day, and ending it, with a chunk of mixed MBE questions. What's scary is that when you plot down one subject per day, you realize how little time there is left to study. After today, I'll only have ONE more day to study ALL of evidence! What's even scarier is that I was reading old CA Bar Exams and I still can't spot very many issues!!! I can spot some, but not enough to pass. So here I am worried about the laws, but I won't even get to use them if I can't SPOT THE ISSUES!!

[Tanicius]

Could someone help me out with this question?

A witness is cross-examined and states that he has never been convicted of a crime. He is later tried for perjury. At the perjury trial, he claims that his lawyer gave him erroneous advice that he wasn't every convicted. I was bouncing back and forth between the following two answers on how the jury find him:

C. not guilty, if the jury also finds that his reliance on the attorney's advice was reasonable.
D. not guilty, because he lacked the necessary mental state.

The correct answer is D, but that doesn't make any sense. The handout specifically states that general intent crimes (which is what perjury is) must be reasonable.

Note: This is a mistake of fact, not law--the explanation explicitly says so.

He did not intend to tell a lie, because based on his talk with his attorney, he wasn't doing so. No requisite mental state of intent.

[j1987]

I hate the thought of doing my taxes each year ( and by doing them, I just go to a tax specialist and provide him the forms that he asks for) so I purposely did not take a tax class. If tax was on the bar exam, I honestly would consider taking thebar in another state

I thought about taking PA rather than NY, and then I'd just waive into NY when I could, but PA has tax.. so I'm taking NJ/NY

[SilverE2]

Could someone help me out with this question?

A witness is cross-examined and states that he has never been convicted of a crime. He is later tried for perjury. At the perjury trial, he claims that his lawyer gave him erroneous advice that he wasn't every convicted. I was bouncing back and forth between the following two answers on how the jury find him:

C. not guilty, if the jury also finds that his reliance on the attorney's advice was reasonable.
D. not guilty, because he lacked the necessary mental state.

The correct answer is D, but that doesn't make any sense. The handout specifically states that general intent crimes (which is what perjury is) must be reasonable.

Note: This is a mistake of fact, not law--the explanation explicitly says so.

If the handout actually says that (note that I didn't check it myself), then it's incorrect. Perjury at common law is a specific, not general intent crime.

[Genuine4ps]

Could someone help me out with this question?

A witness is cross-examined and states that he has never been convicted of a crime. He is later tried for perjury. At the perjury trial, he claims that his lawyer gave him erroneous advice that he wasn't every convicted. I was bouncing back and forth between the following two answers on how the jury find him:

C. not guilty, if the jury also finds that his reliance on the attorney's advice was reasonable.
D. not guilty, because he lacked the necessary mental state.

The correct answer is D, but that doesn't make any sense. The handout specifically states that general intent crimes (which is what perjury is) must be reasonable.

Note: This is a mistake of fact, not law--the explanation explicitly says so.

If the handout actually says that (note that I didn't check it myself), then it's incorrect. Perjury at common law is a specific, not general intent crime.

The handout states that there are 4 categories of specific intent: 1st degree murder, inchoate, assault, and theft.

If this is a specific intent crime, answer choice "D" makes perfect sense, but the lecture certainly doesn't mention perjury as a specific intent crime. I guess the 4 categories listed by Themis are not exhaustive.

[bobanderson]

how are you all tacking the last few weeks ( I don't finish leactures until July 9)? memorizing your notes and flashcards and doing 50-75 mixed MBE questions per day and then just writing down the rules as issue statements and doing one subject per day, or drilling essays? do you think this plan that I have tentatively scheduled for me is wise, or should I just disregard it and go with essays on essays ( I am still not confident I have the material down pat just yet)

I'm just re-reading the long outlines and then doing practice essays. But I find that I remember things best when I read them really thoroughly and think about them, so it works for me. I'm also creating memory devices out of all the important lists I come across.

[SilverE2]

Could someone help me out with this question?

A witness is cross-examined and states that he has never been convicted of a crime. He is later tried for perjury. At the perjury trial, he claims that his lawyer gave him erroneous advice that he wasn't every convicted. I was bouncing back and forth between the following two answers on how the jury find him:

C. not guilty, if the jury also finds that his reliance on the attorney's advice was reasonable.
D. not guilty, because he lacked the necessary mental state.

The correct answer is D, but that doesn't make any sense. The handout specifically states that general intent crimes (which is what perjury is) must be reasonable.

Note: This is a mistake of fact, not law--the explanation explicitly says so.

If the handout actually says that (note that I didn't check it myself), then it's incorrect. Perjury at common law is a specific, not general intent crime.

The handout states that there are 4 categories of specific intent: 1st degree murder, inchoate, assault, and theft.

If this is a specific intent crime, answer choice "D" makes perfect sense, but the lecture certainly doesn't mention perjury as a specific intent crime. I guess the 4 categories listed by Themis are not exhaustive.

It's not exhaustive. For example, any sort of attempt is a specific intent crime, as is a crime of dishonesty, like perjury, forgery, false pretenses (though I guess that would fall under theft).

[Prime]

I deviated from the Themis schedule over the weekend to learn Evidence and Texas Crim Pro. After the success I had there? I might do the same once I finish the lectures (Agency/Partnership, Secured and Commercial Paper).

[northwood]

Could someone help me out with this question?

A witness is cross-examined and states that he has never been convicted of a crime. He is later tried for perjury. At the perjury trial, he claims that his lawyer gave him erroneous advice that he wasn't every convicted. I was bouncing back and forth between the following two answers on how the jury find him:

C. not guilty, if the jury also finds that his reliance on the attorney's advice was reasonable.
D. not guilty, because he lacked the necessary mental state.

The correct answer is D, but that doesn't make any sense. The handout specifically states that general intent crimes (which is what perjury is) must be reasonable.

Note: This is a mistake of fact, not law--the explanation explicitly says so.

Generally specific intent crimes are felonies not misdemeanors. Perjury is misdemeanor, and misdemeanors are general intent crimes.a general intent crime is that you intended to do the act you did. perjury is a lie. therefore in order to commit perjury you must intend to lie. here the witness had the belief that he was not convicted of a crime. he obtained the belief after consulting is attorney on how he should repond. Relying on the attorneys advice negated his mental capacity to tell a lie as a response beecause he (mistakenly but honestly) thought it was not a lie. Therefore, he lacked the intent to lie.

because he lacked the intent to lie (the mens rea) he did not have all of the elements of the crime of perjury and should be found not guilty.

on a side note- he might want to get a new attorney and initiate a malpractice claim against his attorney

[champ33]

Why are the Property and Contracts MBEs 50x longer than Evidence questions, on average? Is this just Themis or is it representative of the actual exam? It makes those 34-question sections so painful....

[Tanicius]

Why are the Property and Contracts MBEs 50x longer than Evidence questions, on average? Is this just Themis or is it representative of the actual exam? It makes those 34-question sections so painful....

And they're doubly dumb because most of the long hypes are red herrings. Evidence, crim, Conlaw and torts get right to the point.

[Apple Tree]

how are you all tacking the last few weeks ( I don't finish leactures until July 9)? memorizing your notes and flashcards and doing 50-75 mixed MBE questions per day and then just writing down the rules as issue statements and doing one subject per day, or drilling essays? do you think this plan that I have tentatively scheduled for me is wise, or should I just disregard it and go with essays on essays ( I am still not confident I have the material down pat just yet)

I was wondering the same thing. I don't know what's best, but yesterday I wrote out one subject for each day in July up until the exam and that's what I'll focus on since before I was all over the place and couldn't keep track of anything - and my messy desk was driving me crazy. I've also dedicated each Sunday to the Performance Exam. I won't be watching any more videos unless there are any areas that I missed. For example, today I watched the 5 CA Evidence Videos because I put them off... And honestly, now I'm more confused than ever. I know I'm going to mix up CA and Fed laws on the essays. I'm also starting my day, and ending it, with a chunk of mixed MBE questions. What's scary is that when you plot down one subject per day, you realize how little time there is left to study. After today, I'll only have ONE more day to study ALL of evidence! What's even scarier is that I was reading old CA Bar Exams and I still can't spot very many issues!!! I can spot some, but not enough to pass. So here I am worried about the laws, but I won't even get to use them if I can't SPOT THE ISSUES!!

I feel exactly the same way, and I'm taking CA too. I'm totally panicing about the essays. On the MBE subjects I feel like I kinda know the law but I definitely can't recite the rules. On the CA essay subjects I don't think I've even remembered the law from the lectures.

[numbertwo88]

how are you all tacking the last few weeks ( I don't finish leactures until July 9)? memorizing your notes and flashcards and doing 50-75 mixed MBE questions per day and then just writing down the rules as issue statements and doing one subject per day, or drilling essays? do you think this plan that I have tentatively scheduled for me is wise, or should I just disregard it and go with essays on essays ( I am still not confident I have the material down pat just yet)

I literally have no idea what I'm doing. I have a handful of essay lectures remaining so I have to finish those eventually but I finished the most frequent essay question topic lectures first.

I plan on doing mixed MBE questions (and ignoring the remaining 1 topic MBE questions for now), aiming for about 50 a day. And at least 2 essays a day as well (outlining) + doing the graded essays which I've admittedly fell behind on because I didn't want to get another low grade after not knowing all of the law before writing out the damn answer. Will also review notes every day as well. I'm thinking my hours will be close to 8am to 8pm.

I also have literally wallpapered my bedroom with charts and things I'll read EVERY SINGLE DAY before I go to bed and when I wake up because I'm so paranoid.

Kinda nervous about the secured transactions & commercial paper & corporations lectures - haven't watched any of them and they could be potential essay topics so I'm trying not to freak out as those are not my best areas.

& 1 last thing - I switched to Flex Study because Themis' schedule was beyond ridiculous and I seem to be doing better disregarding their suggestions.

The MA bar is basically 50/50 so I'm trying to pull for the best on both fronts; I don't care how "easy" people claim it is. All I know is this is a lot of damn information and I REFUSE to take the MBE with civil procedure on it in February.

[numbertwo88]

Why are the Property and Contracts MBEs 50x longer than Evidence questions, on average? Is this just Themis or is it representative of the actual exam? It makes those 34-question sections so painful....

This is a huge pain in my ass. I want to scream every single time I see 1 of those long questions

[kapital98]

@numbertwo88: I think most of us are feeling the way you feel. There are three weeks left and everything is going to hell

At this point I feel like I know nothing. I'm lost and not sure how I'm going to do this. But, somehow, it will all work out!

[colonial108]

@numbertwo88: I think most of us are feeling the way you feel. There are three weeks left and everything is going to hell

At this point I feel like I know nothing. I'm lost and not sure how I'm going to do this. But, somehow, it will all work out!

I was right where you are six months ago. I passed with no problem. Hang tough, you will be alright. It's rough trying to remember everything but it comes into focus when you are taking the exam.

[Genuine4ps]

Are any of you taking one day off each week? I haven't, because Themis won't let me, but I was concerned that this is a recipe for disaster. I heard the other prep companies provide one day off a week.

[northwood]

Are any of you taking one day off each week? I haven't, because Themis won't let me, but I was concerned that this is a recipe for disaster. I heard the other prep companies provide one day off a week.

I don't, and im only going to take a half day on the 4th.. I may not do a full day, but I always try to do at least 2-3 hours per day

[Bigbub75]

Are any of you taking one day off each week? I haven't, because Themis won't let me, but I was concerned that this is a recipe for disaster. I heard the other prep companies provide one day off a week.

At least 1 day a week. But then again I am pretty sure I've ran out of fucks to give, so theres that.

I've also abandoned directed study. Every night I make a list of what I want/need to cover the next day and pretty much use that as my guide. Still turns out to be about 8-10 hrs worth of work.

[kapital98]

Are any of you taking one day off each week? I haven't, because Themis won't let me, but I was concerned that this is a recipe for disaster. I heard the other prep companies provide one day off a week.

I always take Sunday off and usually do half a day on Saturday. Sometimes I take Saturday off too if I really don't feel like it.

[Genuine4ps]

Are any of you taking one day off each week? I haven't, because Themis won't let me, but I was concerned that this is a recipe for disaster. I heard the other prep companies provide one day off a week.

At least 1 day a week. But then again I am pretty sure I've ran out of fucks to give, so theres that.

I've also abandoned directed study. Every night I make a list of what I want/need to cover the next day and pretty much use that as my guide. Still turns out to be about 8-10 hrs worth of work.

I think this is a good plan. I haven't been taking a day off, but I've only been doing about 7 hours per day. I'm thinking of adopting that schedule so I can at least take a day off.

[bedefan]

Are any of you taking one day off each week? I haven't, because Themis won't let me, but I was concerned that this is a recipe for disaster. I heard the other prep companies provide one day off a week.

Due to some health problems I've taken 2-4 days off each week since the beginning. I've just been focusing on the MBE subjects. The good news is I'm now getting ~75% on all my PQ sets... The bad news is I now have to learn ALL of the essay subjects. ... while continuing to review the MBE subjects so I don't forget everything I just learned.

That said, I think I'll still try to take one day a week off. Partly from necessity, partly because I'm getting the feeling the Illinois bar is kind of hard to screw up if you're good at taking tests.