Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[colonial108]

I was around 58-62% on contracts and I think like 63% on property when I finished the course. All of the others I was between 67-71%. The thing is to get through all of the MBE questions and read the explanations. I spent the VAST majority of my bar exam study time doing that. I didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones (I only read the questions and model answers for all the other ones). The practice MBE questions from Themis will get you prepared for the real thing. I know mortgages suck, but almost every mortgage question revolves around who has priority to some claim. Just make sure you have a good grip on that and you will survive most of the mortgage questions. I struggled for a long time with contracts, too, but it all came together by the end of the course.

Hang in there, you will all survive. Trust me, if I can do it, any of you can.

[Genuine4ps]

I was around 58-62% on contracts and I think like 63% on property when I finished the course. All of the others I was between 67-71%. The thing is to get through all of the MBE questions and read the explanations. I spent the VAST majority of my bar exam study time doing that. I didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones (I only read the questions and model answers for all the other ones). The practice MBE questions from Themis will get you prepared for the real thing. I know mortgages suck, but almost every mortgage question revolves around who has priority to some claim. Just make sure you have a good grip on that and you will survive most of the mortgage questions. I struggled for a long time with contracts, too, but it all came together by the end of the course.

Hang in there, you will all survive. Trust me, if I can do it, any of you can.

Thanks! So it sounds like the Themis MBE practice questions are pretty similar to the real thing?

[colonial108]

I was around 58-62% on contracts and I think like 63% on property when I finished the course. All of the others I was between 67-71%. The thing is to get through all of the MBE questions and read the explanations. I spent the VAST majority of my bar exam study time doing that. I didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones (I only read the questions and model answers for all the other ones). The practice MBE questions from Themis will get you prepared for the real thing. I know mortgages suck, but almost every mortgage question revolves around who has priority to some claim. Just make sure you have a good grip on that and you will survive most of the mortgage questions. I struggled for a long time with contracts, too, but it all came together by the end of the course.

Hang in there, you will all survive. Trust me, if I can do it, any of you can.

Thanks! So it sounds like the Themis MBE practice questions are pretty similar to the real thing?

I found them to be. There were only a handful of questions on the real thing that were completely out in left field (and I am sure that most of those were the ungraded questions), and almost every time I started reading a fact pattern I realized what type of question it was based on the Themis questions. You can almost always get it down to two answers right away. Once you do, pick one and move on. Do not agonize over an answer, you don't have the time.

One piece of advice I can give for the essays is not to panic. Obviously you are being completely overloaded with information right now. It's ridiculous. However, when you get to the essays (I took the UBE, by the way) you only have to know something about the question staring at you. They can't test everything. Once you start reading the essay question, you will kind of "lock in" to that body of law and things will come back to you. It's really weird how that works. I remember when they were passing out the tests and I was like "oh, christ, I can't remember anything right now" but when I started reading the questions it was like "oh, a discovery essay, I can handle this." (however, I couldn't have told you shit about discovery 10 minutes earlier). Make sense?

[Lasers]

I was around 58-62% on contracts and I think like 63% on property when I finished the course. All of the others I was between 67-71%. The thing is to get through all of the MBE questions and read the explanations. I spent the VAST majority of my bar exam study time doing that. I didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones (I only read the questions and model answers for all the other ones). The practice MBE questions from Themis will get you prepared for the real thing. I know mortgages suck, but almost every mortgage question revolves around who has priority to some claim. Just make sure you have a good grip on that and you will survive most of the mortgage questions. I struggled for a long time with contracts, too, but it all came together by the end of the course.

Hang in there, you will all survive. Trust me, if I can do it, any of you can.

i'm interested in the fact that you didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones. i'm pretty much doing that, too. i've just been studying the model answers, which i find to be useful, but i'm not really trying to write anything out.

is that a risky proposition?

[bport hopeful]

(Question ID#4245)
An employee was up for a promotion but was passed over by his boss for a female colleague with more experience. After learning he had not received the promotion, he became angry with his boss and convinced himself that the colleague and the boss, who was married, were involved in a relationship. He therefore contacted the boss’s wife and convinced her to shoot the boss. They stated that they would not harm the colleague, as it might make their involvement too obvious. The employee provided her with a gun. The next day, the boss’s wife approached the colleague and the boss in their office parking lot. The wife, who was not an experienced shooter, shot the colleague in the arm, and then panicked and ran off. An onlooker rushed the colleague to the hospital. Although the injury was not life threatening, she contracted an infection during surgery and died the following week. A later investigation revealed that the infection was a result of medical malpractice that occurred during the surgery. The crime was eventually traced back to the employee and the boss’s wife, and they were both charged in connection with the colleague’s death.
The employee is most likely to be convicted of which of the following crimes?
A. Murder, attempted murder, and conspiracy to commit murder.
B. Murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation.
C. Attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.
D. Murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.

Right choice is A and B is wrong because it ignores the attempted murder of the boss, but doesnt A ignore solicitation?

Does it merge?

[blue920]

(Question ID#4245)
An employee was up for a promotion but was passed over by his boss for a female colleague with more experience. After learning he had not received the promotion, he became angry with his boss and convinced himself that the colleague and the boss, who was married, were involved in a relationship. He therefore contacted the boss’s wife and convinced her to shoot the boss. They stated that they would not harm the colleague, as it might make their involvement too obvious. The employee provided her with a gun. The next day, the boss’s wife approached the colleague and the boss in their office parking lot. The wife, who was not an experienced shooter, shot the colleague in the arm, and then panicked and ran off. An onlooker rushed the colleague to the hospital. Although the injury was not life threatening, she contracted an infection during surgery and died the following week. A later investigation revealed that the infection was a result of medical malpractice that occurred during the surgery. The crime was eventually traced back to the employee and the boss’s wife, and they were both charged in connection with the colleague’s death.
The employee is most likely to be convicted of which of the following crimes?
A. Murder, attempted murder, and conspiracy to commit murder.
B. Murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation.
C. Attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.
D. Murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.

Right choice is A and B is wrong because it ignores the attempted murder of the boss, but doesnt A ignore solicitation?

Does it merge?

It merges. It's stated in the outline under inchoate crimes - "solicitation and attempt are said to 'merge' into the completed crime."

[j1987]

It merges. Though not explicitly stated in the outline, I did some googling and a solicitation of a person to commit a crime merges with the completed crime. A person cannot be convicted of both solicitation to commit a specific crime and the completed crime.

^^^. Remember though that it does NOT merge in New York unless incidental to the commission of the crime solicited.

[bport hopeful]

(Question ID#4245)
An employee was up for a promotion but was passed over by his boss for a female colleague with more experience. After learning he had not received the promotion, he became angry with his boss and convinced himself that the colleague and the boss, who was married, were involved in a relationship. He therefore contacted the boss’s wife and convinced her to shoot the boss. They stated that they would not harm the colleague, as it might make their involvement too obvious. The employee provided her with a gun. The next day, the boss’s wife approached the colleague and the boss in their office parking lot. The wife, who was not an experienced shooter, shot the colleague in the arm, and then panicked and ran off. An onlooker rushed the colleague to the hospital. Although the injury was not life threatening, she contracted an infection during surgery and died the following week. A later investigation revealed that the infection was a result of medical malpractice that occurred during the surgery. The crime was eventually traced back to the employee and the boss’s wife, and they were both charged in connection with the colleague’s death.
The employee is most likely to be convicted of which of the following crimes?
A. Murder, attempted murder, and conspiracy to commit murder.
B. Murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation.
C. Attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.
D. Murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.

Right choice is A and B is wrong because it ignores the attempted murder of the boss, but doesnt A ignore solicitation?

Does it merge?

It merges. It's stated in the outline under inchoate crimes - "solicitation and attempt are said to 'merge' into the completed crime."

Here, the attempt and the actual murder dont actually merge because the completed crime was on the husband and the attempt was on the colleague. If they were against the same person they would.

My question is do solicitation and attempt merge, rather than do the inchoate crimes merge with the completed crime. It seems like they have satisfied both solicitation and attempt.

[Genuine4ps]

I was around 58-62% on contracts and I think like 63% on property when I finished the course. All of the others I was between 67-71%. The thing is to get through all of the MBE questions and read the explanations. I spent the VAST majority of my bar exam study time doing that. I didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones (I only read the questions and model answers for all the other ones). The practice MBE questions from Themis will get you prepared for the real thing. I know mortgages suck, but almost every mortgage question revolves around who has priority to some claim. Just make sure you have a good grip on that and you will survive most of the mortgage questions. I struggled for a long time with contracts, too, but it all came together by the end of the course.

Hang in there, you will all survive. Trust me, if I can do it, any of you can.

i'm interested in the fact that you didn't do any practice essays except for the graded ones. i'm pretty much doing that, too. i've just been studying the model answers, which i find to be useful, but i'm not really trying to write anything out.

is that a risky proposition?

I'm doing the same as well. I'm a little concerned too, but the essays just seem excessive. I could understand if they maybe had us do one essay for every two subjects so that we can get a feel for them. At this point, I feel like I know how write them and it's just a matter of actually knowing the rules.

[blue920]

My question is do solicitation and attempt merge, rather than do the inchoate crimes merge with the completed crime. It seems like they have satisfied both solicitation and attempt.

Solicitation merges with attempt, conspiracy, and the target offense. There's a good explanation here: http://all4jds.com/FORUMS/aft/11686.

[bport hopeful]

My question is do solicitation and attempt merge, rather than do the inchoate crimes merge with the completed crime. It seems like they have satisfied both solicitation and attempt.

Solicitation merges with attempt, conspiracy, and the target offense. There's a good explanation here: http://all4jds.com/FORUMS/aft/11686.

Ok, so generally speaking, you'll not have both solicitation and the others. Unless they are in regards to different actions. Thank you.

[puttycake]

For me, doing practice essays has three advantages:

1. It forces me to actually do the work

2. It doesn't allow me to say, "Oh, I knew that. I would have gotten that right."

3. It gives me a concrete way to drill writing the answers out. I have an entire outline for evidence I can basically write out without even knowing the question.

People who are more disciplined and more honest with themselves than I am probably don't need to do any essays at all.

[kapital98]

For me, doing practice essays has three advantages:

1. It forces me to actually do the work

2. It doesn't allow me to say, "Oh, I knew that. I would have gotten that right."

3. It gives me a concrete way to drill writing the answers out. I have an entire outline for evidence I can basically write out without even knowing the question.

People who are more disciplined and more honest with themselves than I am probably don't need to do any essays at all.

Same here.

[kapital98]

The Advanced Sales lectures were pointless. About 80% of it was covered in the general Contracts lectures. It would have made more sense if they had just added an extra 20 minutes into those lectures about more specific UCC issues.

[northwood]

(Question ID#4245)
An employee was up for a promotion but was passed over by his boss for a female colleague with more experience. After learning he had not received the promotion, he became angry with his boss and convinced himself that the colleague and the boss, who was married, were involved in a relationship. He therefore contacted the boss’s wife and convinced her to shoot the boss. They stated that they would not harm the colleague, as it might make their involvement too obvious. The employee provided her with a gun. The next day, the boss’s wife approached the colleague and the boss in their office parking lot. The wife, who was not an experienced shooter, shot the colleague in the arm, and then panicked and ran off. An onlooker rushed the colleague to the hospital. Although the injury was not life threatening, she contracted an infection during surgery and died the following week. A later investigation revealed that the infection was a result of medical malpractice that occurred during the surgery. The crime was eventually traced back to the employee and the boss’s wife, and they were both charged in connection with the colleague’s death.
The employee is most likely to be convicted of which of the following crimes?
A. Murder, attempted murder, and conspiracy to commit murder.
B. Murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation.
C. Attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.
D. Murder and conspiracy to commit murder only.

Right choice is A and B is wrong because it ignores the attempted murder of the boss, but doesnt A ignore solicitation?

Does it merge?

inchoate crimes ( solicitation and attempt- but not conspiracy) merge into the crime when the crime is carried out. Solicitation is the proposition to another to commit a criminal offense with the specific intent that the other person commits the crime. It is a crime as soon as the person asks ( offers) the other person to do it. the crime of solicitation can be punished only if teh offer is refused. If the offer is acepted, solication merges with the crime of conspiracy which the agreement between to or more persons in the intent to commit the crime. Here the college solicitated the wife to shot her husband when she agreed, a conspairacy is formed IN addition, to have a conspiracy, a substantial step must be undertaken in furtherance of the criminal act. When wife and co worker brought the gun to the parking lot, a substantial step was undertaken and the crime of conspiracy has been committed. the wife intended to shoot and kil her husband, and when she shot at him, she mistakenly shot the co-worker with the promotion. CO worker later died from the injury she received because it got infected at the hospital ( but for not getting shot, she would not have gotten the infection- the dotors negligence is a foreseeable event in bullet wounds that is not too remote to break the foreseeability chain and be a superseding cause. Her intent to kill her husband was transferred to the promoted co worker. Thus Choice A is correct... because it properly lists all of the crimes that could be charged against wife and overlooked ( now former) employee

[bport hopeful]

It is a crime as soon as the person asks ( offers) the other person to do it. the crime of solicitation can be punished only if teh offer is refused. If the offer is acepted, solication merges with the crime of conspiracy which the agreement between to or more persons in the intent to commit the crime.

This is what I did not know/understand. Thank you. Helpful as always.

[Bigbub75]

Hate the MBE Evidence lecturer with every fiber of my being. He really sucks. Or maybe I have just reached the point of bar study where I am easily irritated.

[northwood]

Hate the MBE Evidence lecturer with every fiber of my being. He really sucks. Or maybe I have just reached the point of bar study where I am easily irritated.

im at the point where I just want to say fuck this fuck that fuck it all its summer time, ill study for the bar during the winter months


but then I realize 3 very important things
1) winter is NFL....
2) feb bar has fed rules civil procedure and admin law ( NY)
3) that whole repayment thing


still... but for 1 or maybe 2- im pretty close to saying fuck it all

[Genuine4ps]

Hate the MBE Evidence lecturer with every fiber of my being. He really sucks. Or maybe I have just reached the point of bar study where I am easily irritated.

Seems really nice to me.

[Genuine4ps]

Hate the MBE Evidence lecturer with every fiber of my being. He really sucks. Or maybe I have just reached the point of bar study where I am easily irritated.

im at the point where I just want to say fuck this fuck that fuck it all its summer time, ill study for the bar during the winter months


but then I realize 3 very important things
1) winter is NFL....
2) feb bar has fed rules civil procedure and admin law ( NY)
3) that whole repayment thing


still... but for 1 or maybe 2- im pretty close to saying fuck it all

Seriously?

[northwood]

Hate the MBE Evidence lecturer with every fiber of my being. He really sucks. Or maybe I have just reached the point of bar study where I am easily irritated.

im at the point where I just want to say fuck this fuck that fuck it all its summer time, ill study for the bar during the winter months


but then I realize 3 very important things
1) winter is NFL....
2) feb bar has fed rules civil procedure and admin law ( NY)
3) that whole repayment thing


still... but for 1 or maybe 2- im pretty close to saying fuck it all

Seriously?

for today only ( and maybe tomorrow morning)

[Genuine4ps]

Crim Law/Crim Pro professor has had one hell of a career.

[TooManyLoans]

Crim Law/Crim Pro professor has had one hell of a career.

For most of the subjects, at some point in the lectures, I would google the lecturer just for the hell of it. She is the only one I didn't look up because she lets you know all the cases she's worked on.

[Gotti]

Anyone taking the NJ bar - what were your thoughts on the scores/comments for the 3rd graded essay (which was the first NJ graded essay I had to do)? I got a 4/6 total (Structure: 4/6; Legal Knowledge: 3/6; Analysis: 4/6) - but my grader said the essay I had was "excellent" and maybe had one or two very minor substantive comments. Are they just grading harshly??

[Tanicius]

Anyone taking the NJ bar - what were your thoughts on the scores/comments for the 3rd graded essay (which was the first NJ graded essay I had to do)? I got a 4/6 total (Structure: 4/6; Legal Knowledge: 3/6; Analysis: 4/6) - but my grader said the essay I had was "excellent" and maybe had one or two very minor substantive comments. Are they just grading harshly??

Yes.