Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[Nelson]

Can someone explain?

[+] Spoiler

Person indicted by state grand jury. Person tried and convicted. Person tried to reverse conviction on grounds that members of one racial group were deliberately excluded from the grand jury. Appellate court found the exclusion was harmless error. Should appellate court reverse?.

I chose: No, because the contractor lacks standing to challenge the exclusion of members of another race from the grand jury that indicted him.
Correct answer: Yes, because the members' of the excluded racial group rights under the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment were violated.


The reasoning basically just restates the correct answer, so I don't really get why that is the right answer. A bunch of other procedural protections do not apply in grand juries (counsel, confrontation, present witnesses, evidence, and so on) so I don't see why excluding members from one race mattered to the conviction since the person was subsequently convicted by a jury where I presume jurors were not deliberately excluded on the basis of race.

I've found it helpful in the con law especially to focus on eliminating all of wrong answers rather than choosing the right one. A defendant always has standing to challenge the intentional exclusion of jurors based on race (or a racially imbalanced venire). A lot of the con law questions seem to involve "least bad" answers.

[gr8scOtt!]

Thanks guys.

[NonJuris]

[deleted]

[collegewriter]

Can anyone advise on how to improve Crim Pro? Ironically (I did well in it in law school and loved the class) I am doing terribly on the MBE questions for criminal procedure. Like 30-40%. Most of my others MBE subjects are around 65%. I'm always between two answers on the Crim Pro stuff and I'm really struggling.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

[Tripl3Espresso]

Can anyone advise on how to improve Crim Pro? Ironically (I did well in it in law school and loved the class) I am doing terribly on the MBE questions for criminal procedure. Like 30-40%. Most of my others MBE subjects are around 65%. I'm always between two answers on the Crim Pro stuff and I'm really struggling.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Have your looked at the breakdown of all your Crim Pro questions to see where your weakness is? I was having issues with Contracts (remedies) and Evidence (Character and Impeachment), and then read the long outline on those areas and my scores went from about 50% to the 70's.

[yngblkgifted]

Best Evidence Rule is rarely the right answer, except every time it comes up in Themis PQs apparently. Thanks Lisa!

[GULCPerson]

Apparently I am insanely bad at civ pro, because I am getting these questions wrong even with the FRCP open in front of me. Venue question that I'd appreciate any explanation on.

[+] Spoiler

A plaintiff filed a complaint against a defendant in federal district court in State A, the state where the plaintiff was domiciled. The claims, which were based solely on state law, related to a car accident that occurred between the parties in State B, a neighboring state. The complaint alleged $100,000 in damages. The defendant was domiciled in State B but frequently did business in State A. Three months after the complaint was filed, a process server served the defendant with a copy of the summons and complaint while the defendant was passing through State A to attend a hearing on an unrelated legal matter in State C, which borders State A.

Themis states that there's proper venue here, but I don't see why.
The answer says "In general, venue is proper where any defendant resides if all defendants reside in the state where the district is located, in the district where the events leading to the complaint occurred, or where the property that forms the subject of the complaint is located. If none of those options are possible, venue is also proper in a district where the court can property exercise personal jurisdiction over a defendant. In this case, the defendant resided in the neighboring state, and the events that were the subject of the suit occurred in the neighboring state. Even so, venue would be proper in the forum state had the court properly exercised personal jurisdiction over the defendant."

Isn't that last category, venue wherever there's only Personal Jurisdiction, a sort of last resort? So shouldn't that not apply since venue would have been proper in State B? Clearly I'm misunderstanding the venue rule badly, can anyone clarify?

[zot1]

Apparently I am insanely bad at civ pro, because I am getting these questions wrong even with the FRCP open in front of me. Venue question that I'd appreciate any explanation on.

[+] Spoiler

A plaintiff filed a complaint against a defendant in federal district court in State A, the state where the plaintiff was domiciled. The claims, which were based solely on state law, related to a car accident that occurred between the parties in State B, a neighboring state. The complaint alleged $100,000 in damages. The defendant was domiciled in State B but frequently did business in State A. Three months after the complaint was filed, a process server served the defendant with a copy of the summons and complaint while the defendant was passing through State A to attend a hearing on an unrelated legal matter in State C, which borders State A.

Themis states that there's proper venue here, but I don't see why.
The answer says "In general, venue is proper where any defendant resides if all defendants reside in the state where the district is located, in the district where the events leading to the complaint occurred, or where the property that forms the subject of the complaint is located. If none of those options are possible, venue is also proper in a district where the court can property exercise personal jurisdiction over a defendant. In this case, the defendant resided in the neighboring state, and the events that were the subject of the suit occurred in the neighboring state. Even so, venue would be proper in the forum state had the court properly exercised personal jurisdiction over the defendant."

Isn't that last category, venue wherever there's only Personal Jurisdiction, a sort of last resort? So shouldn't that not apply since venue would have been proper in State B? Clearly I'm misunderstanding the venue rule badly, can anyone clarify?

So venue is proper here because defendant often did business in state A, so it would be fair to hold him to a suit there. However, this does not mean that this is the most convenient venue; it's not. The point is that venue here is valid even though it's not the most convenient. In this case defendant could ask for a transfer and he would likely get it.

I hope that helps.

[VicariouslySuperior]

Am I the only one really disappointed with Themis?

1. The lack of MBE questions available on the smartphone or Ipad app really sucks (especially compared to Barbri and Kaplan's apps which my peers have shown me). It would be nice to run through MBE questions during downtime when I am not in front of my computer.

2. I honestly believe the individual who is providing feedback on my essays is no more qualified than any other individual that attended law school. Her generalized feedback is not helpful. I have come to the conclusion unless your answer perfectly mirrors the Themis model answer, it will not get a better than average score. Comments such as "More analysis is needed" is not helpful even a little bit - obviously I would give more analysis if I had any time left to do so.

3. The MBE questions do not appear to be a realistic mix of actual MBE questions. I have had an insane amount of questions regarding spotting a wild animal or questions regarding auctions. I would fall over in my chair on the actual exam if there are more than 1 of these two types of questions on the actual bar.

4. The percentage allocated to assignments is impossible to discover. I can spend 30 minutes doing a 17 problem PQ and get .5% or do a three hour California Performance Test and get .1%. I have given up on the daily percentages.

5. The MBE workshop lectures couldn't be more pointless. They are essentially a review of 4 easy MBE questions with 1 hard MBE question thrown in there. The advice given in these workshops isn't really advice: "Best Evidence is NEVER a correct answer; except when it is a correct answer." Further, it doesn't help anything when the MBE workshop questions show up on the PQs.

Maybe I am just blowing off bar study frustration but thus far I am completely unimpressed with Themis.

[kateebee]

Am I the only one really disappointed with Themis?

1. The lack of MBE questions available on the smartphone or Ipad app really sucks (especially compared to Barbri and Kaplan's apps which my peers have shown me). It would be nice to run through MBE questions during downtime when I am not in front of my computer.

2. I honestly believe the individual who is providing feedback on my essays is no more qualified than any other individual that attended law school. Her generalized feedback is not helpful. I have come to the conclusion unless your answer perfectly mirrors the Themis model answer, it will not get a better than average score. Comments such as "More analysis is needed" is not helpful even a little bit - obviously I would give more analysis if I had any time left to do so.

3. The MBE questions do not appear to be a realistic mix of actual MBE questions. I have had an insane amount of questions regarding spotting a wild animal or questions regarding auctions. I would fall over in my chair on the actual exam if there are more than 1 of these two types of questions on the actual bar.

4. The percentage allocated to assignments is impossible to discover. I can spend 30 minutes doing a 17 problem PQ and get .5% or do a three hour California Performance Test and get .1%. I have given up on the daily percentages.

5. The MBE workshop lectures couldn't be more pointless. They are essentially a review of 4 easy MBE questions with 1 hard MBE question thrown in there. The advice given in these workshops isn't really advice: "Best Evidence is NEVER a correct answer; except when it is a correct answer." Further, it doesn't help anything when the MBE workshop questions show up on the PQs.

Maybe I am just blowing off bar study frustration but thus far I am completely unimpressed with Themis.

Yes. Exactly all of this. Except I would add to 1. that it is frustrating you can only watch videos at 1x on the app, and 6. I would have liked the handouts in print. You already sent me literally 15 lbs of books. Why not the extra one that I will actually use??

[kjartan]

I think Themis might just be straight up wrong about the answers to some of the Civ Pro MBE questions.

[anon sequitur]

For what it's worth, I also have used adaptibar a little bit, their user interface is superior by far, but their explanations are significantly worse.

I'm not super impressed with Themis, for the reasons listed, but overall I think it's a decent deal, especially compared to Barbri and Kaplan which have their own problems. I knew in advance the graded essay feedback would be garbage, I know Kaplan has the same issues. They really could make the whole program a lot better fairly cheaply with a better website.

[Raiden]

Am I the only one really disappointed with Themis?

1. The lack of MBE questions available on the smartphone or Ipad app really sucks (especially compared to Barbri and Kaplan's apps which my peers have shown me). It would be nice to run through MBE questions during downtime when I am not in front of my computer.

2. I honestly believe the individual who is providing feedback on my essays is no more qualified than any other individual that attended law school. Her generalized feedback is not helpful. I have come to the conclusion unless your answer perfectly mirrors the Themis model answer, it will not get a better than average score. Comments such as "More analysis is needed" is not helpful even a little bit - obviously I would give more analysis if I had any time left to do so.

3. The MBE questions do not appear to be a realistic mix of actual MBE questions. I have had an insane amount of questions regarding spotting a wild animal or questions regarding auctions. I would fall over in my chair on the actual exam if there are more than 1 of these two types of questions on the actual bar.

4. The percentage allocated to assignments is impossible to discover. I can spend 30 minutes doing a 17 problem PQ and get .5% or do a three hour California Performance Test and get .1%. I have given up on the daily percentages.

5. The MBE workshop lectures couldn't be more pointless. They are essentially a review of 4 easy MBE questions with 1 hard MBE question thrown in there. The advice given in these workshops isn't really advice: "Best Evidence is NEVER a correct answer; except when it is a correct answer." Further, it doesn't help anything when the MBE workshop questions show up on the PQs.

Maybe I am just blowing off bar study frustration but thus far I am completely unimpressed with Themis.

Yes. Exactly all of this. Except I would add to 1. that it is frustrating you can only watch videos at 1x on the app, and 6. I would have liked the handouts in print. You already sent me literally 15 lbs of books. Why not the extra one that I will actually use??

Seriously, the amount of questions about auctions. Makes me want to specialize in auction law.

[always_raining]

Seriously, the amount of questions about auctions. Makes me want to specialize in auction law.

I asked someone doing Barbri if they had a million questions on auctions and they had zero idea what I was talking about.

[Velours]

6. I would have liked the handouts in print. You already sent me literally 15 lbs of books. Why not the extra one that I will actually use??

This would have been wonderful! I have been filling them out in the pdf but it would be nice to not have to print them if I wanted to review the handout while not at a computer.

[sd5289]

For what it's worth, I also have used adaptibar a little bit, their user interface is superior by far, but their explanations are significantly worse.

That's good to know in advance. I would say the answer explanations have been the most helpful part of themis, by far.

And agreed with everyone on the lecture handouts. I've had to print them out because I just can't concentrate on the PDF version, and I remain more by handwriting.

[somuchbooty]

I know I'm embarrassingly behind, but a Milestone 1 of 68 is good, right?

[BearLaw]

I know I'm embarrassingly behind, but a Milestone 1 of 68 is good, right?

Nothing wrong with that at all friend. I think the average was like 59. A 68% on test day gets you a pass in pretty much any jurisdiction as far as I know, and there is still a month until the test.

[MrMustache]

I know I'm embarrassingly behind, but a Milestone 1 of 68 is good, right?

Not bad at all. I got a 57 on Milestone #1. Which was below average

[UnamSanctam]

I know I'm embarrassingly behind, but a Milestone 1 of 68 is good, right?

Score brother.Beware, I got railed by the next few topics.

[somuchbooty]

I know I'm embarrassingly behind, but a Milestone 1 of 68 is good, right?

Score brother.Beware, I got railed by the next few topics.

thanks all, yeah i am worried because constitutional law still confuses me and i hated crim law so I needed a pick me up to prepare me for the next few weeks.

[MrMustache]

When the majority of people are picking the the same wrong answer on a Civ Pro MBE question, there's either something wrong with the question or with the teacher. Get your shit together, Themis.

[kjartan]

Explanation to MBE Question says: "Answer choice B is incorrect because an expert does not need to reach a particular level of scientific certainty in order for his testimony to be admissible."

Themis lecture outline says: "Experts must also possess a reasonable degree of certainty in their opinion."



And naturally...

The foregoing NCBE MBE question has been modified to reflect current NCBE stylistic approaches; the NCBE has not reviewed or endorsed this modification.

[lost in translation]

Hi folks

Lurking for a while. Foreign student here trying desperately to catch up to your curve;) Feeling alone (hence posting on a Sunday instead of studying). While I am really excited and feel privileged to be able to go to the US to sit this test (never been before!), I also feel I'm on the brink of madness.

Anyway I wanted to share this amazing hearsay lecture on you tube. I know you all have so much at stake and the lectures weren't terribly helpful (to me anyway). It's a well spent hour (if you don't get hearsay). Don't let the guitar at the beginning put you off. This guy should have taught the whole MBE. I think I love him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNeFsjTfs2s

May I ask you guys for any advice:

1. re NY materials - I'm watching/reading family, wills, NY prac, Corps, and just going to read the rest. Did you find it worthwhile watchig all the lectures? It's been a bit hit and miss so far.

2. PRACTICAL tactics for handwriting an MPT (or just practical tactics for outlining an answer effectively, full stop?) I watched the lectures - seems like a clever guy - but freaked out because by the time I would have finished crafting his structure (and I just got confused honestly by the handout) I would run out of time to write the thing - would seem to be very difficult even with a computer. Anyway, now I have a big ole case of MPT analysis - paralysis and I panic when I try to start one.

ps - I am finding a lot of comfort in this board, so thanks to all

Cheers peeps

[colonial108]

Hi everyone,

I rarely ever post, but check this forum from time to time. I did Themis a couple years ago. For the record, I was in a UBE state (so I can't speak for those who have state specific subjects). Needless to say, if you are scoring 60-67% on your MBE practice then you will be just fine for the bar exam. I think the highest I had was maybe 68% on any topic and I passed easily. I did all of the MBE multiple choice questions Themis offered. Didn't mess much with the practice essays, nor MPT'S. That's just me, though.

This post is more to tell you it will be ok, and you'll do fine. I know it seems like there's entirely too much information to retain, but when you are actually taking the exam it will be clear to you. If you see a question you just don't know, skip it and carry on. It averages out, so don't sweat it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.