THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION Forum

[midtrains]

I have gotten to the point where I get to an easy question and I am totally overthinking everything, be it MBE or MEE.
I got hit with an MEE question that basically asked "how do you get evidence from a witness in a civil case" and I panicked, went blank, then started thinking in circles. The same answer was basically "you engage in discovery, which can be done with written and oral depositions." Holy crap I feel fried right now.

I just did a civ pro one with literally two questions: does the court have personal jx, and if it does, does it have subject matter jx. I assumed there was some kind of trick and spent too long looking for it. There was no trick.

[jcwest]

At least in NY, if you can hit median on the MBE, you only have to score in the ~19th percentile on the MEE/MPT portion (see: https://i.imgur.com/2qMuKgV.png).

That's 19th percentile in a group that includes 15-20% foreign/non-ABA law school grads and re-takers who will fail again. As long as you don't panic and have some idea what you're talking about, you will be fine.

I keep looking at that graph every day

I don't have a cute graph but my state is only 1% less pass rate w/ 75% completion on Themis than NY so lets hope for the best.

[markham1321]

Anyone else feeling like the Themis lectures for the MEE subjects, including the Ide-Don ones, covered not even close to enough of the stuff showing up on the practice essays...

[dlrkgml]

Anyone else feeling like the Themis lectures for the MEE subjects, including the Ide-Don ones, covered not even close to enough of the stuff showing up on the practice essays...

Yea, the lectures were pretty bare bones. But I think the MEE FROs covered most of them?

On another note, and sorry if this is a dumb question but how important is it to get to the right conclusion on the MEE?

I just did the MEEs for PT#2 (put them off for forever I know) and totally missed the larceny question's conclusion (among others ) even though I went through the correct analysis. Didn't occur to me that money = personal property. I'm generally fine with analysis but have noticed that I sometimes go the other way on conclusions, so that worries me.

[Tala29]

Is everyone studying all MEE subjects or just the ones recommending by JD advising?

It's just so much info.

It goes without saying that it's impossible to predict.

But I will say this: the gain derived from studying all subjects (even if it's an information overload) is greater than the gain derived from excluding some subjects in order to strengthen others.

Or in other words: the detriment that could flow from excluding subjects from study is greater than the detriment that could flow from moderately knowing all subjects. (If that makes sense!?)

This is because the MEE is about general competence and ability to bullshit/IRAC/issue spot/apply facts, etc, rather than about getting it exactly right. I bullshitted two essays on the Feb 2018 MEE and still did really well.

The fact is that it's much more scary to get a question/topic that you have never studied, than it is to get a subject you only know superficially. In the former case, you're kinda fucked. In the latter you're gonna pass.

Moreover, your ability to memorize is better than you think. You should be able to learn all subjects to an adequate degree in order to pass, without sacrificing.

On the other hand, if you're literally out of time, then by all means stick to the JD advising recommendations because they have a decent record.

I have been focusing on the ones they predicted will be one there.. It's not like I never looked at the others, but I honestly have barely focused on family law or CoL, but I am completely freaked out that I did that because like the answer to your question says, it's way worse if I actually know nothing if it comes up. I def do not have much time to devote to it now, but I think I will maybe spend 2-3 hours tomorrow reviewing family law and CoL w/o having really done any essays on it. I hope that will be enough.

I mean for the MEE subjects that are also MBE subjects I am just hoping I have enough knowledge to bullshit my way through w/o having done more than maybe 2 practice essays for contracts for example.

these essays just seem impossible. The sample answer of the actual last MEE's are insanely detailed.

[deacon]

Is everyone studying all MEE subjects or just the ones recommending by JD advising?

It's just so much info.

It goes without saying that it's impossible to predict.

But I will say this: the gain derived from studying all subjects (even if it's an information overload) is greater than the gain derived from excluding some subjects in order to strengthen others.

Or in other words: the detriment that could flow from excluding subjects from study is greater than the detriment that could flow from moderately knowing all subjects. (If that makes sense!?)

This is because the MEE is about general competence and ability to bullshit/IRAC/issue spot/apply facts, etc, rather than about getting it exactly right. I bullshitted two essays on the Feb 2018 MEE and still did really well.

The fact is that it's much more scary to get a question/topic that you have never studied, than it is to get a subject you only know superficially. In the former case, you're kinda fucked. In the latter you're gonna pass.

Moreover, your ability to memorize is better than you think. You should be able to learn all subjects to an adequate degree in order to pass, without sacrificing.

On the other hand, if you're literally out of time, then by all means stick to the JD advising recommendations because they have a decent record.

I have been focusing on the ones they predicted will be one there.. It's not like I never looked at the others, but I honestly have barely focused on family law or CoL, but I am completely freaked out that I did that because like the answer to your question says, it's way worse if I actually know nothing if it comes up. I def do not have much time to devote to it now, but I think I will maybe spend 2-3 hours tomorrow reviewing family law and CoL w/o having really done any essays on it. I hope that will be enough.

I mean for the MEE subjects that are also MBE subjects I am just hoping I have enough knowledge to bullshit my way through w/o having done more than maybe 2 practice essays for contracts for example.

these essays just seem impossible. The sample answer of the actual last MEE's are insanely detailed.

Well those answers are ones received the highest grades. I wish they also published the above passing somewhere in the middle essays

[Elastigirl14]

For the MEE, is memorizing the rule statements on the model essay answers enough for each topic? The outlines cover so much material for each topic. For example, in secured transactions, I just did the 6 essays and created an outline with all the concepts covered in those 6 essays and hope that will be enough if a secured transactions question is on the exam. What do you think of this approach? Is it too risky? Just focusing on the concepts on the model essay answers is more manageable.

[RickRawse]

You guys have been super-helpful but have also freaked me out with your scores. Thanks a lot, 80 percenters. I'm a foreign-educated LLM grad taking CA and I wake up every morning asking myself the same one-word question: why? Currently getting absolutely molested by Contracts because I had early access and watched the videos in March. Basically, I'd forgotten everything.
MBE scores vary wildly. Even though they are in the minority, the times I scored below 60% had me shook. Considered going home. I believe we'll be fine though. There's probably a good reason why 75 is the magic number. I've given up on memorizing everything in the essays. Going for a decent spread across board and making sure to avoid any of those predictions cuz that will definitely make me biased.

Also, yeah, non-CA examinees suck.

[MRSP]

For the MEE, is memorizing the rule statements on the model essay answers enough for each topic? The outlines cover so much material for each topic. For example, in secured transactions, I just did the 6 essays and created an outline with all the concepts covered in those 6 essays and hope that will be enough if a secured transactions question is on the exam. What do you think of this approach? Is it too risky? Just focusing on the concepts on the model essay answers is more manageable.

This is what I am doing since I am short on time (and should of went through more MEE study prior), I am going over the past model answers and bullet pointing/spotting as many issues as I can and summarizing the rules of the most highly tested issues and topics within a subject as well. I think it is wise since we are short on time at this point, but there may always be that obscure rule or issue that comes out to bite us so it is true we need basic awareness at least of as much as we can, while trying to really nail those highly tested ones. JD Advising has a good list of highly tested topics.

[fuuuuuuuuuu]

I can't speak for the UBE, but that's exactly what I did for Florida, and my essays are what carried me through to pass surprisingly.

For the MEE, is memorizing the rule statements on the model essay answers enough for each topic? The outlines cover so much material for each topic. For example, in secured transactions, I just did the 6 essays and created an outline with all the concepts covered in those 6 essays and hope that will be enough if a secured transactions question is on the exam. What do you think of this approach? Is it too risky? Just focusing on the concepts on the model essay answers is more manageable.

[jcwest]

For people who have been studying 10-12 hours a day the past 10 days and have been scoring over 70% on MBE PQs/PTs.

Are you guys slowing down these next couple days?

[2015_Splitter]

For people who have been studying 10-12 hours a day the past 10 days and have been scoring over 70% on MBE PQs/PTs.

Are you guys slowing down these next couple days?

I've slowed down since about Wednesday. Not out of choice, but I really don't know how much I can do from sheer exhaustion and boredom. So since Wednesday, I've done about 50 MBE PQ's, and then maybe read through one or two MEE Final Review Outlines. Tomorrow, I plan on looking through the answers of some old MPTs to see if there's any weird formats or anything, and I plan on doing nothing Monday.

[CBlaw]

For people who have been studying 10-12 hours a day the past 10 days and have been scoring over 70% on MBE PQs/PTs.

Are you guys slowing down these next couple days?

I started slowing down like 2 days ago. IMO being burned out/tired for an exam is way more detrimental to your score than not re reading essays or doing more MC after 1000's done. Just read other responses above this that say something along the lines of.."im so tired, and was doing questions and missed something really easy that I knew."

I have the same problem. I will miss the easiest questions if I am tired. I am going to be fully rested and ready for game day. Fight the stress that tells you that you need to study 12 hours a day leading up to the exam.

[gasfard]

totally bombed practice exam #4 I got 70%+ in the 100 question set a couple days ago and thought I was all set... now I'm back to doing more MBEs

[NotSkadden]

For people who have been studying 10-12 hours a day the past 10 days and have been scoring over 70% on MBE PQs/PTs.

Are you guys slowing down these next couple days?

Significantly. Today is my last day doing 10-12 hours. I need to review Corps and Secured. Tomorrow I'm going to travel to Bar location and casually listen to Ide-don on the drive.

I'll prob do 10-20 MBE questions each day just to stay fresh, but generally just relaxing.

[unsweetened]

On another note, and sorry if this is a dumb question but how important is it to get to the right conclusion on the MEE?

I came to the totally wrong conclusion for a Con Law essay, basically missed the boat on applying the standard of review and misstated the dormant commerce clause test. I still managed a 4/6 because my answer was organized (IRAC) and I used all the facts in the prompt. Based on that, I don't think coming to the right conclusion is essential to getting a passing score, although it undoubtedly helps.

[fuuuuuuuuuu]

Think that's normal. Sounds like the general consensus.

totally bombed practice exam #4 I got 70%+ in the 100 question set a couple days ago and thought I was all set... now I'm back to doing more MBEs

[NotSkadden]

Does anyone have a Completed/Filled Corporations Lecture Handout PDF they'd be willing to send me? I can't seem to find mine on my computer.

kylloriley@gmail.com

Thanks.

[sproutz]

For the MEE, is memorizing the rule statements on the model essay answers enough for each topic? The outlines cover so much material for each topic. For example, in secured transactions, I just did the 6 essays and created an outline with all the concepts covered in those 6 essays and hope that will be enough if a secured transactions question is on the exam. What do you think of this approach? Is it too risky? Just focusing on the concepts on the model essay answers is more manageable.

This is what I am doing since I am short on time (and should of went through more MEE study prior), I am going over the past model answers and bullet pointing/spotting as many issues as I can and summarizing the rules of the most highly tested issues and topics within a subject as well. I think it is wise since we are short on time at this point, but there may always be that obscure rule or issue that comes out to bite us so it is true we need basic awareness at least of as much as we can, while trying to really nail those highly tested ones. JD Advising has a good list of highly tested topics.

This is my basic essay memorization approach too, but I am also adding the lean sheets to my memorization, just to be safe and hit some of the little topics that weren't mentioned in the essays Themis gave us. Basically, each day this week I've worked through 2-3 essay topics and organized all of the rule statements from the practice essays into a document and then printed it out with that subject's lean sheet on the front. So, at the end of each day I end up with a little packet with 2-3 pages of lean sheet/super compressed high-level overview and 5-6 pages of full rule statements for the most common/likely rules, and I memorize from that. Then at the start of each day I just run through each packet that is already complete.

[Great45]

Any confirmation that Mixed Set 17 was the same across the board for everyone? Did well enough (I guess) on 17, but did 18 right after and COMPLETELY BLEW IT. I was thinking of just swearing off MBE questions until exam day, but I can't let that be my last performance ahead of the exam, can I? Yikes.

[MGH1989]

Any confirmation that Mixed Set 17 was the same across the board for everyone? Did well enough (I guess) on 17, but did 18 right after and COMPLETELY BLEW IT. I was thinking of just swearing off MBE questions until exam day, but I can't let that be my last performance ahead of the exam, can I? Yikes.

I haven't done 17, but I did 18 and I did really bad on it, like 56%. I'm averaging about mid 60's I would say on the mixed sets if that is any indication.

[MGH1989]

I was looking at Con law questions for my state and one of them was about basically redrawing school district lines in a city to have a more equal representation of races among the schools in the district. How would I answer a question like this? Can you apply racial gerrymandering rules to this, or would I just answer it like an affirmative action question and apply strict scrutiny?

[Great45]

Any confirmation that Mixed Set 17 was the same across the board for everyone? Did well enough (I guess) on 17, but did 18 right after and COMPLETELY BLEW IT. I was thinking of just swearing off MBE questions until exam day, but I can't let that be my last performance ahead of the exam, can I? Yikes.

I haven't done 17, but I did 18 and I did really bad on it, like 56%. I'm averaging about mid 60's I would say on the mixed sets if that is any indication.

Okay... I'm also in the mid 60's on my mixed sets. Got a 52% on set 18, easily my lowest score to date. Perhaps I'll just call it a tough set and keep moving forward. Maybe...

[jcwest]

Any confirmation that Mixed Set 17 was the same across the board for everyone? Did well enough (I guess) on 17, but did 18 right after and COMPLETELY BLEW IT. I was thinking of just swearing off MBE questions until exam day, but I can't let that be my last performance ahead of the exam, can I? Yikes.

I haven't done 17, but I did 18 and I did really bad on it, like 56%. I'm averaging about mid 60's I would say on the mixed sets if that is any indication.

Okay... I'm also in the mid 60's on my mixed sets. Got a 52% on set 18, easily my lowest score to date. Perhaps I'll just call it a tough set and keep moving forward. Maybe...

Thanks for the warning.

Not trying to shoot my confidence in the foot.

[dabigchina]

Any confirmation that Mixed Set 17 was the same across the board for everyone? Did well enough (I guess) on 17, but did 18 right after and COMPLETELY BLEW IT. I was thinking of just swearing off MBE questions until exam day, but I can't let that be my last performance ahead of the exam, can I? Yikes.

Guy didn't respond to me. Not really sure I understand why set 17 would randomly be the same across all learners when the other sets have been random.