Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[kapital98]

How necessary is Adaptibar or any other supplemental course? I ask because I used Themis' free course to study for the MPRE, and on test day it was obvious that the Themis prep questions were noticeably different from the NCBE's questions, yet I still passed.

Nobody knows. This is the hard truth. All anyone can offer are anecdotes and personal opinions about what they found useful and not useful.

Gotta keep reminding you guys though, 90% of the Themis folks pass, so they're clearly doing something right.

This type of reasoning is why I'm happy I picked Themis over Barbri. I can't imagine how alternative comprehensive bar prep programs can be any different and Themis is a fraction of the cost.

With that said, I'm not 100% happy with Themis and am eyeing some supplements (Adaptibar, Seperac, etc...). I got the PI discount for Themis and have some money to spare. I'll make my decision in the next couple weeks. If we get closer to the exam and my scores are not improving I will look for alternative programs.

[j1987]

Where are you guys getting that the Themis MC aren't actual past bar exam questions? I heard the opposite from a Themis rep. and someone who took Themis last year. She said that the Themis MCs were more similar to the actual bar questions she saw (for NY/NJ), and she heard a lot of complaints about how dissimilar Barbri's questions were to the actual bar exam. She passed NY and NJ, and she's now using Themis to take CA bar (she had to relocate).

[j1987]

How necessary is Adaptibar or any other supplemental course? I ask because I used Themis' free course to study for the MPRE, and on test day it was obvious that the Themis prep questions were noticeably different from the NCBE's questions, yet I still passed.

Nobody knows. This is the hard truth. All anyone can offer are anecdotes and personal opinions about what they found useful and not useful.

Gotta keep reminding you guys though, 90% of the Themis folks pass, so they're clearly doing something right.

This type of reasoning is why I'm happy I picked Themis over Barbri. I can't imagine how alternative comprehensive bar prep programs can be any different and Themis is a fraction of the cost.

With that said, I'm not 100% happy with Themis and am eyeing some supplements (Adaptibar, Seperac, etc...). I got the PI discount for Themis and have some money to spare. I'll make my decision in the next couple weeks. If we get closer to the exam and my scores are not improving I will look for alternative programs.

I picked Themis for its bar pass rates and because of positive word of mouth from past users. I couldn't justify paying next to $4k for Barbri when they don't release their bar pass rates, and their in-person course was just watching a DVD on a big screen projector in a classroom.

[Tanicius]

Where are you guys getting that the Themis MC aren't actual past bar exam questions? I heard the opposite from a Themis rep. and someone who took Themis last year. She said that the Themis MCs were more similar to the actual bar questions she saw (for NY/NJ), and she heard a lot of complaints about how dissimilar Barbri's questions were to the actual bar exam. She passed NY and NJ, and she's now using Themis to take CA bar (she had to relocate).

The NCBE has only released a few hundred actual questions, and most of the questions are 30+ years old. Everyone asks the same question about this every 5-10 pages in the thread, and that's about the only consensus that has developed.

[j1987]

How necessary is Adaptibar or any other supplemental course? I ask because I used Themis' free course to study for the MPRE, and on test day it was obvious that the Themis prep questions were noticeably different from the NCBE's questions, yet I still passed.

Nobody knows. This is the hard truth. All anyone can offer are anecdotes and personal opinions about what they found useful and not useful.

Gotta keep reminding you guys though, 90% of the Themis folks pass, so they're clearly doing something right.

This type of reasoning is why I'm happy I picked Themis over Barbri. I can't imagine how alternative comprehensive bar prep programs can be any different and Themis is a fraction of the cost.

With that said, I'm not 100% happy with Themis and am eyeing some supplements (Adaptibar, Seperac, etc...). I got the PI discount for Themis and have some money to spare. I'll make my decision in the next couple weeks. If we get closer to the exam and my scores are not improving I will look for alternative programs.

I picked Themis for its bar pass rates and because of positive word of mouth from past users. I couldn't justify paying next to $4k for Barbri when they don't release their bar pass rates, and their in-person course was just watching a DVD on a big screen projector in a classroom.

Plus, Themis has extremely high pass rates for my jurisdictions (NY/NJ).

[kapital98]

Where are you guys getting that the Themis MC aren't actual past bar exam questions? I heard the opposite from a Themis rep. and someone who took Themis last year. She said that the Themis MCs were more similar to the actual bar questions she saw (for NY/NJ), and she heard a lot of complaints about how dissimilar Barbri's questions were to the actual bar exam. She passed NY and NJ, and she's now using Themis to take CA bar (she had to relocate).

The NCBE has only released a few hundred actual questions, and most of the questions are 30+ years old. Everyone asks the same question about this every 5-10 pages in the thread, and that's about the only consensus that has developed.

I know this gets rehashed but here is another angle. Adaptibar says they have 1,530 licensed questions. I highly doubt these are the older questions that people have talked about being previously released. The ones that are easier than the modern questions. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems really unlikely.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

How necessary is Adaptibar or any other supplemental course? I ask because I used Themis' free course to study for the MPRE, and on test day it was obvious that the Themis prep questions were noticeably different from the NCBE's questions, yet I still passed.

Nobody knows. This is the hard truth. All anyone can offer are anecdotes and personal opinions about what they found useful and not useful.

Gotta keep reminding you guys though, 90% of the Themis folks pass, so they're clearly doing something right.

Thanks. Doubt/fear is starting to creep over me like a slow moving fog, but that's what I keep trying to tell myself. Even if Themis doesn't use NCBE questions, clearly what it does provide is enough to pass.

Adaptibar has a bank of 1,530 past NCBE MBE questions and 4 full length NCBE MBE Exams (from 2006, 2008, 2011 and 2013). What's different about Themis and Adaptibar is that when you miss a question on Themis, you just read the explanations (helpful!) but on adpatibar, you'll read the explanations and then they will adjust the questions so that you'll get quizzed on more of what you don't know (I think even more helpful!). For example, I was doing horribly on mortgages for foreverrrr and then I just got slammed with mortgage MBE questions on Adaptibar until I started getting them right. You can also check to see what areas (subtopics) you're not doing well in as they break it all down for you. They also let you mix and match subjects however you want. They suggest doing 50 in each subject first, and then once you've completed 300 total, you can mix them up. So now I'm doing all 6 subjects mixed up which is how it will be on the Bar. What I suggest is to go to the website and do the free trial first if you're considering Adaptibar. You'll get to do a bunch of sample questions to see if you like how it works. I really needed the extra help, but some folks might not. And always use a code if you sign up. People get referral codes which give each person $50 off, but when I signed up, I found one for $60 off. Can't remember where I found it though... just google around and you should find something.

[themis513]

Any past bar exam takers (especially in NY) know how to get Fed Civ Pro and NY CPLR down for the bar? I have gone over all the lectures and filled out the handouts (basically remember nothing). It was my worst grade in law school.

Now I am trying to condense 100 pages of the handouts into 12 pages or so which will take a whole load of time!!! But I don't know of any other way of going over the material that will help it stick. Anyone???

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Where are you guys getting that the Themis MC aren't actual past bar exam questions? I heard the opposite from a Themis rep. and someone who took Themis last year. She said that the Themis MCs were more similar to the actual bar questions she saw (for NY/NJ), and she heard a lot of complaints about how dissimilar Barbri's questions were to the actual bar exam. She passed NY and NJ, and she's now using Themis to take CA bar (she had to relocate).

The NCBE has only released a few hundred actual questions, and most of the questions are 30+ years old. Everyone asks the same question about this every 5-10 pages in the thread, and that's about the only consensus that has developed.

I know this gets rehashed but here is another angle. Adaptibar says they have 1,530 licensed questions. I highly doubt these are the older questions that people have talked about being previously released. The ones that are easier than the modern questions. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems really unlikely.

Adaptibar has NCBE questions from 2006, 2008, 2011 and 2013.

[blue920]

Any past bar exam takers (especially in NY) know how to get Fed Civ Pro and NY CPLR down for the bar? I have gone over all the lectures and filled out the handouts (basically remember nothing). It was my worst grade in law school.

Now I am trying to condense 100 pages of the handouts into 12 pages or so which will take a whole load of time!!! But I don't know of any other way of going over the material that will help it stick. Anyone???

I hate civ pro and I hated the many, many lectures we had to watch. And I really don't remember anything from them - have been putting off graded essay 3 because it's civ pro.

I'm making flashcards online for my other topics and will probably do the same with civ pro. But honestly, I'm not stressing too much over the topic. I would expect it to come up on the essays (75% frequency) and the NY MC, but there's so much material that I just don't think memorizing every little thing will result in a big payoff. I bought the lean sheets, which condensed NY CPLR down to 3.5 pages with small font, and will probably use those for my flashcard making.

And I'm taking NJ also, which apparently always has a fed civ pro essay to trip up NY takers who don't really study for NJ. Which I admit, I'm not.

[puttycake]

I hate civ pro and I hated the many, many lectures we had to watch. And I really don't remember anything from them - have been putting off graded essay 3 because it's civ pro.

The CA civ pro essays are actually pretty broad. I think so far I've only had to know one bit of timing (for removal) and otherwise just the basic rules of SMJ, PJ, removal, remand, and interlocutory appeal.

Obviously, this is CA and the essays haven't tested CA civ pro, just fed and generic state. Also, obviously, I don't know how it is in your state, but it might not be quite as daunting as you fear?

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

I hate civ pro and I hated the many, many lectures we had to watch. And I really don't remember anything from them - have been putting off graded essay 3 because it's civ pro.

The CA civ pro essays are actually pretty broad. I think so far I've only had to know one bit of timing (for removal) and otherwise just the basic rules of SMJ, PJ, removal, remand, and interlocutory appeal.

Obviously, this is CA and the essays haven't tested CA civ pro, just fed and generic state. Also, obviously, I don't know how it is in your state, but it might not be quite as daunting as you fear?

If after ALL these years they pick July 2014 to test CA Civ Pro I'm going to cry

[blue920]

I hate civ pro and I hated the many, many lectures we had to watch. And I really don't remember anything from them - have been putting off graded essay 3 because it's civ pro.

The CA civ pro essays are actually pretty broad. I think so far I've only had to know one bit of timing (for removal) and otherwise just the basic rules of SMJ, PJ, removal, remand, and interlocutory appeal.

Obviously, this is CA and the essays haven't tested CA civ pro, just fed and generic state. Also, obviously, I don't know how it is in your state, but it might not be quite as daunting as you fear?

I'm not worried about it, but I'd like to do the next essay without referring to my handout - probably not going to happen. My last advisor message said not to use my notes for graded essays, but I don't have the material down yet. You guys are lucky that it's general - NY is NY-specific and then I'm taking NJ which is federal and apparently always tested.

I'll learn the basics for the exam, and if the essay requires more detail, well, I won't get those points. Picking my battles.

[puttycake]

If after ALL these years they pick July 2014 to test CA Civ Pro I'm going to cry

You ain't kiddin'.

But I'm kind of expecting it. Given that civ pro is going on the MBE next year, they probably feel like people have had plenty of warning.

[blue920]

If after ALL these years they pick July 2014 to test CA Civ Pro I'm going to cry

But I'm kind of expecting it. Given that civ pro is going on the MBE next year, they probably feel like people have had plenty of warning.

I just got a message going over the NY topics, and they said expect civ pro (which I was, 75% essay frequency) but they went over the big topics we should be able to discuss and then what we should know generally. NY has 50 NY-specific MC on its day and I've been told they're really difficult and to aim for 50%.

Just another reason to pass this year - I don't want to take the February MBE with civ pro. I might take CT next February, but they'll take MBE scores from the past 3 administrations.

[inkincorporate]

Maybe this is really picky, but has anyone noticed how Ron Colombo, the partnerships/agency lecturer, pronounces T's as if he is English. You have a New York Accent! Embrace it! Idk why but its driving me up the wall, I can barely listen to him. This is likely just a product of bar study but the way he speaks is making me upset.

[themis513]

Anyone else love how the NY CPLR summarized outline is 54 pages!?!?!

[kapital98]

Anyone else love how the NY CPLR summarized outline is 54 pages!?!?!

That's f*cking ridiculous. I skipped the complete outline because it was 140 pages. Themis is just hurting us, rather than helping, by making these outlines exceptionally bloated.

To put this in perspective: Is NY CPLR as important as Torts, Con Law, Contracts, and Crim combined? (14x4=56)

[themis513]

Anyone else love how the NY CPLR summarized outline is 54 pages!?!?!

That's f*cking ridiculous. I skipped the complete outline because it was 140 pages. Themis is just hurting us, rather than helping, by making these outlines exceptionally bloated.

To put this in perspective: Is NY CPLR as important as Torts, Con Law, Contracts, and Crim combined? (14x4=56)

Exactly!!!

I feel like I am wasting a whole bunch of time trying to condense it all into a doable outline but at the same time its a crapshoot as to what in those 140 pages/54 pages will be tested.

[champ33]

NY people... have we not gotten a summary outline for Corporations? I'm trying not to embarrass myself on graded essay #5, but also do not want to read the 55-page handout.

[blue920]

Anyone else love how the NY CPLR summarized outline is 54 pages!?!?!

That's f*cking ridiculous. I skipped the complete outline because it was 140 pages. Themis is just hurting us, rather than helping, by making these outlines exceptionally bloated.

To put this in perspective: Is NY CPLR as important as Torts, Con Law, Contracts, and Crim combined? (14x4=56)

I agree. They said in the message today to "Be able to discuss motion for summary judgment and motion to dismiss. Also know statute of limitations, jurisdiction and provisional remedies (i.e. injunctions, attachment, receivership and notice of pendency)." So that's what I'm going to do, and maybe try to get a few other federal big points in (since I'm also taking NJ).

I could spend the next 4 weeks studying civ pro like crazy, but I just don't think it's worth it. I'll let some of those points go in exchange for others that I'll be better able to master.

[Gotti]

NY people... have we not gotten a summary outline for Corporations? I'm trying not to embarrass myself on graded essay #5, but also do not want to read the 55-page handout.

we just got the msg broadcast today with the link

[kapital98]

Anyone else love how the NY CPLR summarized outline is 54 pages!?!?!

That's f*cking ridiculous. I skipped the complete outline because it was 140 pages. Themis is just hurting us, rather than helping, by making these outlines exceptionally bloated.

To put this in perspective: Is NY CPLR as important as Torts, Con Law, Contracts, and Crim combined? (14x4=56)

I agree. They said in the message today to "Be able to discuss motion for summary judgment and motion to dismiss. Also know statute of limitations, jurisdiction and provisional remedies (i.e. injunctions, attachment, receivership and notice of pendency)." So that's what I'm going to do, and maybe try to get a few other federal big points in (since I'm also taking NJ).

I could spend the next 4 weeks studying civ pro like crazy, but I just don't think it's worth it. I'll let some of those points go in exchange for others that I'll be better able to master.

I just read that message. I like how they are telling us exactly what to look for. It's nice to know what to know cold and what I can just wing on the exam. Telling me *know everything* is not a helpful exam strategy.

[Shawshank33]

FL people -- does Themis provide us with anything on Florida Rules of Judicial Administration or am I missing something? It's mandatorily tested each year and I don't see it as an outline or lecture..does it fall somewhere under professional conduct?

[j1987]

The story at the end of the NY Corporations lecture was hilarious. Or maybe I am just delusional.