Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[NaeDeen]

Commercial Paper has 17 lectures.... FML

Nooooooo....how short are they?

Also, I've downloaded an add-on to Firefox that allows me to speed up lectures by 2.25x...life saver for civ pro man.

How do you fill in the blanks that fast?? If you want a laugh, put it on .5 speed for a minute. It's like you hit the prof with a tranquilizer dart.

Doing corporation lectures today. Got an A in this class in law school, studied it for the VA Bar...don't remember a single thing she's saying.

I did that for the crim law/pro lecture and it was HILARIOUS...I slowed it down to .25x. Even funnier.
I read along and abbreviate. I've gotten through all of civ pro for both MBE and MD today. About to start on corporations myself--should be fun. I never took the class nor anything remotely related so I'm going to have to speed it up only to 1.5x.

[NaeDeen]

Is there a deadline for MEE #2? I still need to outline evidence and crim law.

I've gone past all the deadlines and have yet to have an issue. You should be fine. If you're in doubt, contact your rep.

[grizz91]

This is insane. Put off Milestone #2 until today because I figured it'd give me some time to actually learn the subjects. Scored a 44%....meanwhile on Adaptibar scoring in the 60% range. Getting really frustrated with Themis' roulette-like MBE system. Constantly makes me feel like I'm a mouse on a wheel. Study, bomb a set, panic, repeat.

[1down1togo]

lollawschool

Everyone throughout LS said that taking Fed Income Tax (FIT) was crucial for passing the bar. Seriously, like every single student/professor mentioned how important it was and how if you never took FIT, it would ambush you on the bar and make studying hell. So, I took FIT in LS and thought it wasn't bad at all. (I have a background in math fwiw).

Now, I just blew through the FIT materials in one morning session of like 3 hours and we barely even scratch the surface of tax lol. It's just basic deductions and expenses for the most part. So much for all the hype about how hard FIT was and how you couldn't pass the bar w/o it since it's like 1 question and shouldn't be anything more than a basic application of a few rules.

That means it worked... think about it... You took the subject in law school, and now you essentially don't have to devote any energy to learning it.

[NaeDeen]

Sure hope they don't care about the PQs after each chapter, cause I don't have time to try and answer them by actually thinking. So I'm selecting all D's and moving on to the next video. No time for PQ's when I can just redo them on the designated AQ days.

Side note: corporations is ACTUALLY pretty interesting and easy to follow. Or maybe that's a false sense of security. *back to the grind*

[Easy-E]

Wow. Bombed some of the MEE #2 hard. I actually feel like I did fine on the subjects I didn't outline yet (evidence and crim law), but I struggled otherwise. In reviewing the essays, I feel like the outlines I have just aren't that clear. I need to find some time and review the big outlines against mine.

[NaeDeen]

Whoa, I take that back--the handout is 22 pages but ummmmm it's missing key definitions that might come in handy if I want to get an actual score on the essay I guess I'll print this out out. The amount of ink I've managed to waste is amazing.

[NaeDeen]

Wow. Bombed some of the MEE #2 hard. I actually feel like I did fine on the subjects I didn't outline yet (evidence and crim law), but I struggled otherwise. In reviewing the essays, I feel like the outlines I have just aren't that clear. I need to find some time and review the big outlines against mine.

Sorry to hear...I haven't taken the MBE #2 yet. I'm sure it will kick my butt...in a good way. Keep studying! It will all work out in the end

[BarPreppin'12]

Anyone having problems with the essays? It seems like I can't remember the rules at all when doing them. I score between 60-70 on MBE questions usually, but I can't seem to do well on essays. Although I do t do this on graded essays, for regular, non graded ones, I usually am forced to look in the outlook book. We are a month away from exams and it is extremely disappointing to be doing this poorly on the essay questions. Anyone have any advise?

[iliketurtles123]

Anyone having problems with the essays? It seems like I can't remember the rules at all when doing them. I score between 60-70 on MBE questions usually, but I can't seem to do well on essays. Although I do t do this on graded essays, for regular, non graded ones, I usually am forced to look in the outlook book. We are a month away from exams and it is extremely disappointing to be doing this poorly on the essay questions. Anyone have any advise?

This is me. I'm doing well on MBE's but I can't write the rules from scratch. I know the rules but when I have to write it, I just miss it.

I'm using a flash card type system so I can memorize them. Memorizing the law cold isn't something I did in law school, so it's going to be a different experience.

[ndp1234]

Goddamnit. I need to just always pick the best evidence rule when doing themis questions.

[+] Spoiler

"Answer choice D is incorrect, as even though the statement does not constitute hearsay because it is the statement of an opposing party, the best evidence rule still applies and therefore the objection should be sustained."

[Chardee_MacDennis]

So basically, on con law questions, answers that mention random constitutional clauses are probably correct. This has happened twice re: the Property Clause and the Export Tax Clause, both of which I barely remember reading about.

[BarPreppin'12]

Anyone having problems with the essays? It seems like I can't remember the rules at all when doing them. I score between 60-70 on MBE questions usually, but I can't seem to do well on essays. Although I do t do this on graded essays, for regular, non graded ones, I usually am forced to look in the outlook book. We are a month away from exams and it is extremely disappointing to be doing this poorly on the essay questions. Anyone have any advise?

This is me. I'm doing well on MBE's but I can't write the rules from scratch. I know the rules but when I have to write it, I just miss it.

I'm using a flash card type system so I can memorize them. Memorizing the law cold isn't something I did in law school, so it's going to be a different experience.

Same with me. Most of my exams in law school were open book exams. Moreover, on essay exams, it was usually a discrete subject, not 3-4 wrapped into one out of a possible 19. For Florida, the bar examiners can choose from 19 subjects. Some of the subjects, like family, have over 10 facts to consider. That's fine. I can learn 10 factors. But 10 factors in family law, the hundreds of different factors in torts and criminal law, the intricacies of Trusts, among the many other things makes it very difficult. That + it is all mixed up. I could have a Family law question with a Dependency + Juvenile question wrapped up, topped off with Ethics. It is just so overwhelming.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

And seriously, fuck the MBE. From mixed set 3:

[+] Spoiler

A potential gang member was required to go through an initiation in order to formally join the gang. The head of the gang told the potential member that he had to drive the getaway car in a robbery for his initiation task. Three members of the gang, including the gang leader, went to a bank one morning and held up the bank tellers. When they emerged from the bank, the potential member, who had been waiting around the corner, pulled up outside the bank in a car and drove them away. Bank security cameras recorded the gang members in the act of robbing the bank. When they were arrested, the gang members told the police that the potential gang member had driven the getaway car. He was subsequently arrested for robbing the bank.
Will the potential gang member likely be convicted of robbery?

Answers:

Yes, because he was an accessory before the fact.
Yes, because he was a principal in the second degree.
No, because he did not enter the bank and hold up the tellers.
No, because he was under duress.

Who gives a shit what we call him, he's guilty as an accomplice either way.

[1down1togo]

And seriously, fuck the MBE. From mixed set 3:

[+] Spoiler

A potential gang member was required to go through an initiation in order to formally join the gang. The head of the gang told the potential member that he had to drive the getaway car in a robbery for his initiation task. Three members of the gang, including the gang leader, went to a bank one morning and held up the bank tellers. When they emerged from the bank, the potential member, who had been waiting around the corner, pulled up outside the bank in a car and drove them away. Bank security cameras recorded the gang members in the act of robbing the bank. When they were arrested, the gang members told the police that the potential gang member had driven the getaway car. He was subsequently arrested for robbing the bank.
Will the potential gang member likely be convicted of robbery?

Answers:

Yes, because he was an accessory before the fact.
Yes, because he was a principal in the second degree.
No, because he did not enter the bank and hold up the tellers.
No, because he was under duress.

Who gives a shit what we call him, he's guilty as an accomplice either way.

Actually no...

[+] Spoiler

actually no, he is not an accomplice either way. Accomplices are guilty for the underlying crime. Accessories after the fact Are NOT accomplices, and they are NOT guilty for the underlying crime- they are guilty of separate crime- that of helping after the crime.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

And seriously, fuck the MBE. From mixed set 3:

[+] Spoiler

A potential gang member was required to go through an initiation in order to formally join the gang. The head of the gang told the potential member that he had to drive the getaway car in a robbery for his initiation task. Three members of the gang, including the gang leader, went to a bank one morning and held up the bank tellers. When they emerged from the bank, the potential member, who had been waiting around the corner, pulled up outside the bank in a car and drove them away. Bank security cameras recorded the gang members in the act of robbing the bank. When they were arrested, the gang members told the police that the potential gang member had driven the getaway car. He was subsequently arrested for robbing the bank.
Will the potential gang member likely be convicted of robbery?

Answers:

Yes, because he was an accessory before the fact.
Yes, because he was a principal in the second degree.
No, because he did not enter the bank and hold up the tellers.
No, because he was under duress.

Who gives a shit what we call him, he's guilty as an accomplice either way.

Actually no...

[+] Spoiler

actually no, he is not an accomplice either way. Accomplices are guilty for the underlying crime. Accessories after the fact Are NOT accomplices, and they are NOT guilty for the underlying crime- they are guilty of separate crime- that of helping after the crime.

Reread the answer choices.

[1down1togo]

Also are people buying any supplemental materials? I planned to pickup lean sheets as I've seen raves about them, wondered if others were doing the same?

Didn't realize people got supplements outside of their bar course. Is this TCR? I just figured that completing Themis would be sufficient. How much work outside the schedule of the course are people doing? Or is it fine to just stick strictly to the Themis schedule?

I think all this supplement hype is crazy. I passed the NC bar in 2013, with no supplements- and none of my law schools friends used them either, and they all passed- except 1 girl- but that's a whole different story. Now I'm taking Themis for the Virginia bar. For Virginia, at least, Themis says that 90%- NINETY PERCENT of people who get 100% completion pass the bar. I figure- why spend my time on supplements? Why not just do 100% of the themis program and give myself a 90% chance of passing?

I mean, i guess if you can do the entire themis program, and you still have extra time- do supplements? But I dunno. Plenty of people swear by them. And maybe I'll fail this time; But I'm not using them, no time for that crap.

[1down1togo]

And seriously, fuck the MBE. From mixed set 3:

[+] Spoiler

A potential gang member was required to go through an initiation in order to formally join the gang. The head of the gang told the potential member that he had to drive the getaway car in a robbery for his initiation task. Three members of the gang, including the gang leader, went to a bank one morning and held up the bank tellers. When they emerged from the bank, the potential member, who had been waiting around the corner, pulled up outside the bank in a car and drove them away. Bank security cameras recorded the gang members in the act of robbing the bank. When they were arrested, the gang members told the police that the potential gang member had driven the getaway car. He was subsequently arrested for robbing the bank.
Will the potential gang member likely be convicted of robbery?

Answers:

Yes, because he was an accessory before the fact.
Yes, because he was a principal in the second degree.
No, because he did not enter the bank and hold up the tellers.
No, because he was under duress.

Who gives a shit what we call him, he's guilty as an accomplice either way.

Actually no...

[+] Spoiler

actually no, he is not an accomplice either way. Accomplices are guilty for the underlying crime. Accessories after the fact Are NOT accomplices, and they are NOT guilty for the underlying crime- they are guilty of separate crime- that of helping after the crime.

Reread the answer choices.

Damn, I though it said after. That is stupid as hell.

[Fivedham]

I think all this supplement hype is crazy. I passed the NC bar in 2013, with no supplements- and none of my law schools friends used them either, and they all passed- except 1 girl- but that's a whole different story. Now I'm taking Themis for the Virginia bar. For Virginia, at least, Themis says that 90%- NINETY PERCENT of people who get 100% completion pass the bar. I figure- why spend my time on supplements? Why not just do 100% of the themis program and give myself a 90% chance of passing?

I mean, i guess if you can do the entire themis program, and you still have extra time- do supplements? But I dunno. Plenty of people swear by them. And maybe I'll fail this time; But I'm not using them, no time for that crap.

I'm using flash cards that I bought, and one of the MBE supplement programs. I think you're probably correct, but as a first-time taker who's nervous about this whole thing, I'd rather do my due diligence and over-prepare, even if it means I'm spending ~ $400 more than I needed. The way I look at it, $400 is cheaper than having to retake in February anyway. I'm on track to get to 100% of Themis' program, but I want the cushion. If an MBE supplement means I'm gonna get a 180 on the MBE, and I can basically write the essays in crayon, then I'm glad to have paid if without the supplement, I'd just have squeaked by with a 130.

But yeah, I'll let you know in October if it was all panic for nothing. It can clearly be both, since the vast majority of people only pass with their main prep program. I can tell you now that I like having the security blanket.

[NaeDeen]

I think all this supplement hype is crazy. I passed the NC bar in 2013, with no supplements- and none of my law schools friends used them either, and they all passed- except 1 girl- but that's a whole different story. Now I'm taking Themis for the Virginia bar. For Virginia, at least, Themis says that 90%- NINETY PERCENT of people who get 100% completion pass the bar. I figure- why spend my time on supplements? Why not just do 100% of the themis program and give myself a 90% chance of passing?

I mean, i guess if you can do the entire themis program, and you still have extra time- do supplements? But I dunno. Plenty of people swear by them. And maybe I'll fail this time; But I'm not using them, no time for that crap.

I'm using flash cards that I bought, and one of the MBE supplement programs. I think you're probably correct, but as a first-time taker who's nervous about this whole thing, I'd rather do my due diligence and over-prepare, even if it means I'm spending ~ $400 more than I needed. The way I look at it, $400 is cheaper than having to retake in February anyway. I'm on track to get to 100% of Themis' program, but I want the cushion. If an MBE supplement means I'm gonna get a 180 on the MBE, and I can basically write the essays in crayon, then I'm glad to have paid if without the supplement, I'd just have squeaked by with a 130.

But yeah, I'll let you know in October if it was all panic for nothing. It can clearly be both, since the vast majority of people only pass with their main prep program. I can tell you now that I like having the security blanket.

I enjoy a good coloring book session.
I too am using supplements simply because of everything you said. I've spent thousands on a legal education, and I'm going to pass the bar exam on the first try. My goal is 175

[Chardee_MacDennis]

And seriously, fuck the MBE. From mixed set 3:

[+] Spoiler

A potential gang member was required to go through an initiation in order to formally join the gang. The head of the gang told the potential member that he had to drive the getaway car in a robbery for his initiation task. Three members of the gang, including the gang leader, went to a bank one morning and held up the bank tellers. When they emerged from the bank, the potential member, who had been waiting around the corner, pulled up outside the bank in a car and drove them away. Bank security cameras recorded the gang members in the act of robbing the bank. When they were arrested, the gang members told the police that the potential gang member had driven the getaway car. He was subsequently arrested for robbing the bank.
Will the potential gang member likely be convicted of robbery?

Answers:

Yes, because he was an accessory before the fact.
Yes, because he was a principal in the second degree.
No, because he did not enter the bank and hold up the tellers.
No, because he was under duress.

Who gives a shit what we call him, he's guilty as an accomplice either way.

Actually no...

[+] Spoiler

actually no, he is not an accomplice either way. Accomplices are guilty for the underlying crime. Accessories after the fact Are NOT accomplices, and they are NOT guilty for the underlying crime- they are guilty of separate crime- that of helping after the crime.

Reread the answer choices.

Damn, I though it said after. That is stupid as hell.

Yeah, very stupid.

[a_bowler_hat]

i just shat the bed so hard on the "estate of keefe" CA performance test.

[1down1togo]

Just did MBE Mixed Session 3. Had done the first 2 in interactive mode, but decided to do this on Test mode. Got 66 and 74 on the first two, but then fell below the goal score with a 58 on the third session.

Was there a consensus that session 3 was any harder? I'm guessing it is more likely because of my switch to test mode and not being able to review my answers between each question. Discouraging nonetheless.

Strange, I did the first two sets on Interactive and bombed them, but did the third on Test Mode and scored higher.

Safe to say: this shit sucks.

I've done 9 sets on interactive- and got between 68-80 on each of them. I just did one on Test Mode after all the hype on this board. Scored a 58%. Am freaking out now, and feel like I was only scoring high because I wasn't doing it "authentically."

Does anyone else notice a big difference between Interactive and Test mode?

[ultimolugar]

This is insane. Put off Milestone #2 until today because I figured it'd give me some time to actually learn the subjects. Scored a 44%....meanwhile on Adaptibar scoring in the 60% range. Getting really frustrated with Themis' roulette-like MBE system. Constantly makes me feel like I'm a mouse on a wheel. Study, bomb a set, panic, repeat.

I'm telling you all! THEMIS QUESTIONS ARE MUCH DIFFICULT.

[1down1togo]

This is insane. Put off Milestone #2 until today because I figured it'd give me some time to actually learn the subjects. Scored a 44%....meanwhile on Adaptibar scoring in the 60% range. Getting really frustrated with Themis' roulette-like MBE system. Constantly makes me feel like I'm a mouse on a wheel. Study, bomb a set, panic, repeat.

I'm telling you all! THEMIS QUESTIONS ARE MUCH DIFFICULT.

Are they? I know Kaplan and Barbri are- and that they do it on purpose- the idea being If you can make it through these super hard questions- then real ones on the test will seem easy. Also, as a way to scare you into studying because you are not doing well (because the questions are so hard). I took kaplan the first time, and honestly, the actual mbe questions did seem easier.

I thought I had heard that themis was not trying to scare you with hard questions and that they were supposed to be more like the questions on the bar??