Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Genuine4ps]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

rant/

Exactly. In NY 14% of first time takers fail the test. I've put an incredible amount of money into my legal education and went to one of the finest universities in the world. All of that means nothing. There is a 14% chance, based on an arbitrary test, that I will not be able to practice law in my state.

Why would any system allow you to put this much time and money into your education if you can't practice? Why not just flunk out 14% of law school classes and save everyone the time?

If there was no bar exam I could already be representing clients and contributing to society. The fact that I wouldn't lose 5 months in salary doesn't hurt either.

OMG This. Not only are we not contributing to the economy, we're also losing 5 months of income. So now--depending on your salary--the bar is costing anywhere from $30-60k. What sucks is that nobody cares once they take the bar so this will never change. Kind of the way law school will never be reduced to 2 years.

[puttycake]

OMG This. Not only are we not contributing to the economy, we're also losing 5 months of income. So now--depending on your salary--the bar is costing anywhere from $30-60k.

I'm in public interest. It's costing me something like three dollars.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

OMG This. Not only are we not contributing to the economy, we're also losing 5 months of income. So now--depending on your salary--the bar is costing anywhere from $30-60k.

I'm in public interest. It's costing me something like three dollars.

the cost of not having you out there representing the clients and world problems that need you SO much?? Priceless.

[numbertwo88]

Are any of you all going to hand write the exam?

I'm rethinking my decision to type.

[Prime]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

rant/

Exactly. In NY 14% of first time takers fail the test. I've put an incredible amount of money into my legal education and went to one of the finest universities in the world. All of that means nothing. There is a 14% chance, based on an arbitrary test, that I will not be able to practice law in my state.

Why would any system allow you to put this much time and money into your education if you can't practice? Why not just flunk out 14% of law school classes and save everyone the time?

If there was no bar exam I could already be representing clients and contributing to society. The fact that I wouldn't lose 5 months in salary doesn't hurt either.

OMG This. Not only are we not contributing to the economy, we're also losing 5 months of income. So now--depending on your salary--the bar is costing anywhere from $30-60k. What sucks is that nobody cares once they take the bar so this will never change. Kind of the way law school will never be reduced to 2 years.

Getting my results back in November!? Just what I always wanted!

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Are any of you all going to hand write the exam?

I'm rethinking my decision to type.

It crossed my mind because I don't like my new laptop. And I had a law professor who wrote it by hand and passed - so it's definitely doable. I'm still glad I'm typing it though because I type really fast... I just wonder if I wrote it out instead, if there would be more leniency with grading. If they grade handwritten exams easier, then I definitely should have chosen the writing option!

[Tanicius]

WTF Themis. They scheduled 14 videos that are all between 15 and 25 minutes long for CivPro in one day. You've got to be kidding me.

[Lasers]

for those in CA: are the evidence outlines in the multistate and CA books the same except for the CA distinction blurbs?

[puttycake]

for those in CA: are the evidence outlines in the multistate and CA books the same except for the CA distinction blurbs?

I think so. I only read the CA evidence one. SO INCREDIBLY LONG.

[Lasers]

for those in CA: are the evidence outlines in the multistate and CA books the same except for the CA distinction blurbs?

I think so. I only read the CA evidence one. SO INCREDIBLY LONG.

yeah, seriously. so painful.

not sure why they have two of pretty much the same outlines. the multistate one without the blurbs seems pretty unnecessary.

[puttycake]

for those in CA: are the evidence outlines in the multistate and CA books the same except for the CA distinction blurbs?

I think so. I only read the CA evidence one. SO INCREDIBLY LONG.

yeah, seriously. so painful.

not sure why they have two of pretty much the same outlines. the multistate one without the blurbs seems pretty unnecessary.

I think they just send that same book to everyone.

[071816]

WTF Themis. They scheduled 14 videos that are all between 15 and 25 minutes long for CivPro in one day. You've got to be kidding me.

THANKS OBAMA

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Making some progress with the MBEs (thank goodness!) but EXTREMELY stressed that I still need to refer to my notes for each and every essay problem I attempt. It's really scaring me. Time to make a new study plan because whatever I'm doing isn't working. Maybe force myself to do nothing but write essays from noon on?? Ack! Most say the "real" panic sets in after July 4th. HA! It's here in full force already!!

[SilverE2]

Making some progress with the MBEs (thank goodness!) but EXTREMELY stressed that I still need to refer to my notes for each and every essay problem I attempt. It's really scaring me. Time to make a new study plan because whatever I'm doing isn't working. Maybe force myself to do nothing but write essays from noon on?? Ack! Most say the "real" panic sets in after July 4th. HA! It's here in full force already!!

Same here, but I'm not really worried. As soon as the lectures finish up, which is really soon, all we'll be doing all day is memorizing things and practicing. Not fretting about having to refer to the outlines for essays for now.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Making some progress with the MBEs (thank goodness!) but EXTREMELY stressed that I still need to refer to my notes for each and every essay problem I attempt. It's really scaring me. Time to make a new study plan because whatever I'm doing isn't working. Maybe force myself to do nothing but write essays from noon on?? Ack! Most say the "real" panic sets in after July 4th. HA! It's here in full force already!!

Same here, but I'm not really worried. As soon as the lectures finish up, which is really soon, all we'll be doing all day is memorizing things and practicing. Not fretting about having to refer to the outlines for essays for now.

That's a healthy outlook and makes sense. I need to calm down lol

[Genuine4ps]

Making some progress with the MBEs (thank goodness!) but EXTREMELY stressed that I still need to refer to my notes for each and every essay problem I attempt. It's really scaring me. Time to make a new study plan because whatever I'm doing isn't working. Maybe force myself to do nothing but write essays from noon on?? Ack! Most say the "real" panic sets in after July 4th. HA! It's here in full force already!!

Same here, but I'm not really worried. As soon as the lectures finish up, which is really soon, all we'll be doing all day is memorizing things and practicing. Not fretting about having to refer to the outlines for essays for now.

This.

[Lasers]

fuck conlaw. i apparently don't know conlaw. still.

evidence is making me cry.

[kapital98]

Caterpillars! Caterpillars everywhere!

[Tanicius]

Making some progress with the MBEs (thank goodness!) but EXTREMELY stressed that I still need to refer to my notes for each and every essay problem I attempt. It's really scaring me. Time to make a new study plan because whatever I'm doing isn't working. Maybe force myself to do nothing but write essays from noon on?? Ack! Most say the "real" panic sets in after July 4th. HA! It's here in full force already!!

Same here, but I'm not really worried. As soon as the lectures finish up, which is really soon, all we'll be doing all day is memorizing things and practicing. Not fretting about having to refer to the outlines for essays for now.

I'm not even really doing non-MBE-topic essays at this point. It's a waste of time when I don't know the rules well enough.

[hous]

I actually have an awesome essay grader. She provides good feedback and is fast. I was behind on the third essay and did it yesterday. It was already graded this morning.

[VermiciousKnid]

Making some progress with the MBEs (thank goodness!) but EXTREMELY stressed that I still need to refer to my notes for each and every essay problem I attempt. It's really scaring me. Time to make a new study plan because whatever I'm doing isn't working. Maybe force myself to do nothing but write essays from noon on?? Ack! Most say the "real" panic sets in after July 4th. HA! It's here in full force already!!

I spoke to my advisor a few days ago and told him I still needed to use the outline for most of my essays. He said that was fine for now, but that I should start weaning myself off of them in the next week or two.

I find I generally know the answer to the essay question and a loose explanation of why the answer is correct, but I don't know the rules well enough to write out the analysis in detail. Memorization is my weakness, so I know I have a lot of work ahead of me.

* Oops first post...been reading for a while and figure I should jump in, cause not like I have anything else I should be doing.*

[VermiciousKnid]

fuck conlaw. i apparently don't know conlaw. still.

evidence is making me cry.

Glad I'm not the only one. I know the tests and rules, but can't apply them to a question. On the 1st milestone I missed 2 torts questions, 2 property questions...and the rest were all con law.

[Genuine4ps]

Is anyone feeling like the number of practice essays should be cut in half? We all know how to write these essays, because we've been doing them for the past three years. Seems like time could be better spent.

[Tanicius]

Is anyone feeling like the number of practice essays should be cut in half? We all know how to write these essays, because we've been doing them for the past three years. Seems like time could be better spent.

Yes. Remember that the bar prep is tailored to the lowest common denominator. I graduated near the bottom of my class because I always bad at essays, but that was compared to a bunch of T-14 nerdbirds who are just smarter and better at playing the game of school than I am. I've yet to receive a "structure" grade on a bar essay that is below 4/6, despite never getting an above media grade in any essay exam class I ever took in law school. If you went to a mid-tier law school with any sensible legal writing program, your problem is not going to be getting down the TRAC method.

I've honestly just started skipping essay assignments wholesale. They're accessible after you "complete" them for the whole duration of the bar prep period, so I just figure when I practice writing rule statements under closed book and timed conditions the last two weeks of July, I'll do it then.

[Genuine4ps]

Is anyone feeling like the number of practice essays should be cut in half? We all know how to write these essays, because we've been doing them for the past three years. Seems like time could be better spent.

Yes. Remember that the bar prep is tailored to the lowest common denominator. I graduated near the bottom of my class because I always bad at essays, but that was compared to a bunch of T-14 nerdbirds who are just smarter and better at playing the game of school than I am. I've yet to receive a "structure" grade on a bar essay that is below 4/6, despite never getting an above media grade in any essay exam class I ever took in law school. If you went to a mid-tier law school with any sensible legal writing program, your problem is not going to be getting down the TRAC method.

I've honestly just started skipping essay assignments wholesale. They're accessible after you "complete" them for the whole duration of the bar prep period, so I just figure when I practice writing rule statements under closed book and timed conditions the last two weeks of July, I'll do it then.

My thinking exactly.