Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Tanicius]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

Well, but it's not about making money for the bar prep companies. It's not like the lobbyists here. The people making money are the licensed attorneys who benefit from not having as many competitors in their state. It's about monopolization of services and protecting members of the ABA and state by instituting a test that weeds out people arbitrarily.

[Gopackgo2010]

Has anyone else also signed up for baressays.com? I've noticed that actual essays that received a 65-70 were nothing special. Additionally, one essay I read that got a 55 literally got every law backwards. I'm wondering whether it has to do with which bar graders happen to grade your essays or if it's not as difficult as Themis makes it out to be. It's probably a bit of both. Last semester I took a bar exam workshop course at my law school, and we were assigned 3 essays that were graded by barbri. The first one I took in class, under timed conditions, barely studied and got a 55. I wanted to try an experiment with the second one, so I did that one at home, open book, ripped off the model answer from the CA bar website for that essay and then spent like 2-3 hours making it even better by using the big outline....I got a 55

I got baressays because frankly I was panicking a bit. Okay, I was panicking a lot. It helped me enormously at setting more realistic standards for what I need to get down and what I don't need to worry about as much.

What kind of frustrates me is how arbitrary graded essays can be. We've all been through law school, so we realize how professors grade differently.

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

rant/

[Prime]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

Well, but it's not about making money for the bar prep companies. It's not like the lobbyists here. The people making money are the licensed attorneys who benefit from not having as many competitors in their state. It's about monopolization of services and protecting members of the ABA and state by instituting a test that weeds out people arbitrarily.

Part of me agrees with both of you.

However, it's a pretty nice racket to run when you can charge someone $320 plus another $80 for laptop usage (so you don't lose points due to 'sloppy' handwriting) plus another $100 (or whatever the examsoft software costs). For the people who are on the borderline of passing, you are entirely reliant on who you get as your essay/writing grader. This applies to Texas and the wonky bar they serve.

[Gopackgo2010]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

Well, but it's not about making money for the bar prep companies. It's not like the lobbyists here. The people making money are the licensed attorneys who benefit from not having as many competitors in their state. It's about monopolization of services and protecting members of the ABA and state by instituting a test that weeds out people arbitrarily.

[Gopackgo2010]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

Well, but it's not about making money for the bar prep companies. It's not like the lobbyists here. The people making money are the licensed attorneys who benefit from not having as many competitors in their state. It's about monopolization of services and protecting members of the ABA and state by instituting a test that weeds out people arbitrarily.

Isn't it? I'm not saying that's the main purpose, but think about who runs and are employed by these prep companies. Law school profs, who luckily have a sweet gig already, but a lot of the admin are people who passed the bar and either never became practicing lawyers or who did and hated it. They get to use their JD and the fact they passed the Bar for some type of employment, which helps law schools in their employment stats....the whole newly minted JD Preferred category. Same rings true for LSAT Prep co

Wait we have to pay for ExamSoft? (Actually, I'm not surprised)

[Genuine4ps]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

Well, but it's not about making money for the bar prep companies. It's not like the lobbyists here. The people making money are the licensed attorneys who benefit from not having as many competitors in their state. It's about monopolization of services and protecting members of the ABA and state by instituting a test that weeds out people arbitrarily.

Part of me agrees with both of you.

However, it's a pretty nice racket to run when you can charge someone $320 plus another $80 for laptop usage (so you don't lose points due to 'sloppy' handwriting) plus another $100 (or whatever the examsoft software costs). For the people who are on the borderline of passing, you are entirely reliant on who you get as your essay/writing grader. This applies to Texas and the wonky bar they serve.

Where are those two figures from? I only had to pay for examsoft.

[Tanicius]

Part of me agrees with both of you.

However, it's a pretty nice racket to run when you can charge someone $320 plus another $80 for laptop usage (so you don't lose points due to 'sloppy' handwriting) plus another $100 (or whatever the examsoft software costs). For the people who are on the borderline of passing, you are entirely reliant on who you get as your essay/writing grader. This applies to Texas and the wonky bar they serve.

Where are those two figures from? I only had to pay for examsoft.

I had to pay $500 to register for my bar exam, plus $100 to register my laptop for the exam. And that's not even that expensive. In California I believe you have to pay about $1,200 between both the bar and laptop registration fees.

[Gotti]

Part of me agrees with both of you.

However, it's a pretty nice racket to run when you can charge someone $320 plus another $80 for laptop usage (so you don't lose points due to 'sloppy' handwriting) plus another $100 (or whatever the examsoft software costs). For the people who are on the borderline of passing, you are entirely reliant on who you get as your essay/writing grader. This applies to Texas and the wonky bar they serve.

Where are those two figures from? I only had to pay for examsoft.

I had to pay $500 to register for my bar exam, plus $100 to register my laptop for the exam. And that's not even that expensive. In California I believe you have to pay about $1,200 between both the bar and laptop registration fees.

NY + NJ = $200 for NY, $575 for NJ, $100 laptop fee, $60 fingerprint appointment, $50-60 for MBE transfer.... plus a bunch of other little things I can't even remember. Oh yeah and if people took barbri and didn't get it paid for, that's another $4000. It's ridiculous.

[Shane]

Does anyone know the usual passing scores on the MBE?

[Prime]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

Well, but it's not about making money for the bar prep companies. It's not like the lobbyists here. The people making money are the licensed attorneys who benefit from not having as many competitors in their state. It's about monopolization of services and protecting members of the ABA and state by instituting a test that weeds out people arbitrarily.

Part of me agrees with both of you.

However, it's a pretty nice racket to run when you can charge someone $320 plus another *$80 for laptop usage (so you don't lose points due to 'sloppy' handwriting) plus another $100 (or whatever the examsoft software costs). For the people who are on the borderline of passing, you are entirely reliant on who you get as your essay/writing grader. This applies to Texas and the wonky bar they serve.

Where are those two figures from? I only had to pay for examsoft.

http://www.ble.state.tx.us/Rules/NewRules/Rule18.pdf
http://www.ble.state.tx.us/Applications/Laptop.htm

*I misspoke on the laptop fee: $50 not $80.

[puttycake]

I can't remember who else was unable to print their ticket in CA, but my status has changed now to say they are awaiting my transcript.

So no panicking yet!

[Gopackgo2010]

CA BAR FEE SCHEDULE (I'd like to see anyone from a different jurisdiction beat this lol)

Registration as a Law Student $108.00
Application to Take the California Bar Examination as a General Applicant $614.00
Examination Laptop Fee $139.00
Application for Determination of Moral Character $500.00
Admission Certificates $81.00 (I think these are optional, but who knows)

G-d forbid you have a problem with your Moral App.....

Application for Extension of Determination of Moral Character $240.00
State Bar Court Moral Character Appeal Fee $500.00

[Gopackgo2010]

I can't remember who else was unable to print their ticket in CA, but my status has changed now to say they are awaiting my transcript.

So no panicking yet!

Mine still says eligibility pending. I think I'd rather have yours haha

[Tanicius]

Awww yes, at last. The catharsis.

[071816]

CA BAR FEE SCHEDULE (I'd like to see anyone from a different jurisdiction beat this lol)

Registration as a Law Student $108.00
Application to Take the California Bar Examination as a General Applicant $614.00
Examination Laptop Fee $139.00
Application for Determination of Moral Character $500.00
Admission Certificates $81.00 (I think these are optional, but who knows)

G-d forbid you have a problem with your Moral App.....

Application for Extension of Determination of Moral Character $240.00
State Bar Court Moral Character Appeal Fee $500.00

that's one hell of a racket they have going.

[071816]

Awww yes, at last. The catharsis.

I'm there too as of today. Feels kinda good. I guess... lol

[Genuine4ps]

CA BAR FEE SCHEDULE (I'd like to see anyone from a different jurisdiction beat this lol)

Registration as a Law Student $108.00
Application to Take the California Bar Examination as a General Applicant $614.00
Examination Laptop Fee $139.00
Application for Determination of Moral Character $500.00
Admission Certificates $81.00 (I think these are optional, but who knows)

G-d forbid you have a problem with your Moral App.....

Application for Extension of Determination of Moral Character $240.00
State Bar Court Moral Character Appeal Fee $500.00

that's one hell of a racket they have going.

I am shocked CA would squeeze every penny it can out of its residents.

[071816]

CA BAR FEE SCHEDULE (I'd like to see anyone from a different jurisdiction beat this lol)

Registration as a Law Student $108.00
Application to Take the California Bar Examination as a General Applicant $614.00
Examination Laptop Fee $139.00
Application for Determination of Moral Character $500.00
Admission Certificates $81.00 (I think these are optional, but who knows)

G-d forbid you have a problem with your Moral App.....

Application for Extension of Determination of Moral Character $240.00
State Bar Court Moral Character Appeal Fee $500.00

that's one hell of a racket they have going.

I am shocked CA would squeeze every penny it can out of its residents.

THANKS OBAMA

[SilverE2]

$1,000 bar registration + $125 laptop fee + whatever examsoft costs, here in Florida.

It's cheaper if you register 1L year, but I went to law school out of state, and wasn't sure where I would end up.

[Gotti]

blahhhhh i'm still at 40% . i'm SO BORED OF STUDYING FOR THE BAR.

[kapital98]

The more I think about the bar, the more realize how stupid the entire process is, especially considering that we graduated from accredited law schools. It's like, "yes, we accredited your law school. Sure, you were admitted to that accredited law school. Sure, you graduated from it. But we don't trust you. Despite graduating from a law school we accredited, you have still not proven you have what it takes to be an attorney. So we're going to have you to tack on a few more thousand onto your loans in bar fees and bar prep fees. You're welcome."

I hate to be cynical, but this process is not about ensuring we have what it takes to be lawyers. People are making a lot of money off it.

rant/

Exactly. In NY 14% of first time takers fail the test. I've put an incredible amount of money into my legal education and went to one of the finest universities in the world. All of that means nothing. There is a 14% chance, based on an arbitrary test, that I will not be able to practice law in my state.

Why would any system allow you to put this much time and money into your education if you can't practice? Why not just flunk out 14% of law school classes and save everyone the time?

If there was no bar exam I could already be representing clients and contributing to society. The fact that I wouldn't lose 5 months in salary doesn't hurt either.

[Lasers]

blahhhhh i'm still at 40% . i'm SO BORED OF STUDYING FOR THE BAR.

i wish i was at 40%.

[blue920]

So I'm making flashcards of the rules I got wrong on MBE Real Property questions, and I'm on a question about purchase money mortgages. I was clear that they were first priority, but I was confused as to what they actually were. And then comes the rule:

However, a purchase money mortgage (i.e., a mortgage used to finance the purchase of the property) has priority over all other non-purchase money mortgages, even those recorded earlier.

So I'm sitting here going, huh, that makes a lot of sense. You can tell I've never owned a home. Also, I think bar prep is frying my brain.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

CA BAR FEE SCHEDULE (I'd like to see anyone from a different jurisdiction beat this lol)

Registration as a Law Student $108.00
Application to Take the California Bar Examination as a General Applicant $614.00
Examination Laptop Fee $139.00
Application for Determination of Moral Character $500.00
Admission Certificates $81.00 (I think these are optional, but who knows)

G-d forbid you have a problem with your Moral App.....

Application for Extension of Determination of Moral Character $240.00
State Bar Court Moral Character Appeal Fee $500.00

Yep. It's sure is CrAzY.

[jigglypuffdreams]

This whole time I've been obsessing about getting to that magical 75% because I remember that being a big deal last year. Just get to 75% and I'm eligible for a free course next time. Wasn't until it came up in this thread that I realized it wasn't a thing anymore. Oh well, at least my cheapness inspired me to get through things faster. And it seems like they only put people who make it up into 75% into their pass rates, so at least I'll count for statistics purposes. Whee!