July 2016 Virginia Bar Thread Forum

[justonemoregame]

Has anyone seen a chart showing essay raw score conversion to scaled? I've seen a source that claims a 70 raw is about 155 scaled, and then weighted at 60%, would be about 93 points.

[doctoroflaw91]

Decided to make today a Virginia Civil Procedure day. My anxiety for the exam is going up every hour I study the "rules." How am I going to remember all this crap? It's so random.

Been struggling with the same thing. I just keep reminding myself that we are truly all in the same boat, and learning EVERYTHING is impossible. You can only do the best you can, and there's nothing more than you can ask of yourself.

Also, as a fellow attorney reminded me, a lot of idiots pass the bar. You are certainly not an idiot, so you can too. Chin up!

Thanks for the encouragement! I passed the bar in California (moved to Virginia recently). This test is harder, don't let anyone convince you otherwise. California has a lower pass rate than Virginia but that is because California permits non-JDs and graduates from non-ABA schools to sit for the exam. This test has way more material than California!

Oh totally. But I guess I take some solace in the fact that we are all in the same boat. The sheer amount of information is an unfortunate challenge for all of us . . . and they certainly can't fail everyone

[ironbmike]

Has anyone seen a chart showing essay raw score conversion to scaled? I've seen a source that claims a 70 raw is about 155 scaled, and then weighted at 60%, would be about 93 points.

Also wondering this.

[kcdc1]

VBBE website says the calculation is done as follows:

1. Calculate average MBE
2. Grade essays
3. Set essay average equal to MBE average
4. Candidate passes if 140 <= 40% * MBE score + 60% * essay score
5. If candidate's total is just below 140, regrade essays to see if there is justification to increase score into passing range

Summer MBE average has been near 140, so summer essay average will also be near 140.

[ironbmike]

VBBE website says the calculation is done as follows:

1. Calculate average MBE
2. Grade essays
3. Set essay average equal to MBE average
4. Candidate passes if 140 <= 40% * MBE score + 60% * essay score
5. If candidate's total is just below 140, regrade essays to see if there is justification to increase score into passing range

Summer MBE average has been near 140, so summer essay average will also be near 140.

But how does that translate raw score wise?

[kcdc1]

VBBE website says the calculation is done as follows:

1. Calculate average MBE
2. Grade essays
3. Set essay average equal to MBE average
4. Candidate passes if 140 <= 40% * MBE score + 60% * essay score
5. If candidate's total is just below 140, regrade essays to see if there is justification to increase score into passing range

Summer MBE average has been near 140, so summer essay average will also be near 140.

But how does that translate raw score wise?

Are you asking how many points the average test-taker scores on the essays? I'm sure it varies by test, but Barbri seems to think the answer earns about half or a little more of the available points. If you score better than average on the essays, your essay component will almost surely be above 140.

[doctoroflaw91]

Uhhh can anyone offer any good resources for actually understanding commercial paper? The Barbri language was like a foreign language to me.

[mtp525]

Anyone driving from DC or know anyone who is?

I'll split gas for a ride!

[justonemoregame]

Uhhh can anyone offer any good resources for actually understanding commercial paper? The Barbri language was like a foreign language to me.

A pure commercial paper essay would ruin me. Kaplan's outline wasn't extraordinarily clear, either fwiw.

[justonemoregame]

VBBE website says the calculation is done as follows:

1. Calculate average MBE
2. Grade essays
3. Set essay average equal to MBE average
4. Candidate passes if 140 <= 40% * MBE score + 60% * essay score
5. If candidate's total is just below 140, regrade essays to see if there is justification to increase score into passing range

Summer MBE average has been near 140, so summer essay average will also be near 140.

But how does that translate raw score wise?

Are you asking how many points the average test-taker scores on the essays? I'm sure it varies by test, but Barbri seems to think the answer earns about half or a little more of the available points. If you score better than average on the essays, your essay component will almost surely be above 140.

Right, looking for the number of raw points that would translate to a [roughly approximated] scaled score. It sounds like for a 140, something in the 55/100 range would get you there. Not that I'm trying to allocate my prep time *just perfectly.* But, it would be nice to know where you land if you have below average essays. Like what does 40/100 leave you with, does that mean you better hit 85% on the MBE?, etc..

[supervik80]

Maybe I missed something, but is torts not fair game for the essay portion of the VA bar exam?

[vthokies88]

Maybe I missed something, but is torts not fair game for the essay portion of the VA bar exam?

It's testable, but Barbri says it hasn't been tested since the summer of 2004 (and apparently tax hasn't been tested in at least 12 years).

[philippian413]

Please do not test tax.

[bsktbll28082]

I'm worried. Either, they won't test tax because they haven't in years. Or, this is the year they will test it, BECAUSE it hasn't been tested in years.

[doctoroflaw91]

I'm worried. Either, they won't test tax because they haven't in years. Or, this is the year they will test it, BECAUSE it hasn't been tested in years.

I did a couple of sessions with a tutor who specializes in the VA bar. He said forget tax. The most that they'll ask is one segment of a question (for example, whether a gross estate is taxable).

[supervik80]

Anyone do Barbri's Creditor's right essay #8 yet? (Spoiler alert, stop reading if you intend to do it later)

I talked about getting pre-judgment attachment, while you file a suit to get the PA judgment domesticated, so that the car cannot leave VA. The Barbri answer doesn't mention it, but I'm not sure why I'm wrong and frankly barbri's answer doesn't make sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

[doctoroflaw91]

Anyone do Barbri's Creditor's right essay #8 yet? (Spoiler alert, stop reading if you intend to do it later)

I talked about getting pre-judgment attachment, while you file a suit to get the PA judgment domesticated, so that the car cannot leave VA. The Barbri answer doesn't mention it, but I'm not sure why I'm wrong and frankly barbri's answer doesn't make sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

The purpose of pre-judgment attachment (at least as far as I understand it) is to lay claim to the debtor's property before the creditor ever has a judgment against the debtor, in situations where the debtor might hide the property, remove it from the jurisdiction, etc. Thus, if you get the pre-judgment writ of attachment, and THEN get the judgment, your claim is already attached to that piece of property and the debtor is on notice of the attachment.

In the essay, the creditor has already received the judgment from Pennsylvania. All he has to do is domesticate it in Virginia by filing the certified copy with the clerk's office. The judgment will be served on the debtor, thereby putting him on notice of it.

[supervik80]

Anyone do Barbri's Creditor's right essay #8 yet? (Spoiler alert, stop reading if you intend to do it later)

I talked about getting pre-judgment attachment, while you file a suit to get the PA judgment domesticated, so that the car cannot leave VA. The Barbri answer doesn't mention it, but I'm not sure why I'm wrong and frankly barbri's answer doesn't make sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

The purpose of pre-judgment attachment (at least as far as I understand it) is to lay claim to the debtor's property before the creditor ever has a judgment against the debtor, in situations where the debtor might hide the property, remove it from the jurisdiction, etc. Thus, if you get the pre-judgment writ of attachment, and THEN get the judgment, your claim is already attached to that piece of property and the debtor is on notice of the attachment.

In the essay, the creditor has already received the judgment from Pennsylvania. All he has to do is domesticate it in Virginia by filing the certified copy with the clerk's office. The judgment will be served on the debtor, thereby putting him on notice of it.

I think I see where I made the mistake. Domesticating it in virginia only means that a lien will be attached to the car, it does not mean the sheriff will take the car and sell it. Thus there is no need to get a pre-judgment attachment because by simply domesticating it, he is only getting a lien not an enforcement of the judgment. I guess its good to make these mistakes now rather than later.

[philippian413]

Anyone do Barbri's Creditor's right essay #8 yet? (Spoiler alert, stop reading if you intend to do it later)

I talked about getting pre-judgment attachment, while you file a suit to get the PA judgment domesticated, so that the car cannot leave VA. The Barbri answer doesn't mention it, but I'm not sure why I'm wrong and frankly barbri's answer doesn't make sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

The purpose of pre-judgment attachment (at least as far as I understand it) is to lay claim to the debtor's property before the creditor ever has a judgment against the debtor, in situations where the debtor might hide the property, remove it from the jurisdiction, etc. Thus, if you get the pre-judgment writ of attachment, and THEN get the judgment, your claim is already attached to that piece of property and the debtor is on notice of the attachment.

In the essay, the creditor has already received the judgment from Pennsylvania. All he has to do is domesticate it in Virginia by filing the certified copy with the clerk's office. The judgment will be served on the debtor, thereby putting him on notice of it.

I think I see where I made the mistake. Domesticating it in virginia only means that a lien will be attached to the car, it does not mean the sheriff will take the car and sell it. Thus there is no need to get a pre-judgment attachment because by simply domesticating it, he is only getting a lien not an enforcement of the judgment. I guess its good to make these mistakes now rather than later.

Correct the sheriff will sell the car minus cost's of selling, pay the creditor and excess goes back to the debtor. Also, if you went the route of pre-judgement attachment you would be asking the creditor to post a bond 2X of item be attached so your creditor who is owed $22k would need put $110k via cash bond or line of credit. Which I do not see a creditor doing that.

[supervik80]

Anyone do Barbri's Creditor's right essay #8 yet? (Spoiler alert, stop reading if you intend to do it later)

I talked about getting pre-judgment attachment, while you file a suit to get the PA judgment domesticated, so that the car cannot leave VA. The Barbri answer doesn't mention it, but I'm not sure why I'm wrong and frankly barbri's answer doesn't make sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

The purpose of pre-judgment attachment (at least as far as I understand it) is to lay claim to the debtor's property before the creditor ever has a judgment against the debtor, in situations where the debtor might hide the property, remove it from the jurisdiction, etc. Thus, if you get the pre-judgment writ of attachment, and THEN get the judgment, your claim is already attached to that piece of property and the debtor is on notice of the attachment.

In the essay, the creditor has already received the judgment from Pennsylvania. All he has to do is domesticate it in Virginia by filing the certified copy with the clerk's office. The judgment will be served on the debtor, thereby putting him on notice of it.

I think I see where I made the mistake. Domesticating it in virginia only means that a lien will be attached to the car, it does not mean the sheriff will take the car and sell it. Thus there is no need to get a pre-judgment attachment because by simply domesticating it, he is only getting a lien not an enforcement of the judgment. I guess its good to make these mistakes now rather than later.

Correct the sheriff will sell the car minus cost's of selling, pay the creditor and excess goes back to the debtor. Also, if you went the route of pre-judgement attachment you would be asking the creditor to post a bond 2X of item be attached so your creditor who is owed $22k would need put $110k via cash bond or line of credit. Which I do not see a creditor doing that.

I don't thin the sheriff's sells the car simply because you domesticated a sister state judgment, its just an attachment. The sheriff could only sell the car, once the court came out with a ruling that the judgment is enforceable in Virginia.

[philippian413]

Anyone do Barbri's Creditor's right essay #8 yet? (Spoiler alert, stop reading if you intend to do it later)

I talked about getting pre-judgment attachment, while you file a suit to get the PA judgment domesticated, so that the car cannot leave VA. The Barbri answer doesn't mention it, but I'm not sure why I'm wrong and frankly barbri's answer doesn't make sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

The purpose of pre-judgment attachment (at least as far as I understand it) is to lay claim to the debtor's property before the creditor ever has a judgment against the debtor, in situations where the debtor might hide the property, remove it from the jurisdiction, etc. Thus, if you get the pre-judgment writ of attachment, and THEN get the judgment, your claim is already attached to that piece of property and the debtor is on notice of the attachment.

In the essay, the creditor has already received the judgment from Pennsylvania. All he has to do is domesticate it in Virginia by filing the certified copy with the clerk's office. The judgment will be served on the debtor, thereby putting him on notice of it.

I think I see where I made the mistake. Domesticating it in virginia only means that a lien will be attached to the car, it does not mean the sheriff will take the car and sell it. Thus there is no need to get a pre-judgment attachment because by simply domesticating it, he is only getting a lien not an enforcement of the judgment. I guess its good to make these mistakes now rather than later.

Correct the sheriff will sell the car minus cost's of selling, pay the creditor and excess goes back to the debtor. Also, if you went the route of pre-judgement attachment you would be asking the creditor to post a bond 2X of item be attached so your creditor who is owed $22k would need put $110k via cash bond or line of credit. Which I do not see a creditor doing that.

I don't thin the sheriff's sells the car simply because you domesticated a sister state judgment, its just an attachment. The sheriff could only sell the car, once the court came out with a ruling that the judgment is enforceable in Virginia.

The sheriff will only go out to the garage/location of the car to levy only once court enters a writ from the clerk of the court. Sheriff goes with the writ and need to seize the car and then sells. Then pays costs, creditor and debtor if any excess.

[supervik80]

Question about the grading of the bar exam.

Passing score is 140, 60% essays, 40% MBE.

The average scaled score on the MBE is 140, and the bar examiners state that they scale the essays so that that the average score is 140. So it seems to me that if you do average on the MBE and average on the essays, you will pass but by the skin of your teeth. However, the pass rate is 70%. Something doesn't seem right about that. If 70% are passing, doesn't that mean you could do below average on both the MBE and the essays and still pass? What am I missing?

[philippian413]

It seems like a low threshold to pass but getting there is difficult. Look at last percentage rate of passing I believe under 60%.

[ironbmike]

Question about the grading of the bar exam.

Passing score is 140, 60% essays, 40% MBE.

The average scaled score on the MBE is 140, and the bar examiners state that they scale the essays so that that the average score is 140. So it seems to me that if you do average on the MBE and average on the essays, you will pass but by the skin of your teeth. However, the pass rate is 70%. Something doesn't seem right about that. If 70% are passing, doesn't that mean you could do below average on both the MBE and the essays and still pass? What am I missing?

I've wondered this too. If the scores are scaled to average, and the pass rate is the scaled 140, then how do 50%+ pass? I must be missing something.

[vthokies88]

Question about the grading of the bar exam.

Passing score is 140, 60% essays, 40% MBE.

The average scaled score on the MBE is 140, and the bar examiners state that they scale the essays so that that the average score is 140. So it seems to me that if you do average on the MBE and average on the essays, you will pass but by the skin of your teeth. However, the pass rate is 70%. Something doesn't seem right about that. If 70% are passing, doesn't that mean you could do below average on both the MBE and the essays and still pass? What am I missing?

I've wondered this too. If the scores are scaled to average, and the pass rate is the scaled 140, then how do 50%+ pass? I must be missing something.

140 is the average, not the median, and having a below average score on one part can be made up with a better score on another part