Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam Forum

[austinmom]

For the simulated MBE, I went over the answer explanations on my own. I skipped the videos entirely. I find reading the explanations helpful.

Back in the day when I did PMBR for a 3day MBE workshop (2007? 2008?), it was excruciatingly painful to have to sit through a video in an auditorium listening to the explanations when I already understood. It was such a great way for me to lose interest.

[Lemon Lyman]

I'm not hitting the 70% "Goal" for these mixed MBE sets. Starting to panic because there's not much time left to make gains on top of learning state material. Anyone else having this problem?

[left shark]

Same here. They're getting harder, which I am hoping means they're just trying to force us into thinking about the pickier areas and the second and third layer exceptions.

I don't remember from before, but I'm hoping not all of the actual MBE questions are in this difficulty range. Just gonna keep doing my one set a day and hope that in reading the explanations stuff will stick. I don't have time to drill that crap anymore.

[Gamecubesupreme]

Every time I see a Real Property problem, my mind goes blank. The fact that they are almost always the longest ones doesn't help either.

Seriously considering just punting this subject and focus on the other 6 MBE topics. I'll just make sure I get the questions on landlord/tenants right and hope for the best on interests and mortgages.

Anyone else doing similar strategies?

[Lemon Lyman]

Same here. They're getting harder, which I am hoping means they're just trying to force us into thinking about the pickier areas and the second and third layer exceptions.

I don't remember from before, but I'm hoping not all of the actual MBE questions are in this difficulty range. Just gonna keep doing my one set a day and hope that in reading the explanations stuff will stick. I don't have time to drill that crap anymore.

Ok glad I'm not the only one feeling that way too. Some of these questions are ridiculous.

Unfortunately I've put extra pressure on my MBE with how unprepared I am for the essays. For some of the state topics, all I'll know is what's covered in the practice essays.

This is not where I wanted to be a week out..

[left shark]

Every time I see a Real Property problem, my mind goes blank. The fact that they are almost always the longest ones doesn't help either.

Seriously considering just punting this subject and focus on the other 6 MBE topics. I'll just make sure I get the questions on landlord/tenants right and hope for the best on interests and mortgages.

Anyone else doing similar strategies?

I have come to accept that I will never, ever, ever get a wild animals question correct. Ever.

Don't know why. I've studied it, I've written the rule. Every time I think I have it...I don't. Bye, wild animals. Scare/bite/trip/whatever whomever you want, I'm not gonna sue you because I don't care. Your victim probably deserved it.

[left shark]

Same here. They're getting harder, which I am hoping means they're just trying to force us into thinking about the pickier areas and the second and third layer exceptions.

I don't remember from before, but I'm hoping not all of the actual MBE questions are in this difficulty range. Just gonna keep doing my one set a day and hope that in reading the explanations stuff will stick. I don't have time to drill that crap anymore.

Ok glad I'm not the only one feeling that way too. Some of these questions are ridiculous.

Unfortunately I've put extra pressure on my MBE with how unprepared I am for the essays. For some of the state topics, all I'll know is what's covered in the practice essays.

This is not where I wanted to be a week out..

I know, me either. My MBE in July was ABYSMAL. Just completely pathetic. So I have focused on it to the detriment of my essays and P&E.

But all is not lost. We can still make good use of the 7-ish days left.

[rvp20]

I'm sometimes hitting 70%+ but generally somewhere above 60%, which I'm happy about. Trying to keep this momentum going as I go.

As for "skipping" real property, I would highly suggest NOT doing it, especially considering that real property is projected to be a MEE subject this time.

I hate those long RP questions too, but I think Themis lecturer (that Lisa lady) has a good point about them. Unless the answer is obvious to you, make an educated guess and move on--not worth the mental anguish and time which can be used productively elsewhere.

[JimmyBee]

Took Themis for July 2015. Took Bar for first time after graduating 25 years ago. Passed. I was hitting 70% on the MBE practice tests. I didn't blow the Bar out. My MBE score was 137.5. A friend who took Themis the year before had a hard time breaking 70%, and passed with the exact same score. I also found the actual questions, including property, easier when I sat. Keep taking them and reading the answers after each one. Remember these scores are scaled in the end.

In terms of the essays, Themis boils it down. Just learn the big rules and concepts for each topic. Reduce everything you need to know down to a page or two for each subject. They care about the forest enough that they'll overlook if you make up the leaves as long as you make the argument in a way that makes sense. Anyway, you'll soak in more leaves than you'd think. Do the IRAC thing religiously. Remember that getting a rule wrong or making one up but applying it to the facts in the right way will get you points. Just sound like a competent lawyer.

[objxtn]

Is it just me or are the Themis civ pro MBE's extremely difficult? I have been getting 65-84% on other subjects but am hovering around 55% or so on civ pro...

[ihatethetexasbar]

Do the Themis MBE questions get harder as you keep going? Or focus on what you miss? I'm doing the mixed 100 sets.

[left shark]

Do the Themis MBE questions get harder as you keep going? Or focus on what you miss? I'm doing the mixed 100 sets.

They absolutely do get harder. And the goal gets higher too. I don't know if the questions are tailored to our individual weak points or not, but they are definitely pickier questions.

[swtlilsoni]

Does anyone know if the conclusion we arrive at on the essays matters?

Some of the topics can be argued either way I feel, and on some of the essay questions, I found one way where the model answer found the other way. Is it like in law school where as long as you do a proper rule, and analysis, you are fine? Or do they actually care that you have the correct result..

[rvp20]

Took Themis for July 2015. Took Bar for first time after graduating 25 years ago. Passed. I was hitting 70% on the MBE practice tests. I didn't blow the Bar out. My MBE score was 137.5. A friend who took Themis the year before had a hard time breaking 70%, and passed with the exact same score. I also found the actual questions, including property, easier when I sat. Keep taking them and reading the answers after each one. Remember these scores are scaled in the end.

In terms of the essays, Themis boils it down. Just learn the big rules and concepts for each topic. Reduce everything you need to know down to a page or two for each subject. They care about the forest enough that they'll overlook if you make up the leaves as long as you make the argument in a way that makes sense. Anyway, you'll soak in more leaves than you'd think. Do the IRAC thing religiously. Remember that getting a rule wrong or making one up but applying it to the facts in the right way will get you points. Just sound like a competent lawyer.

Thanks for the advice.

Assuming you did all the practice essay question (not write it all out, but at least read/outline), did you find a "surprise" in the actual MEE or whichever state you took? I just want to gauge whether not knowing the rules in one or two subparts of the MEE/essay would still result in an OK score.

Of course, I'm planning to make up the rule with some cheesy terms like "good-faith" "reasonableness" "discretion of the court" etc. etc. in the actual questions, but I find it hard to believe that an average score on the MEE = knew all the rule statements.

[left shark]

Does anyone know if the conclusion we arrive at on the essays matters?

Some of the topics can be argued either way I feel, and on some of the essay questions, I found one way where the model answer found the other way. Is it like in law school where as long as you do a proper rule, and analysis, you are fine? Or do they actually care that you have the correct result..

Sad to say that it does matter. One of the criteria on the grade sheet is "Answer did not give accurate conclusion or result." Now, if you get the wrong conclusion but otherwise identify rules and apply facts to those rules, then you'll get points, but they are definitely looking for "right" answers.


edited to add: I should have said that this is on the review sheet for the Texas bar. Forgot I wasn't in the Saloon

[juniormint33]

Can someone please explain to me how one obtains title to a suit?

[+] Spoiler

Question Text:
A man shopping in a department store found a suit that he liked but could not afford. He noticed that the store had a system for identifying sale merchandise: all merchandise with a sticky red label on the tag was 50% off the original price. The man then went to an office supply store and purchased a set of identical labels. He returned to the department store with one of the labels, and placed the label on the suit’s price tag. The man then took the suit to the register, paid the reduced price for the suit, and took the suit home. Of which one of the following crimes should the man be convicted?

Answer Choices:
Forgery
Embezzlement
Larceny by trick
False pretenses
Learner Selected Answer:
Larceny by trick

Correct:
Correct Answer:
False pretenses

Rationale:
Answer choice D is correct. The crime of false pretenses occurs when an individual (i) obtains title to property (ii) of another person (iii) through the reliance of that person (iv) on a known false representation of a material past or present fact (v) and the representation is made with the intent to defraud. All elements of the crime are implicated in the man’s conduct of paying the discounted price for the suit—he obtained legal title to the suit through fraudulent means. Answer choice A is incorrect because forgery requires the making of a false writing with apparent legal significance such as a check or a contract. Here, the red label lacked legal significance. Answer choice B is incorrect because embezzlement occurs when a defendant originally held the property pursuant to a formal or informal trust agreement. No such agreement took place here. Answer choice C is incorrect because larceny by trick involves obtaining the mere possession of another’s property. Here, the man obtained not only possession of the suit, but full title as well.

Subject Outline: Mbe Criminal Law
Chapter: Other Crimes
Section: Crimes Against Property

[left shark]

Can someone please explain to me how one obtains title to a suit?

The way I thought of it when I got that question (there's another about a ring, too) is that the guy did what a person does when they want to own something- they take it off the rack and pay for it at a register. The way he paid the amount he did was the dishonest part, but he gave money for a thing, so he owns it. He didn't try it on and put his own clothes over it and walk out the door.

I hope that is helpful? At the very least I hope it isn't detrimental.

[JimmyBee]

With regard to the query of rvp20 to my earlier post, you will definitely be surprised. There are smaller issues that come up, but I found that if you know the major and even minor rules, you'll get by. Remember, you just need a D-on this exam.

One tactic I found useful was that I had a willing non-lawyer, non-legal student who may not have been formally educated and for some reason had the interest and bandwidth. At the end, I went with my pages and lectured my way through all of the subjects. Verbalizing things and being forced to deal with questions she thought were "stupid" really helped. We made a joke about something involving Wills, and then the issue came up as a sub issue on the exam. I took NY, so there are a lot of state subjects.

I found it useful to write out as many of the practice essays as possibles with the clock running. Familiarity with the process definitely takes away the jitters. Nothing like opening the booklet and not feeling surprised. Many people were surprised in NY by the topic area of one of the essays, but I had read and outlined all the Themis-provided questions, and realized that all of the questions in this particular NY-centric topic dealt with one set of rules. It's like in Torts — "duty, breach, harm" will get you 65% there.

Don't ignore the MPT. Do as many as you can on the clock. I found it harder to get everything done in time than I thought I would, having been a professional writer. Plus, there are so many forms of work product that they could ask for your answer in, you should try to get a sense of what a model answer in each one looks like. This is really only helpful if you spent the time outlining the answer first. I know it's a small part of the grade, but every little bit counts. As I've said in other forums, the work product they asked for in July 2015 was much more comfortable for me than just about any other piece of work product, so I was fortunate that way.

[Gamecubesupreme]

It's starting to piss me off when I get MBE questions wrong on the Mixed Sets not because I didn't know the law, but because either misread the question or missed a fact in the question.

Those are rookie mistakes I keep making on easy questions and it's really frustrating because I don't know what to I can do to prevent that from happening on test day. I know most of the laws cold, but I keep getting tripped up on little things and it is really starting to get to me.

[JimmyBee]

Gamecubesupreme, that's exactly what the practice and explanations are for. The more MBE practice you do, you'll see what facts you missed or how you misread the question. You're in a good position. Really sounds like you need to get to the point where you can read all the questions twice. It sounds obvious but actually moving your mouth as you read the questions to form out the words, each and every one, will solve your issue. You're just skating your eyes over because of your confidence with the material.

D-minus

[RetakeFTW]

Does anyone know if the conclusion we arrive at on the essays matters?

Some of the topics can be argued either way I feel, and on some of the essay questions, I found one way where the model answer found the other way. Is it like in law school where as long as you do a proper rule, and analysis, you are fine? Or do they actually care that you have the correct result..

Sad to say that it does matter. One of the criteria on the grade sheet is "Answer did not give accurate conclusion or result." Now, if you get the wrong conclusion but otherwise identify rules and apply facts to those rules, then you'll get points, but they are definitely looking for "right" answers.


edited to add: I should have said that this is on the review sheet for the Texas bar. Forgot I wasn't in the Saloon

Would also like to point out on the statutory essay questions there is definitely a right and wrong answer. (Family Law Ex. 1 child = 20% of obligor's resources up to $8550. On the other hand, what is "just and right" there's some leeway.) Yet another example of why I hate this test.

[KTnKT]

Does anyone know if the conclusion we arrive at on the essays matters?

Some of the topics can be argued either way I feel, and on some of the essay questions, I found one way where the model answer found the other way. Is it like in law school where as long as you do a proper rule, and analysis, you are fine? Or do they actually care that you have the correct result..

Sad to say that it does matter. One of the criteria on the grade sheet is "Answer did not give accurate conclusion or result." Now, if you get the wrong conclusion but otherwise identify rules and apply facts to those rules, then you'll get points, but they are definitely looking for "right" answers.


edited to add: I should have said that this is on the review sheet for the Texas bar. Forgot I wasn't in the Saloon

Would also like to point out on the statutory essay questions there is definitely a right and wrong answer. (Family Law Ex. 1 child = 20% of obligor's resources up to $8550. On the other hand, what is "just and right" there's some leeway.) Yet another example of why I hate this test.

I also noticed a bit of leeway in the partnership essays regarding enforceability of partnership agreement clauses. Two essays had a similar clause, one felt that it went to far and the other thought it was fine. Same basic analysis/law.

[Hodor33]

So, I've been working while studying and have just kind of been doing my own thing whilst using Themis' resources. I took the AM Simulated MBE today just to do some more questions and got 65/100. It says that the average was 64/100, but everyone else took this exam almost two weeks ago.

Am I in an alright spot, or am I justified in going into freak out mode?

EDIT: Also, I did pretty much the same across all subject areas (doesn't really give me a place to focus on)

Crim/CrimPro: 8/14
Contracts: 9/15
Evidence: 11/15
Torts: 7/13
CivPro: 9/14
RP: 12/15
Con: 9/14

So maybe go ham on Torts and Crim this weekend?

[Gamecubesupreme]

So, I've been working while studying and have just kind of been doing my own thing whilst using Themis' resources. I took the AM Simulated MBE today just to do some more questions and got 65/100. It says that the average was 64/100, but everyone else took this exam almost two weeks ago.

Am I in an alright spot, or am I justified in going into freak out mode?

EDIT: Also, I did pretty much the same across all subject areas (doesn't really give me a place to focus on)

Crim/CrimPro: 8/14
Contracts: 9/15
Evidence: 11/15
Torts: 7/13
CivPro: 9/14
RP: 12/15
Con: 9/14

So maybe go ham on Torts and Crim this weekend?

Pretty much what I got. The afternoon session is slightly harder, so if you can still score 60% on that, you're in good shape MBE wise.

[Hodor33]

Pretty much what I got. The afternoon session is slightly harder, so if you can still score 60% on that, you're in good shape MBE wise.

Welp, I got 57/100. So I'm officially freaking out a bit. Oh well, I'm reviewing essay stuff for the next couple of days. Can't really do too much about it within the next couple of days.

I definitely found that half much harder (even though my score wasn't that different. Definitely some WTF questions.