Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Tanicius]

I love how Pam Karlan keeps trying to assure me that "this won't be tested" on the exam because "it would be very difficult to come up with a fact pattern for that." Pam, I would welcome your sober logic onto the MBE authoring teams, because unfortunately it's a very unique quality of yours.

Most of the time these "rules that won't be tested" in fact are tested by hiding a reason for the correct answer in a sea of other facts and deliberately trying to trick us into thinking the issue is about something more visible and complex.

[bedefan]

Themis brethren: Is there any consensus on the MBE questions regarding difficulty relative to the questions we will encounter on the Bar?

Just curious because Themis says the goal is 50% . . .

The 50% goal is where you should be right now. You definitely don't want to be only getting 50% correct on the actual exam. That would be below the 1%ile. See second to last chart: https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts

On a related note, I was pumped by DesertFox's post described how we only need to score in the 60th percentile for auto pass. That's great, BUT the 60th percentile requires 81% of the questions correct! That's a damn good score.

Just to correct the bolded parts above: that second-to-last chart lists scaled scores. Looking at the first chart IL provides (which shows raw score percentiles by MBE subject), getting a raw score of 50% across the board (i.e. 16-17 correct in each subject) would put you in the 6th or 7th percentile, not the 1st percentile.

And because this is IL we're talking about, if you scored in the 6th or 7th percentile on the MBE, you would just need to combine that with about the 50th percentile on the essay section to pass. (6th or 7th percentile = 120-125 scaled score for MBE, meaning you need 140-145 on the essay portion, which the chart indicates is about the 50th percentile.)

This also means that hitting the fabled 60th percentile on the MBE (and punching your ticket to a near-guaranteed pass) should require a raw score of 70-75% correct, not 81%. Still hard. But not so hard.

Obviously the best thing to do is be ready to excel on all of it. But as someone who is way behind due to circumstances beyond my control, I'm taking a little comfort in this.

[Genuine4ps]

Themis brethren: Is there any consensus on the MBE questions regarding difficulty relative to the questions we will encounter on the Bar?

Just curious because Themis says the goal is 50% . . .

The 50% goal is where you should be right now. You definitely don't want to be only getting 50% correct on the actual exam. That would be below the 1%ile. See second to last chart: https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts

On a related note, I was pumped by DesertFox's post described how we only need to score in the 60th percentile for auto pass. That's great, BUT the 60th percentile requires 81% of the questions correct! That's a damn good score.

Just to correct the bolded parts above: that second-to-last chart lists scaled scores. Looking at the first chart IL provides (which shows raw score percentiles by MBE subject), getting a raw score of 50% across the board (i.e. 16-17 correct in each subject) would put you in the 6th or 7th percentile, not the 1st percentile.

And because this is IL we're talking about, if you scored in the 6th or 7th percentile on the MBE, you would just need to combine that with about the 50th percentile on the essay section to pass. (6th or 7th percentile = 120-125 scaled score for MBE, meaning you need 140-145 on the essay portion, which the chart indicates is about the 50th percentile.)

This also means that hitting the fabled 60th percentile on the MBE (and punching your ticket to a near-guaranteed pass) should require a raw score of 70-75% correct, not 81%. Still hard. But not so hard.

Obviously the best thing to do is be ready to excel on all of it. But as someone who is way behind due to circumstances beyond my control, I'm taking a little comfort in this.

Thanks for the correction and clarification.

[swfangirl]

Now that I've come close to catching up, I'm getting assigned like 3 hours of work a day. Wut.

[puttycake]

Evidence essays are the debbil.

[SilverE2]

There's something about the various Themis professors telling me to do my assessment questions that really drives me up a wall. Some plead, "Please do your assessment questions." Some threaten, "You better do your assessment questions!" And some merely remind you, "Don't forget those assessment questions..." But the best by far are those who don't mention the questions at all. So, hats off to you, Professors Geis and Clark. We know there are assessment questions, you know there are assessment questions, and it's better for the both of us if you just don't mention them.

[Genuine4ps]

There's something about the various Themis professors telling me to do my assessment questions that really drives me up a wall. Some plead, "Please do your assessment questions." Some threaten, "You better do your assessment questions!" And some merely remind you, "Don't forget those assessment questions..." But the best by far are those who don't mention the questions at all. So, hats off to you, Professors Geis and Clark. We know there are assessment questions, you know there are assessment questions, and it's better for the both of us if you just don't mention them.

Are you talking about the questions directly after each lecture chapter? I thought you had to do those before you could advance.

[Genuine4ps]

Now that I've come close to catching up, I'm getting assigned like 3 hours of work a day. Wut.

I'm behind as well. How did you go about catching up? Did you just do an extra assignment a day or something?

[SilverE2]

There's something about the various Themis professors telling me to do my assessment questions that really drives me up a wall. Some plead, "Please do your assessment questions." Some threaten, "You better do your assessment questions!" And some merely remind you, "Don't forget those assessment questions..." But the best by far are those who don't mention the questions at all. So, hats off to you, Professors Geis and Clark. We know there are assessment questions, you know there are assessment questions, and it's better for the both of us if you just don't mention them.

Are you talking about the questions directly after each lecture chapter? I thought you had to do those before you could advance.

You do. I just hate being reminded to do them.

[bport hopeful]

Got a 60% on my first milestone. Below the average, but hit the goal...so I guess I'll take it. Also got 13/17 right on real property, which has been my worst subject so...that's weird.

Do they give you a goal on the milestones or are you just assuming 50%?

[SilverE2]

Got a 60% on my first milestone. Below the average, but hit the goal...so I guess I'll take it. Also got 13/17 right on real property, which has been my worst subject so...that's weird.

Do they give you a goal on the milestones or are you just assuming 50%?

They do give you a goal, goal is 60% for the milestone.

[bport hopeful]

Got a 60% on my first milestone. Below the average, but hit the goal...so I guess I'll take it. Also got 13/17 right on real property, which has been my worst subject so...that's weird.

Do they give you a goal on the milestones or are you just assuming 50%?

They do give you a goal, goal is 60% for the milestone.

Hmm. Must have missed this.

[hous]

Now that I've come close to catching up, I'm getting assigned like 3 hours of work a day. Wut.

I feel like im getting less stuff too but im not caught up yet. I'm only at 41% now.

[Prime]

Now that I've come close to catching up, I'm getting assigned like 3 hours of work a day. Wut.

I feel like im getting less stuff too but im not caught up yet. I'm only at 41% now.

Seems to go in cycles.

[lawyerwannabe]

Has there been a consensus on whether Themis questions are of the same difficulty level as the MBE bar questions? Most of the questions do not seem very hard and I don't want to lull myself into a false sense of security . . .

[SilverE2]

Now that I've come close to catching up, I'm getting assigned like 3 hours of work a day. Wut.

I feel like im getting less stuff too but im not caught up yet. I'm only at 41% now.

"Only at 41%...."

You're like 2 percent off where you should be. Some people here are 20% off.

[numbertwo88]

Did anyone's attorney advisor - in MA or elsewhere - tell you to skip everything in directed study, for now, and to focus on completing the MBE subjects? I'm about 10% behind presently, around 34%. Didn't begin bar prep until June 1st as I wanted to take a week off after graduation.

I'm aiming to finish the major lectures this weekend and then push forward as scheduled in the directed study schedule.

[Genuine4ps]

Now that I've come close to catching up, I'm getting assigned like 3 hours of work a day. Wut.

I feel like im getting less stuff too but im not caught up yet. I'm only at 41% now.

"Only at 41%...."

You're like 2 percent off where you should be. Some people here are 20% off.

(awkwardly raises hand)

[Genuine4ps]

Did anyone's attorney advisor - in MA or elsewhere - tell you to skip everything in directed study, for now, and to focus on completing the MBE subjects? I'm about 10% behind presently, around 34%. Didn't begin bar prep until June 1st as I wanted to take a week off after graduation.

I'm aiming to finish the major lectures this weekend and then push forward as scheduled in the directed study schedule.

Mine didn't, and I'm further behind than you.

I don't understand why your instructor would say that. Directed study forces you to focus on the MBE subjects anyway, right?

[Tanicius]

Did anyone's attorney advisor - in MA or elsewhere - tell you to skip everything in directed study, for now, and to focus on completing the MBE subjects? I'm about 10% behind presently, around 34%. Didn't begin bar prep until June 1st as I wanted to take a week off after graduation.

I'm aiming to finish the major lectures this weekend and then push forward as scheduled in the directed study schedule.

Mine didn't, and I'm further behind than you.

I don't understand why your instructor would say that. Directed study forces you to focus on the MBE subjects anyway, right?

Mine randomly had me take a detour last week to learn Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. I'm kind of glad I had some time to ease into those two particular subjects, just because they speak languages that I'm not fluent in. I've never taken Family Law, but at least the terms should be readily understandable to me just a week out from the test.

[lawyerwannabe]

Did anyone's attorney advisor - in MA or elsewhere - tell you to skip everything in directed study, for now, and to focus on completing the MBE subjects? I'm about 10% behind presently, around 34%. Didn't begin bar prep until June 1st as I wanted to take a week off after graduation.

I'm aiming to finish the major lectures this weekend and then push forward as scheduled in the directed study schedule.

Mine didn't, and I'm further behind than you.

I don't understand why your instructor would say that. Directed study forces you to focus on the MBE subjects anyway, right?

Mine randomly had me take a detour last week to learn Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. I'm kind of glad I had some time to ease into those two particular subjects, just because they speak languages that I'm not fluent in. I've never taken Family Law, but at least the terms should be readily understandable to me just a week out from the test.

Should I have received some personal message from my adviser by now? I have not gotten any non-broadcast messages or phone calls to date.

[numbertwo88]

Mine didn't, and I'm further behind than you.

I don't understand why your instructor would say that. Directed study forces you to focus on the MBE subjects anyway, right?

My directed study was perhaps 60 MBE/40 State and too many practice essays to count. Also told to skip those until I finished with the MBE lectures.

[bedefan]

Has there been a consensus on whether Themis questions are of the same difficulty level as the MBE bar questions? Most of the questions do not seem very hard and I don't want to lull myself into a false sense of security . . .

If you poke around earlier in the thread (or maybe it's elsewhere on TLS?) you can find some whispers about this topic. What I recall is a report of one person complaining because the Themis PQ's were too hard and threw him/her off. But I haven't found the PQ's that hard myself (provided I've studied well!). FWIW, my experience using the Themis MPRE PQ's is that they were noticeably easier than the real ones.

[Tanicius]

Mine randomly had me take a detour last week to learn Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. I'm kind of glad I had some time to ease into those two particular subjects, just because they speak languages that I'm not fluent in. I've never taken Family Law, but at least the terms should be readily understandable to me just a week out from the test.

Should I have received some personal message from my adviser by now? I have not gotten any non-broadcast messages or phone calls to date.

No no, I'm talking about my automatic directed study.

[bedefan]

Did anyone's attorney advisor - in MA or elsewhere - tell you to skip everything in directed study, for now, and to focus on completing the MBE subjects? I'm about 10% behind presently, around 34%. Didn't begin bar prep until June 1st as I wanted to take a week off after graduation.

I'm aiming to finish the major lectures this weekend and then push forward as scheduled in the directed study schedule.

Somebody from IL (don't remember if it was the director or my atty advisor) told me to damn the torpedoes and just focus on getting the MBE subjects at this point. I'm waaaay behind so I haven't used directed study at all though.