William and Mary - Marshall Wythe School of Law Forum

TLS_user · Post by **TLS_user** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:52 pm

Law School Programs >> Virginia Law Schools

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William and Mary - Marshall Wythe School of Law (LinkRemoved) is located in Williamsburg, VA. It appears on the Top Law Schools Rankings page.

Please "post a reply" and add any comments you have about the WM School of Law. Many generations of prospective law students will benefit by the information you share.

Post by **lishi** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:33 pm

Does anyone want to share anything they know about William & Mary. How do they place in VA?? Any other great things I should know??

Grad_Student · Post by **Grad_Student** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:37 am

Congrats kiddo, you earned it.

Post by **lishi** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:54 am

Thanks, I want to know others opinions too because I don't really know anything about it.

greygoose · Post by **greygoose** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:03 am

lishi, i don't have much, but when i visited they had fact sheet about placement, etc. I definitely recommend you visit the school as it is awesome!

johnyk · Post by **johnyk** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:05 am

heres a link to get basic info about W&M with placement and all those types of facts (sorry if you have already knew about it):
--LinkRemoved--

Personally, I don't know a lot about the school specifically regarding facts. But, from growing up in Northern VA and talking to several local lawyers, I have learned W&M is a really respected school in VA and D.C.

With that said, I do think you should take note of the growing reputation of George Mason. Not to mention the schools located in the District.

M51 · Post by **M51** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:14 am

They place well in VA and DC (lots of DC ties). I think 90%+ of your classmates will be eventually working in VA/DC. Clerkship rates aren't bad either if you end up at the top of the class.

No bars, the delis (bar replacements) aren't that great either. Social life revolves around room parties and I've seen enough grad students at the UG parties to know that grad social life is probably even poorer than UG social life (which is fairly stale to begin with). That's not to say you won't have a lot of fun, it'll just be the type of fun you can't really explain to your city friends

If you're a small-town girl, you'll love it here. Mostly, you'll love the weather, the scenery, and the people. You'll hate the rain, the city, and the tourists. The people really make this place great though. Oh, and we finally got a movie theater 2 years ago (yay!). Before that, we had to drive to Newport News.

Any specific questions about the College, ask away! And congrats once again on the admit!

Shields932 · Post by **Shields932** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:57 pm

Well, since I just finished my first semester there as of today, I can tell you a bit about W&M. The school does place well in VA from what I understand and DC (I wouldn't say its 90%). A lot of 3Ls I know have got good jobs in the surrounding area (TN, DE, NC, NY, and Florida). Only about 35% end up in VA after graduation-most people from out of state end up going back.

If that is not enough of sale for W&M we do have the most technologically advance court room in the WORLD and we are the oldest law school in the country (you'll here these things over and over again if you come). Send me message if you want to know more.

Post by **lishi** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:38 pm

I have a couple questions that I would like some more opinions on.

1) How does William & Mary do in areas outside of Va and DC??

2) How do W&M students to in the job market against UVA and W&L??

3) How's the weather??

4) Is ther a lot of compeition?? I know they will be some competition everywhere, but I don't want a place where I have to worry about students stealing books or anything.

iwasgoingtobeasenator · Post by **iwasgoingtobeasenator** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:46 pm

FYI,
I visited there last year and I absolutely loved it. The area is gorgeous, and the attention they put into you as a prospective applicant far surpasses UVa and W&L. An assistant dean of admissions toured me personally for nearly an hour, and he was absolutely fantastic too. Scholarships seem generous, and the adjusted tuition can be very easy to deal with. However, if you are a qualified applicant at W&M you have other great options too, which makes committing to W&M difficult. Personally, if I don't find my way into a top 20 school, It would be my top choice.

Post by **lishi** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:53 pm

Yeah I would like to schedule a visit of the school for this January so I can get a better idea of the school. It's just always nice to hear other people's experiences or opinions.

M51 · Post by **M51** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:14 pm

1) How does William & Mary do in areas outside of Va and DC??
Despite what the LS tries to tell you, it's the same as any LS outside of T14... for the most part unless you're top of the class your prospects are only the best in the surrounding area (VA/DC).

2) How do W&M students to in the job market against UVA and W&L??
While it's not the powerhouse UVA is, it can certain compete (and I would say top) W&L. You'll be more than fine if you feel comfortable in VA/DC.

3) How's the weather??
When it's good, it's great. When it's not good, it's feels like the rain will never stop. But, it's beautiful either way, and very warm. Last week, we had a day in the 70s. From the perspective of a northerner, the weather's a lot better down here than in the tri-state area.

And to second what the other guy said, WM does coddle all of their students... the admin works WITH the students and not just on their behalf.

Shields932 · Post by **Shields932** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:16 pm

1) How does William & Mary do in areas outside of Va and DC??

Most of the 2Ls and 3Ls I have talked to have done pretty well in terms of landing firm jobs inside and out of VA. I am just starting my job search right now that exams are over so I can't speak from personal experience just yet. Most of the students who come here go back home and don't have too much trouble finding jobs from what I understand (as long as their grades are good).

2) How do W&M students to in the job market against UVA and W&L??

Obviously UVA is the top school in the state, but if you are interested in working in VA going to W&M will not hurt your chances. I think only 12-15% graduates from what I could remember actually stay in VA.

W&L is technically ranked higher than W&M, but it is located in the middle f***ing nowhere. I am not saying Williamsburg's a big urban city, but compared to where W&L is located-it is like a night and day comparison. This is not to say W&L is not a good school, but W&M is better.

3) How's the weather??

Hot as hell in the summer due to the humidity. Cold in the winter, little snow.

4) Is ther a lot of compeition?? I know they will be some competition everywhere, but I don't want a place where I have to worry about students stealing books or anything.

Most of the people who you consider gunners are more the quiet type who never go out, but there is an assortment of idiots who love to speak out in class who want to act as if they know something.[/b]

johnyk · Post by **johnyk** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:28 pm

Shields932: What about GMU ?? I agree W&M places better than W&L, but I would think your biggest competition is from Mason. I may be completely wrong though. I am curious what you have experienced.

joebruin2.0 · Post by **joebruin2.0** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:45 pm

Ok, I'm going to blow the lid off this thread...
I'm also a 1L just finishing my first semester at good ol' W&M... and these are my thoughts.

First, the "legal skills" program is a bunch of crap- basically they hire part-time professors who have normal jobs being lawyers to read lessons out of a book and assign make-believe clients and memo assignments. It's Pass/Fail and if you show-up and turn-in a steaming pile of crap... you'll pass (so don't waist time on things that are "legal skills" course related... worry about the other 3 real classes). Day one I had a wise 2L fill me in on the "legal skills" situation... didn't believe him at first... now I am a true believer.

Second, Competition is competition, the grade is curved (and a gentle curve to say the least... B+ average). So just remeber that everyone here is about as smart as everyone else so grades are kind of a crap-shoot. No true explanation for why some get As and some Cs... I believe the 2Ls equate it to a professor throwing all the papers down the stairs and some stairs earn As and some get Bs (while about 15% get Cs).

Finally, concerning rankings, expect them to drop next year, our yield went down, acceptances went up, GPA and LSAT scores dropped. We are currently 31... and I see us going to about 35 this year... GMU will surpass us.

I'm not trying to come off bitter, just honest. I came here expecting much more- and I feel a bit cheated.... Lots of sizzle, not much meat.
I feel the people at the school do a good job "talking-it-up"... but the reality isn't nearly as sexy as the hype.

Sorry if I come-off blunt... I wish someone would have been so blunt with me!

ok, those are my 2-cents

Shields932 · Post by **Shields932** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:26 pm

I have to agree with everything Joe said. GMU looks like it is catching up. When I came to W&M, I thought we were on the rise, but apparently not. Btw, like Joe do not believe the hype about the legal skills program in the brochure. EVERY 1L knows by Now Legal Skills is bullshit. W&M is still a very good school, try to visit first before making a decision.

joebruin2.0 · Post by **joebruin2.0** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:29 pm

Thanks Shields... I was feeling like the total dick until you backed me up.

lol, looking back, W&M... not the best decision I've ever made

Shields932 · Post by **Shields932** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:49 pm

Lishi, now that you have heard all of these wonderful things about W&M from 2 current students. I think you know what you have to do.......................................apply to GMU. (just kidding

)

johnyk · Post by **johnyk** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:59 pm

hahaha....yeah, this is about what i have heard as well

Fly · Post by **Fly** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:44 pm

One of the reasons I find W&M intriguing is the Institute of Bill of Rights Law. Anyone have any comments on that? I have a strong interest in Constitutional Law, so this seems pretty neat (I would love to be a part of the Bill of Rights law review, too -- I think W&M is the only school other than Penn that I applied to that has a Con Law review.)

Joe - Thanks for your honesty. Do you have any reason to think that W&M's legal skills program is any more ridiculous than other schools'? One of the cons of W&M for me (even before I read your comments) is that the legal skills program drags on so long. It looks like Mason has some similar requirements (legal research, writing, and analysis I and II; Appellate Writing, Legal Drafting, Professional Responsibility). Any reason to believe that would be any less disappointing? Also, I'm not thrilled with Mason's economics requirement. I really couldn't care less about the economic foundations of legal study. Each school has pros and cons; assuming I get into GMU, I'll have some trouble deciding.

joebruin2.0 · Post by **joebruin2.0** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:33 pm

Ok... I'm back and in a better mood... finals are behind me now and I'm returning to being a normal human-being.

Ok, first, I'll list some good things about W&M.
Great college town environment (don't worry about not having a big party scene... you won't be partying much... TRUST ME ON THIS), sleepy town with lots of history and a very pretty campus.

Second, brand spanking new law library that was just opened this fall (3 stories with tons of study rooms, nice areas and great views out of the main windows). A good portion of the law school was updated back in 2000... only a few "older" classrooms.

Third, The professors are pretty good, some are too smart for their own good (and need to be dumbed down for the masses), but most are very approachable and want you to do well. We also have a few legal "rockstars" here. Prof. Alan Meese is on the short list for a federal appeals bench opening and is Mr. Learned Hand (if you don't know the reference... you will by this time next year). Prof. William Van Alstyn is our Con Law Rock Star... lets just say he's kind of a big deal

Fourth, A kick-ass football team (ok, not so much, but we do have a team... they wear yellow and green... and don't win much).

Finally, it is actually a good school (if not great); only 600 students total (200 per year) and we are treated like royalty... we get lots of coddling around here.

About legal skills vs. other schools. I'm sure it's the same BS everywhere... so good point on calling me on that.

About Con Law review, As a 1L you don't get much of a chance for that, but the Con Law program here is a big deal... good reason to come (as good as any i guess).

As for economics... don't let some schools fool you about being more econ focused than others... the law is driven by economics (as you will learn in Torts next fall)... embrace it baby, it ain't going away

woodford · Post by **woodford** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:36 pm

alejandro · Post by **alejandro** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:39 pm

At least the Legal Writing program isn't 2 YEARS long like GMU though

joebruin2.0 · Post by **joebruin2.0** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:40 pm

see now woodford is what is known as a troll. I'm sure he possess a JD from W&M.
... jesus have you read his posts, total Douche! Yes, not many like that at W&M (the kind that wear shirts that say "ask me how smart I think I am"). Totally forgot A-holes like that are out there among us. lol

Fly · Post by **Fly** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:42 pm

...is Mr. Learned Hand (if you don't know the reference... you will by this time next year). Prof. William Van Alstyn is our Con Law Rock Star... lets just say he's kind of a big deal

I feel like a nerd. I get the reference, and Van Alstyne is on my list of "Top 5 reasons to go to W&M." If I do end up there, I really really hope I get put in his 1L Con Law section (there's no way I could request this, is there?)

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