Cleveland-Marshall College of Law Forum

[doubled99]

bumping for more info.

[Cole S. Law]

What do you want to know? 1L here.

[doubled99]

How is everything there? What are the job opportunities like for internships and what not? How are the profs and grading scale?

[Cole S. Law]

How is everything there? What are the job opportunities like for internships and what not? How are the profs and grading scale?

I am thrilled with my decision to attend CM Law. I will graduate with very little debt, and I already have an internship (unpaid) lined up for this summer. The school offers externships that are great experience and offer credit with a wide range of legal employers. The school is on a definite upswing with an active, competent Dean and ongoing upgrades to the facilities.

Job opportunities are better than you might expect provided: you finish above the median, plan to practice in Northeast Ohio, and take advantage of the alumni networking opportunities. If your desire is to get into some sort of transactional law, you're going to probably need to finish in the top 10%. Cleveland has a surprisingly large legal community. There are at least 4 Vault 100 firms that are filled with our alums. Nearly every judge in the area is one of our alums.

My profs are great with one exception. They are (one exception) brilliant, accomplished, and excellent teachers. The grading curve is steep, but it is really class rank that matters. The curve is no pushover. There are many older students and students from modest means. These students work very hard and outperform their admission stats.

Tell me more about your career goals, where you want to practice, etc. and I can give you better info.

[spitfire935]

I am currently trying to decide between CM and Case. I have acceptances to both, but I am unsure why case costs $25k more. I am not from Cleveland, so do law offices generally hire grads from one more-so than the other? What are each of their regional reputation? I have visited Case and I know CM is around the corner so I guess I will need another visit.

[Cole S. Law]

I know 3 people who went to Case who expressed remorse for not attending CM. Case does seem to do marginally better outside of the region, and firms recruit a little deeper into their class. Those small differences don't warrant the extra 75k+ to me. I had a 13k/year scholarship offer from Case, but I still choose CM Law.

[BoilerUp]

I was just accepted on 1/29 and am seriously considering attending. I understand that law school is competitive by nature but that there is a big difference between a competitive law school and a cutthroat law school. What are the other students at Cleveland-Marshall like in your opinion. For example, do 2L and 3L students like to help 1L's, are the students in your section approachable?

[Cole S. Law]

CM is definitely not cutthroat. Everyone works very hard to get the top grades, but no one does it at the expense of their classmates. If there is any cut throat behavior, I haven't seen it.

[BoilerUp]

I see that Cleveland-Marshall offers four areas of concentration. I have read the brief summary of the four concentrations but I am still uncertain of what exactly is covered in each. It seems that most schools offer similar concentration areas but they are all structured in different ways. I am currently interested in transactional law or litigation.

Are you interested in a certain concentration?

Do you know if my interests are under any of the offered concentrations at CM? For example, I am assuming transactional law would fall under Business law. Is this assumption correct?

[spitfire935]

Just visited C-M and was absolutely amazed. The building is nice and in a good location, the moot court room is huge, the classrooms allow natural light and have comfy chairs. Definitely a better fit all around for me than Case. I have visited both so if anyone has any questions PM me.

[Cole S. Law]

I see that Cleveland-Marshall offers four areas of concentration. I have read the brief summary of the four concentrations but I am still uncertain of what exactly is covered in each. It seems that most schools offer similar concentration areas but they are all structured in different ways. I am currently interested in transactional law or litigation.

Are you interested in a certain concentration?

Do you know if my interests are under any of the offered concentrations at CM? For example, I am assuming transactional law would fall under Business law. Is this assumption correct?

Concentrations aren't very important to employers. If you want to do transactional work there are classes you should certainly take: Antitrust, Bankruptcy, Tax, etc. Litigation essentials: Evidence, Trial advocacy, Products liability. If you're looking for transactional work an JD/MBA might be in order. No one is going to shitcan your resume because you don't have a "concentration" in their field. They might actually look sideways at your application is you earned a concentration not on point to what they're hiring for. Most people don't do a concetration. I wouldn't worry about it.


Importance to an employer: Class rank........Law Review.....Legal Work experience.......Moot court/trial advocacy.....class selection (exempting must-have-type courses listed above).

[BoilerUp]

Thank you for all of your help and good luck with the rest of the semester.

[kartal]

Hello, I have also some questions:

1. What is the typical section size at CM?

2. How is the grading curve at CM?

3. Does the school use the Socratic method?

4. How are the job prospects for the students not at top 10%? Is the job mostly in the greater Cleveland area?

5. How do you like the neighborhood surrounding the law school?

6. What is your favorite part about your law school?

7. Why are you glad you chose your law school over some of the other options that you had? What were your other options?

8. Does the faculty lean more liberal or conservative? How about the student body?

9. How generous is the school in granting scholarships?

Sorry, if this is a lot but it will really help me if you can answer. Thanks in advance.

[Cole S. Law]

[quote="kartal"]Hello, I have also some questions:

1. What is the typical section size at CM?
1st year sections are about 55 people. After 1st year class size varies widely from 55+ for required courses like Con Law, to 5 for a less popular seminar class.

2. How is the grading curve at CM?

The curve is not very forgiving. It is a B-/C curve. It helps to seperate the best students and helps people who weren't cut out for law see that sooner.

3. Does the school use the Socratic method?

Depends on the prof. Most do, but today's Socratic isn't nearly as brutal as it's reputation would make it sound. Usually the prof will help you along if you're lost or allow another student to chime in.

4. How are the job prospects for the students not at top 10%? Is the job mostly in the greater Cleveland area?

Don't be in the bottom 20% It's a real uphill battle. This is true at almost any school. Most other people seem to be finding work. Use the schools extensive externship program to get to know people in the legal community. Most jobs seem to spring from these relationships. Jobs are largely in the Cleveland area. Our alumni dominate the shockingly large legal community in Cleveland. I also know people with offers in DC, Hawaii, Florida, West Virginia, Chicago, but Cleveland is the clear majority.

[Cole S. Law]

5. How do you like the neighborhood surrounding the law school?

The neighborhood is fine. We're a half block from the theatre district and on the campus of the largely commuter Cleveland State. It is safe (you're still in a city use common sense). The great thing about Cleveland is that it is easy to get around. You can live in any number of hip young neighborhoods like Coventry, Tremont, E 4th, and be at the law school in under 15min.

6. What is your favorite part about your law school?

Price, professors, externships.

7. Why are you glad you chose your law school over some of the other options that you had? What were your other options?

I have no debt. I was admitted to Cinci, Case Western, Pitt, George Mason, and Washington and Lee. After I applied I started researching in earnest what kind of law I wanted to practice. I decided on a career path as a prosecutor. It didn't make sense to bury myself in debt at Case/Pitt/GM to follow that career path. Cinci was an attractive option, but most of my family is in Northeast Ohio and I wanted to live there when I graduated. Cleveland Marshall grads are everywhere in Northeastern Ohio prosecutor's offices. I can extern in the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office while in school and set myself up for an offer after I graduate. The profs and students are all accomplished and interesting. I couldn't be happier with my choice.

8. Does the faculty lean more liberal or conservative? How about the student body?
The faculty and students both lean strongly liberal (students slightly less than the faculty). Par for the course at 95% of schools. Politics doesn't creep into daily life too much. Even the most political profs still teach the law as it is. Then they throw in a 30 second diatribe about how the rich are using the system to oppress women/minorities/gays/poor. Whatever your political leanings, you will be treated with respect.

9. How generous is the school in granting scholarships?
I don't know exactly. I have a big scholarship. That's why I came here. Most of my friends are also on scholarship. The biggest "scholarship" is the state subsidy that keeps tuition very low. Everyone benefits from that one. In case you didn't know, almost anyone who wants to can get instate in year 2.

Sorry, if this is a lot but it will really help me if you can answer. Thanks in advance.

[kartal]

5. How do you like the neighborhood surrounding the law school?

The neighborhood is fine. We're a half block from the theatre district and on the campus of the largely commuter Cleveland State. It is safe (you're still in a city use common sense). The great thing about Cleveland is that it is easy to get around. You can live in any number of hip young neighborhoods like Coventry, Tremont, E 4th, and be at the law school in under 15min.

Thanks for all your answers.

[kartal]

5. How do you like the neighborhood surrounding the law school?

The neighborhood is fine. We're a half block from the theatre district and on the campus of the largely commuter Cleveland State. It is safe (you're still in a city use common sense). The great thing about Cleveland is that it is easy to get around. You can live in any number of hip young neighborhoods like Coventry, Tremont, E 4th, and be at the law school in under 15min.

Thanks for all your answers.

Cole, I actually have one more question. How would you describe the student life / social life at CM? Thanks again.

[Cole S. Law]

I'm the wrong guy to ask. I've got a wife and kids, so I don't socialize much outside of class. I often hear people planning evenings out (ballgames, bars, dinners, etc), and I get alot of invites, but my family obligations keep me from attending many outtings. I did attend a couple of Student Bar Association events. They had free beer, so they were pretty fun.

[irish017]

Is anyone going to the upcoming admitted student events?

I'm strongly considering CM and have a few questions.

Can I lobby them for more money?

and

Will they reimburse travel expenses?

[Cole S. Law]

Couldn't hurt to ask.

[johnwic11]

My wife is going to apply to Cleveland Marshall for fall 2011 due to the majority of my family living there. Seems like it is an underrated school with decent job opportunities. We are trying to get her lsat score up from a 154 with a 3.31 gpa. The gi bill would cover most of the tuition and she would receive in state due to the miltary friendly state. I attended john carroll university for 2 years before transfering (quit football) and think that cleveland is underrated in general if you can handle the snow. i had a great time while in college there and when i visit there is nothing i cant do there that could be done anywhere else in the states.

[the lantern]

Hey Cole Slaw, a friend of mine goes to CSU for law and he got an F his first semester 1L year in one of his classes. He thinks he is still going to be just fine and will get a job just fine. I haven't said anything to him and I just smiled and agreed with him. Is he as crazy as I think he is? If you know this guy, please don't out me

[Cole S. Law]

Hey Cole Slaw, a friend of mine goes to CSU for law and he got an F his first semester 1L year in one of his classes. He thinks he is still going to be just fine and will get a job just fine. I haven't said anything to him and I just smiled and agreed with him. Is he as crazy as I think he is? If you know this guy, please don't out me

He should probably seriously re-evaluate a career in law. 1L grades are crucial. Unless he can rebound with like a 3.7+ GPA this semester, his career is likely DOA. Even then, an F is a high mountain to climb. Don't bother trying to talk sense into your friend. If he is unable to accurately assess the gravity the situation, your input is going to fall on deaf ears.

[nfg2603]

im coming from out of state and was interested in finding a place to live with another law student. is anybody else on here looking for roomates or a place to live?

[stintez]

Got a 67% tuition scholarship 3.2 stip how extreme is that?6__