UVA Law Students Taking Questions Forum

[Puttanesca]

Incoming 1L here. Do students get their books at the bookstore or from online places like Amazon? I'm guessing Amazon would be cheaper?

[Cavalier]

Thoughts on the following schedule?
PR (Hylton) (2)
Law & Game Theory (Johnston) (3)
Trusts & Estates (Morley) (3)
Law Firm as a Business (Hixon) (3)
Law & Econ Colloquium (Barzuza/Oliar) (1)
Rhetoric (SC) (Sayler) (1)
Negotiation Institute (SC) (Craver) (1)

Without also posting your general career goals, it's kind of hard to offer good advice about whether or not you should take that schedule. If you just want to land a big law job somewhere and don't really care what else happens, then I don't really see anything wrong with that schedule. But you should keep in mind that (a) if you at all anticipate the possibility of interviewing for jobs as a 3L or recent graduate (e.g. government, clerkships, smaller firms that don't have summer programs) you should probably aim for more doctrinal courses, and (b) even though a lot of what you learn in law school is useless for private practice, there are still helpful courses for working at a large firm--corporations, accounting and corporate finance, evidence, securities regulation, administrative law, etc. may all be helpful depending on where you work. I would recommend scrapping PR and taking a four credit course like evidence, corporations, or accounting and corporate finance (four credits total). That way you've got thirteen guaranteed credits in addition to whatever one credit courses you're lucky enough to get into.

[Cavalier]

Incoming 1L here. Do students get their books at the bookstore or from online places like Amazon? I'm guessing Amazon would be cheaper?

For most books Amazon is cheaper even if you get them brand new. Unfortunately as a 1L you won't get your section assignment (and thus, you won't know what books you'll need) until too close to the start of classes to feasibly order used books online, but you'll still probably have enough time for new books if you have Amazon prime. Also I think the criminal law book is the same for every professor (that's how it was my year--things may have changed, but I doubt it), so you may be able to order that used online and get it really cheap (if you can deal with previous owners' markings).

[bgdddymtty]

Thoughts on the following schedule?
PR (Hylton) (2)
Law & Game Theory (Johnston) (3)
Trusts & Estates (Morley) (3)
Law Firm as a Business (Hixon) (3)
Law & Econ Colloquium (Barzuza/Oliar) (1)
Rhetoric (SC) (Sayler) (1)
Negotiation Institute (SC) (Craver) (1)

Without also posting your general career goals, it's kind of hard to offer good advice about whether or not you should take that schedule. If you just want to land a big law job somewhere and don't really care what else happens, then I don't really see anything wrong with that schedule. But you should keep in mind that (a) if you at all anticipate the possibility of interviewing for jobs as a 3L or recent graduate (e.g. government, clerkships, smaller firms that don't have summer programs) you should probably aim for more doctrinal courses, and (b) even though a lot of what you learn in law school is useless for private practice, there are still helpful courses for working at a large firm--corporations, accounting and corporate finance, evidence, securities regulation, administrative law, etc. may all be helpful depending on where you work. I would recommend scrapping PR and taking a four credit course like evidence, corporations, or accounting and corporate finance (four credits total). That way you've got thirteen guaranteed credits in addition to whatever one credit courses you're lucky enough to get into.

Thanks for the help. I'm looking at either Navy JAG or Texas big/midlaw doing either general corporate or any of energy/health care/securities/real estate/tax. I have an MBA and several years of WE, most recently in securities compliance. Last spring I took Evidence, Sports Law, and a course at the JAG School. Next spring I plan to take Tax, at least one of Corps/Secured TX/Bankruptcy, and another JAG class or two. No interest in a clerkship; some interest in working for the IRS, depending on how much I like Tax.

[Cavalier]

Thoughts on the following schedule?
PR (Hylton) (2)
Law & Game Theory (Johnston) (3)
Trusts & Estates (Morley) (3)
Law Firm as a Business (Hixon) (3)
Law & Econ Colloquium (Barzuza/Oliar) (1)
Rhetoric (SC) (Sayler) (1)
Negotiation Institute (SC) (Craver) (1)

Without also posting your general career goals, it's kind of hard to offer good advice about whether or not you should take that schedule. If you just want to land a big law job somewhere and don't really care what else happens, then I don't really see anything wrong with that schedule. But you should keep in mind that (a) if you at all anticipate the possibility of interviewing for jobs as a 3L or recent graduate (e.g. government, clerkships, smaller firms that don't have summer programs) you should probably aim for more doctrinal courses, and (b) even though a lot of what you learn in law school is useless for private practice, there are still helpful courses for working at a large firm--corporations, accounting and corporate finance, evidence, securities regulation, administrative law, etc. may all be helpful depending on where you work. I would recommend scrapping PR and taking a four credit course like evidence, corporations, or accounting and corporate finance (four credits total). That way you've got thirteen guaranteed credits in addition to whatever one credit courses you're lucky enough to get into.

Thanks for the help. I'm looking at either Navy JAG or Texas big/midlaw doing either general corporate or any of energy/health care/securities/real estate/tax. I have an MBA and several years of WE, most recently in securities compliance. Last spring I took Evidence, Sports Law, and a course at the JAG School. Next spring I plan to take Tax, at least one of Corps/Secured TX/Bankruptcy, and another JAG class or two. No interest in a clerkship; some interest in working for the IRS, depending on how much I like Tax.

No idea what JAG hiring involves, but as far as doing corporate work in Texas, you're probably fine; your WE should already give you a much more thorough understanding of corporate matters than most students have. But unless those courses all really interest you, you may still want to consider throwing in something a bit more serious so you can save the lighter courses for 3L year.

[berkeleykel06]

I rarely type more than 12-15 pages on exams and not suprisingly my best grades have come from professors who have a firm "less is more" stance.

Any suggestions for professors who've made it clear they prefer shorter exams?

[Doritos]

I rarely type more than 12-15 pages on exams and not suprisingly my best grades have come from professors who have a firm "less is more" stance.

Any suggestions for professors who've made it clear they prefer shorter exams?

profs who want shorter exams? be concise and to the point. put down the most important issues. But you said your best grades are from profs who want shorter exams so it seems like you have this figured out? Typo maybe?

edit: reading fail.

[itsirtou]

I rarely type more than 12-15 pages on exams and not suprisingly my best grades have come from professors who have a firm "less is more" stance.

Any suggestions for professors who've made it clear they prefer shorter exams?

profs who want shorter exams? be concise and to the point. put down the most important issues. But you said your best grades are from profs who want shorter exams so it seems like you have this figured out? Typo maybe?

I think they're asking for professors who want shorter exams, so they make sure to take those professors' classes?

I think Mahoney is teaching Securities -- he's made it pretty clear he wants short exams.

[thesealocust]

I rarely type more than 12-15 pages on exams and not suprisingly my best grades have come from professors who have a firm "less is more" stance.

Any suggestions for professors who've made it clear they prefer shorter exams?

I believe both popular tax profs (Yin & Yale) use hard word limits and multiple choice. Johnson traditionally relies on multiple choice for part of his exams but the rest is often race-horsey. Verkerke famously has tiny word limits, Leslie gives exams that you can't study for anyway, and there are a few other oddballs who will require like 6 word answers on a 4 hour exam or something silly.

[bgdddymtty]

Also, Abraham.

[omg]

To respond to thesealocust above, Yale supposedly has multiple choice but Yin does not.

Sprigman has word limits on some exams (Trademark) but not on others (Copyright). I assume that means that he appreciates concise answers even where he doesn't require them. I have also heard anecdotally that Geis likes short answers (though I think he goes either way).

[thesealocust]

To respond to thesealocust above, Yale supposedly has multiple choice but Yin does not.

Sprigman has word limits on some exams (Trademark) but not on others (Copyright). I assume that means that he appreciates concise answers even where he doesn't require them. I have also heard anecdotally that Geis likes short answers (though I think he goes either way).

Wow. I was in Yin's class, you think I'd remember that the exam didn't have multiple choice questions omg is correct on that one.

[SweetnessUVA]

Is taking Coportation, Bankrupcy, Secured Transactions, and two 1 credit seminars too light of a load for 2L fall?

Taking only three real courses is definitely a light workload, but 12 credits is fine--I did that my 2L fall. That said, with OGI occurring so early, 2L fall is not as crazy as a lot of people make it out to be, assuming the job search doesn't drag on too long. Callbacks generally occur in the first two or three weeks of classes (and some occur even before classes begin), so the process is likely to wrap up early on. You may want to take more credits in the fall to give yourself an easier second half of law school.

Do you know other people that did this? I'm thinking of taking three four-credit classes, but am concerned that I'd be the only one doing this...

Or suggestions on a 1-credit pass/fail course to take?

[thesealocust]

luls, I took the minimum credits spring 1L year and fall 2L year. (As I often say, I'm a lazy som'bitch). Nobody will notice or care, I guarantee it.

For 1 credit courses, investigate: corporate strategy, independent study, seminar in ethical values (unpopular ones are avail to 2Ls - it's 1 credit for both semesters, not sure if it will count towards getting you to 12 in the spring or the fall).

[omg]

Thanks, seal

Does anyone know anything about Walt for Bankruptcy, especially what his curve is like and whether he is known to be a fair/normal grader (as opposed to a somewhat random grader like--allegedly--Harrison and Kordana)?

[Cavalier]

Thanks, seal

Does anyone know anything about Walt for Bankruptcy, especially what his curve is like and whether he is known to be a fair/normal grader (as opposed to a somewhat random grader like Paul B. Stephan III)?

Fixed

[omg]

Haha, let the record show that I have never taken a class with Professor Stephan but really like him.

[thesealocust]

Haha, let the record show that I have never taken a class with Professor Stephan but really like him.

$100 says you've never done a cite check for an article he wrote.

[Cavalier]

He was certainly a great professor, but he ruined my life. When I'm broke and homeless I'm going to blame him.

[vamedic03]

Thanks, seal

Does anyone know anything about Walt for Bankruptcy, especially what his curve is like and whether he is known to be a fair/normal grader (as opposed to a somewhat random grader like--allegedly--Harrison and Kordana)?

I've heard he's incredibly dry, but does a good job covering the material. Everything I've heard indicates that he's a fair grader with a decent spread (i.e., not extreme like Cohen nor narrow like Mitchell/Abraham). Also, I know some people swear by Hynes and he seems to be a nice guy, but I know nothing about his grading nor his lecturing.

[itsirtou]

So I gather it's hard to get into 1 credit classes -- think there's any chance of getting into Federal Sentencing, or should I just save it for 3L year?

[omg]

So I gather it's hard to get into 1 credit classes -- think there's any chance of getting into Federal Sentencing, or should I just save it for 3L year?

There were definitely 2Ls in it last year.

[ReelectClayDavis]

Interested in comparing these professors for doctrinals, please post any thoughts on the laptop use policy or the final exam style if its weird.

Brown vs Spellman for evidence in the fall. Lawweb says that Brown does not allow laptops at all and I hear his exams are closed book; nothing about Spellman and laptops, does anyone know if she allows them for her evidence section, and what her exam style is? Noticed she only meets twice a week, would prefer that unless it is a problem to cover all the material?

Fed courts: Jeffries first semester vs Nelson or Woolhandler second semester, or avoid until 3L? If one wants to clerk is it really important to take during 2L?

Criminal Investigations: Armacost first semester or Coughlin second semester?

Legislation: Nelson first semester or Armacost second semester?

Admin law: Magill first semester vs Duffy or Fischman second semester?

Had Nelson and Jeffries last year and know both are great, interested in how the others compare.

Thanks all, will edit down if people already covered these upthread

[Cavalier]

Interested in comparing these professors for doctrinals, please post any thoughts on the laptop use policy or the final exam style if its weird.

Brown vs Spellman for evidence in the fall. Lawweb says that Brown does not allow laptops at all and I hear his exams are closed book; nothing about Spellman and laptops, does anyone know if she allows them for her evidence section, and what her exam style is? Noticed she only meets twice a week, would prefer that unless it is a problem to cover all the material?

The only correct answer is Michael Collins in the spring. Sorry.

Fed courts: Jeffries first semester vs Nelson or Woolhandler second semester, or avoid until 3L? If one wants to clerk is it really important to take during 2L?

Jeffries or Nelson, but not Woolhandler. Which of the two you take is entirely up to you--you've already had both so you should know what to expect. Nelson hasn't taught fed courts the past two years, and Jeffries taught it in the fall of 2009 when none of the now-3Ls could take it, so I don't think anyone can help you out. I think the difficulty of fed courts is overrated; it's hard and full of gunners, but so are a lot of other classes. The alleged boost that a good grade will give you is minor; your overall GPA is far more important. Take fed courts as a 2L if you like one of the professors and it fits your schedule, but don't feel the need to.

Criminal Investigations: Armacost first semester or Coughlin second semester?

Coughlin.

Legislation: Nelson first semester or Armacost second semester?

Nelson. He's a great professor, plus it takes only a very minimal effort to do well in legislation.

Admin law: Magill first semester vs Duffy or Fischman second semester?

Magill. I've heard good things about Duffy, but Magill is supposedly great. And she rarely teaches admin, so you're unlikely to have the opportunity to take it with her next year.

[mattattack911]

I always heard Legislation w/ Nelson was really tough. Cavalier, how come you come out differently on that one?