UVA Law Students Taking Questions Forum

[RVP11]

FWIW I also G-chatted way more, and paid less attention in class in spring semester, only to do better on exams. If G-chat time is correlated to exam success, I will be shattering the curve in two weeks.

Haha thats awsome that worked for you, were you chatting about law related (or LS related items) or the drinking venue for that evening

Random BS mostly (jokes, sharing of funny links, discussion of sports, what we're doing over teh weekend), though G-chat is also clutch for those times when you miss something the prof said that might be important, or you simply have a question that's bugging you but not enough to warrant raising your hand in class.

True in-class G-chat masters videochat each other so they can see who can pull a more bored facial expression.

[napolnic]

This really depends on the major you had in UG. Frankly for the typical law school student (who majored in poli sci, English, History etc.) it does require a lot more. But for those people who were majoring in things like Math, Chemistry, Microbiology, Physics, even the harder Economics and Accounting programs it's not an increase. It's not as hard to grasp either.

I think that this is entirely wrong. Most people may think that the sciences are "harder" than law, but that's not the point. In virtually everything you do (at least as an undergrad) in any of the disciplines that you mentioned, you're trying to find the correct answer. In law school, however, there is almost never a correct answer! Even for those few times when there is one correct outcome on a given question, success on a law school exam rests far more on "showing your work" than on actually arriving at that answer.

Whether or not there is only one right answer in those disciplines (which for the record would contribute to difficulty not lessen it) it is much more intellectually demanding to come up with that answer than it is to do what you are doing on a law school exam. Figuring out the correct answers in multivariable calculus, thermodynamics, or Biochemistry is simply on an entirely different playing field than the first year legal curriculum. As I saw raynier post once, the material in law school isn't difficult. It's the forced curve and competing against people of similair intellectual aptitude that generates the difficulty. And frankly, showing your work in law school is just a way of saying: "argue both sides" or "show why this rule applies" etc. Showing your work is a huge part of higher level math: that's the whole point of the insanely complex proofs required in subjects like topology.

I'll respect this answer a lot more if you think the same thing after you've actually taken exams.

[pjo]

Can anyone explain the PILA grants to me? I know non-profits qualify but what else? Apparently working for a judge does not qualify for it. Is the money applied directly to your tuition or do they just write you a check?

[YCrevolution]

..

[dorriedoodle]

How do you think LGBT students are treated?

[rundoxierun]

One of you guys want to stop by your admissions office and tell them to chill out with the YP this year?

[flyingpanda]

One of you guys want to stop by your admissions office and tell them to chill out with the YP this year?

To be extremely frank, applicants like you are a prime reason why YP exists. Anyone who has read any of your posts knows you don't wanna go here brah.

[Cavalier]

One of you guys want to stop by your admissions office and tell them to chill out with the YP this year?

Since you're in at Harvard, I'm guessing you're hoping for the option of a full ride at UVA. If UVA is being silent on your application, I would just send them an email stating that a great housing opportunity has come up in Boston that has a tight deadline, but you'd still be willing to consider attending UVA over Harvard, and that you're wondering when they can give you a decision. If they want you, they'll accept you soon after.

[AJW]

All of this information is great and very helpful but to me it all comes down to locking up a job so we can pay back our loans when all is said and done. Can any of you speak on the recent OGI, how many interviews you had? Call backs? The overall vibe of students and employers. Also, how do employers view your transcripts if UVa doesn't rank you? One last question, where would one need to place in the class to end up at a Vault 100 in L.A.?

[RVP11]

Also, how do employers view your transcripts if UVa doesn't rank you? One last question, where would one need to place in the class to end up at a Vault 100 in L.A.?

The fact that UVA doesn't rank us has no practical effect on job prospects. Anyone with a calculator and knowledge of math can calculate your approximate class rank once they know the median (probably right around 3.3) and the historical top quarter mark (3.48). Firms have some vague sense of what their "cutoff" is, and it seems like most firms have both a soft and a hard cutoff.

As to your LA question - anywhere from below median to grading on to Law Review. If you have a connection to LA and interview well, then you'll probably be fine.

[pjo]

Also, how do employers view your transcripts if UVa doesn't rank you? One last question, where would one need to place in the class to end up at a Vault 100 in L.A.?

The fact that UVA doesn't rank us has no practical effect on job prospects. Anyone with a calculator and knowledge of math can calculate your approximate class rank once they know the median (probably right around 3.3) and the historical top quarter mark (3.48). Firms have some vague sense of what their "cutoff" is, and it seems like most firms have both a soft and a hard cutoff.

As to your LA question - anywhere from below median to grading on to Law Review. If you have a connection to LA and interview well, then you'll probably be fine.

How about other secondary markets? I'm particularly interesed in W.PA northeast OH (Pittsburgh/Cleveland and everthing in btwn, don't really care about vault ranking so long as the pay is enough to pay back loans and live comfortably). I saw a decent amt. of firms from that region go to OGI. I can't imagine too many ppl would bid on them besides ppl like me with ties to that region, which I'm hoping might make them easier targets to land a job with. Am I correct in thinking like this? At the same time, these firms have relatively small hiring classes (3-5 entry/yr). Appx. where in the class would I have to be to get a job in that region?

[showNprove]

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[bgdddymtty]

One of you guys want to stop by your admissions office and tell them to chill out with the YP this year?

If UVA admitted everyone with good numbers, our class would be as big as . . . Harvard's or Georgetown's, actually.

So the admissions office needs to waitlist some people with good numbers. They'll probably waitlist the people they don't like. They probably don't like the people who show very little interest in UVA, among other reasons.

Of course, any person with high numbers was automatically YP'ed. What other explanation could there be? All people with high numbers are special little flowers whose applications would not raise any questions with any admissions officer.

I was going to say all of this, but I didn't want to be harsh. Amen.

People don't realize that, at UVa, demonstrating that you actually want to go to UVa is one of the admissions criteria.

[rundoxierun]

One of you guys want to stop by your admissions office and tell them to chill out with the YP this year?

If UVA admitted everyone with good numbers, our class would be as big as . . . Harvard's or Georgetown's, actually.

So the admissions office needs to waitlist some people with good numbers. They'll probably waitlist the people they don't like. They probably don't like the people who show very little interest in UVA, among other reasons.

Of course, any person with high numbers was automatically YP'ed. What other explanation could there be? All people with high numbers are special little flowers whose applications would not raise any questions with any admissions officer.

I was going to say all of this, but I didn't want to be harsh. Amen.

People don't realize that, at UVa, demonstrating that you actually want to go to UVa is one of the admissions criteria.

LOL.. trust me, not offended by the harshness.

[RVP11]

Also, how do employers view your transcripts if UVa doesn't rank you? One last question, where would one need to place in the class to end up at a Vault 100 in L.A.?

The fact that UVA doesn't rank us has no practical effect on job prospects. Anyone with a calculator and knowledge of math can calculate your approximate class rank once they know the median (probably right around 3.3) and the historical top quarter mark (3.48). Firms have some vague sense of what their "cutoff" is, and it seems like most firms have both a soft and a hard cutoff.

As to your LA question - anywhere from below median to grading on to Law Review. If you have a connection to LA and interview well, then you'll probably be fine.

How about other secondary markets? I'm particularly interesed in W.PA northeast OH (Pittsburgh/Cleveland and everthing in btwn, don't really care about vault ranking so long as the pay is enough to pay back loans and live comfortably). I saw a decent amt. of firms from that region go to OGI. I can't imagine too many ppl would bid on them besides ppl like me with ties to that region, which I'm hoping might make them easier targets to land a job with. Am I correct in thinking like this? At the same time, these firms have relatively small hiring classes (3-5 entry/yr). Appx. where in the class would I have to be to get a job in that region?

This is a very hard question to answer.

Yes, those markets (Cleveland/Pittsburgh) are easier than most, especially since you have ties. But no one can give you a class rank. Outside of the most elite firms (i.e. firms not in OH/PA), even sub-median grades don't automatically take you out of the running. If you interview well you could get a job in one of those places with a 3.1 (bottom quarter). If you don't interview well you might strike out with a 3.4 (top third).

[showNprove]

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[RVP11]

BTW, special request EVERY firm in that region who doesn't select you for an interview. Most likely, the interviewer is the one reviewing the special requests. If your request is well-done and accepted, then the interviewer likes you before you even walk in the door.

This is key, and something not enough people take advantage of.

The preselects are generally done by recruiting office people, not the OGI interviewers themselves (who are usually deciding who to call back to the office). For all we know, recruiting staff people just preselect the 12 people with the highest GPAs, but the OGI interviewers (who are attorneys) might view things a bit more holistically.

[54rueplumet]

One of you guys want to stop by your admissions office and tell them to chill out with the YP this year?

If UVA admitted everyone with good numbers, our class would be as big as . . . Harvard's or Georgetown's, actually.

So the admissions office needs to waitlist some people with good numbers. They'll probably waitlist the people they don't like. They probably don't like the people who show very little interest in UVA, among other reasons.

Of course, any person with high numbers was automatically YP'ed. What other explanation could there be? All people with high numbers are special little flowers whose applications would not raise any questions with any admissions officer.

I was going to say all of this, but I didn't want to be harsh. Amen.

People don't realize that, at UVa, demonstrating that you actually want to go to UVa is one of the admissions criteria.

I am posting under an authorized alt, but I wanted to back this up 100%. The UVA admissions office is amazing, and I was very surprised by the amount of individualized attention they gave every applicant. I applied as a transfer student, and though I was not on LR at my school (my grades were good, but not top 10%), nor was I a VA resident, I was given a good amount of personalized attention. Someone clearly thought about my application, which should have been highly unlikely, because I put a lot of creative thought into explaining why I wanted to be there. (I also had the support of current students, which couldn't hurt.) They took 12 people this transfer cycle, so I knew it was not going to happen, but I was pretty touched by the reception all the same.

The creative enthusiasm idea applies at just about every school, including mine, but at UVA it seems to carry an enormous amount of weight.

Good luck to the class of 2014, and I leave you your thread.

[showNprove]

BTW, special request EVERY firm in that region who doesn't select you for an interview. Most likely, the interviewer is the one reviewing the special requests. If your request is well-done and accepted, then the interviewer likes you before you even walk in the door.

This is key, and something not enough people take advantage of.

The preselects are generally done by recruiting office people, not the OGI interviewers themselves (who are usually deciding who to call back to the office). For all we know, recruiting staff people just preselect the 12 people with the highest GPAs, but the OGI interviewers (who are attorneys) might view things a bit more holistically.

Along these same lines:

I can't remember if you could see who the firm was sending to OGI before the bids were due, but if you can see who the interviewer would be, take that into consideration. My best interview this year, by far, was with a reach firm ranked in the V100. I clicked with the interviewer so well, and she told me straight out that I would be a great fit with the firm. The problem: she was a junior associate. She probably had no sway whatsoever in the decision-making process. I didn't get the callback, and the only plausible explanation was that the people who were making the callback decisions were only reviewing me on paper.

You will have much more success, all else equal, if you interview with a partner. Any partner who comes to OGI will be on the hiring committee. If the partner likes you, (s)he will remember that and be able to make a strong push for you during the meetings. If you're interviewing with an associate, you should know that the associate is only there to weed out the socially inept. Then the recruiting coordinator/hiring partner offers callbacks based on resumes, transcripts, and writing samples. It's basically a second round of bidding.

[vissidarte27]

I apologize in advance if my question has already been addressed -- I read through the first 30 pages of this thread and didn't see it, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I'd like to know what you know about the correlation between residency in Virginia and admission at UVA, specifically as regards splitters.

My undergrad GPA, sadly, is lower than average (3.3) in a non-traditional major (music), but I anticipate a high-ish LSAT score. I am registered for the February test and have been scoring around 170 on the practice tests that I've taken and while I know that practice tests do not always reflect actual test scores, I hope to see similar marks. I still have two and a half months to study, so there is a chance that I will increase my score further (yesterday's test was a 171, woo hoo), but for argument's sake, let's say I score a 170.

3.3/170 is far from ideal and although some of my undergrad grades can be explained (I received Cs in choir for several semesters because I missed rehearsals in favor of performing at Ye Local Big Opera House, which I believe shows initiative and a commitment to learning), some of them are a result of me not giving a crap about my GPA. I had planned on going to graduate school in music where they don't care if you have the GPA of butter as long as you can sing, so it didn't matter all that much and I didn't put in as much effort as I could (should) have.

I regret it now, of course, that I've decided to pursue law instead of music, but there's no changing the past.

UVA is my top-choice school (I would be applying to begin in the fall of 2012), bar none. I love the school, I love the area, I love Charlottesville, I love the fact that y'all play softball, I love the weather, etc. I think that it's a place where I would thrive and I really hope that I would be able to matriculate there.

I plan on applying Early Decision, but even then I'm not sure that I would get in. That doubt has lead me to consider other options, namely gaining residency in Virginia since UVA is a state school and 40% of their slots are reserved for in-state students. I do not live there currently (I work these days as a nanny for an opera singer friend and am traveling 10 months out of the year, so I basically live in my suitcase), but I have given some thought to renting a room in some cheap Virginia town, getting a VA drivers license and paying VA state taxes so as to gain legal residency.

How much of a difference does residency make? Would it be advisable in my particular case?

I don't want to spend a bunch of money to move to Virginia if I don't have a shot anyway, you know? Alternately, I don't want to spend a bunch of money to move to Virginia when they might take me as an out-of-state Early Decision.

Any thoughts?

[bgdddymtty]

Residency matters big-time, in that it increases your chances of admission by at least an order of magnitude. However, they can spot fakes. I wouldn't worry about your situation too much, though. Assuming you do score in the 170's, your chances of getting in through ED are probably pretty good. Since you know that UVa is your top choice and you'll already have everything ready to go, you should submit your application and ED form on the first day that they are accepted. While it may not increase your chances markedly, it definitely conveys the image that you really, really want to be here. And, as I have pointed out in this thread and others, specifically wanting to attend UVa is a significant admissions criterion here.

[CaliMizzou]

While being in-state does help, I'm not sure it's a necessity in your case (if you score 170+) I was accepted ED OOS with a 3.32/170.

[vissidarte27]

Went and doubled checked my undergrad records -- my GPA is a 3.21, not a 3.3.

That might go up slightly (there is one class that is not accounted for, worth 4 credits in which I expect an A), but not much.

Does that change the game any or do you still think I'm fine apply OOS ED?

Thanks, y'all. Very helpful.

[showNprove]

If you ED with a 170+ early in the process, your residency will not keep you out.

[005618502]

Hey everyone.

I know this may have been said. But for someone looking to live with a SO in law school and looking to save some money would Coopley Hill and University Gardens be a bad/good choice? The 1 bedrooms seem to be pretty cheap and include most if not all bills. Also i was really looking for a den or 2 bedroom to have a little study room. Is the dining area in those 1 bedrooms enough room for a dining table (small) and a desk? Are these places super slummy? or whats the deal with them, how close is it to the law school