Penn Students Taking Questions Forum

[moonman157]

I was reading about LRW in the Choosing a Law School forum - is Penn still ungraded?

It'll be graded next year

This is unfortunate, correct?

I would say no. Legal writing is a very important skill. A grade incentivizes you to work harder at developing the skill.

Ok, I guess that was me being a lazy 0L who wants to avoid the stress of another graded class. But I definitely see your point.

[SportsFan]

I was reading about LRW in the Choosing a Law School forum - is Penn still ungraded?

It'll be graded next year

This is unfortunate, correct?

From a current 1L, yes, yes it is.

(sorry)

[hume85]

How many Bay Area firms or firms with large Bay Area offices come to OCI? Thank you in advance.

[PennBull]

How many Bay Area firms or firms with large Bay Area offices come to OCI? Thank you in advance.

23 total law firms visited OCI (several of which allow separate interview bids for different offices, such as Paul Hastings in Palo Alto and San Francisco), with a total for 419 potential interview slots for those offices. Some of those offices' interview slots are overlapped with other cities not in the Bay Area (i.e. the same slot could be eligible for bidding by somebody who wanted San Francisco or, say, Los Angeles, San Diego, Dallas, Seattle, etc.). I could be slightly off in these numbers but I think I added them up right.

There is also a very strong regional interviewing program that takes place before OCI. I am unsure of the firms that are there for this, but most people I know got between 7-10 interviews.

I do not know if this is higher or lower than other east coast law schools. What I do know is that we have a very strong California contingency (UC Berkeley and UCLA are the 4th and 5th most represented undergraduate schools in the class of 2014), and we wouldn't have one if we didn't do a good job of sending graduates back to California.

[Rahviveh]

Do most students live on campus as 1Ls?

[jcojd]

Do most students live on campus as 1Ls?

I think it tends to be 50/50, if by on campus you mean University City. I feel that there are very few living options that are actually *on* the campus, although there is a sizable contingent at the graduate dorms. I don't think you will find yourself for lack of law student neighbors either way. I lived in UC my 1L year and loved it.

[SportsFan]

As a current 1L, I guess I'll bump this up. I'll answer any questions 0L's may have...

[hume85]

What's the deal with Sansom Place East? The prices look reasonable, it's right down the street from the law school, and other grad students live there. What are the minuses relative to other living options? Thank you in advance.

[spyke123]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

[WhirledWorld]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

There are plenty of international opportunities at OCI; I'd say there are more London offices that conduct interviews than Asian (mostly Magic Circle). International opportunities are also very available your 1L summer if you have the language capabilities (1L SAs at foreign firms are more common than you'd think).

Also for people looking for housing, I really recommend University City. It's so freaking cheap. I pay ~$500/mo for rent and utilities.

[spyke123]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

There are plenty of international opportunities at OCI; I'd say there are more London offices that conduct interviews than Asian (mostly Magic Circle). International opportunities are also very available your 1L summer if you have the language capabilities (1L SAs at foreign firms are more common than you'd think).

Also for people looking for housing, I really recommend University City. It's so freaking cheap. I pay ~$500/mo for rent and utilities.

thanks a lot!

when you say big 3 consulting jobs/ibanking, do you mean legal opportunities or actual consulting/banking positions?

thanks again!

[WhirledWorld]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

There are plenty of international opportunities at OCI; I'd say there are more London offices that conduct interviews than Asian (mostly Magic Circle). International opportunities are also very available your 1L summer if you have the language capabilities (1L SAs at foreign firms are more common than you'd think).

Also for people looking for housing, I really recommend University City. It's so freaking cheap. I pay ~$500/mo for rent and utilities.

thanks a lot!

when you say big 3 consulting jobs/ibanking, do you mean legal opportunities or actual consulting/banking positions?

thanks again!

Of those that I know, one is doing private wealth management at GS and one is doing managerial consulting with McKinsey.

[hume85]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

There are plenty of international opportunities at OCI; I'd say there are more London offices that conduct interviews than Asian (mostly Magic Circle). International opportunities are also very available your 1L summer if you have the language capabilities (1L SAs at foreign firms are more common than you'd think).

Also for people looking for housing, I really recommend University City. It's so freaking cheap. I pay ~$500/mo for rent and utilities.

That sounds great. How long of a walk is it to the law school from where you live? Is it safe? Thank you in advance.

[spyke123]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

There are plenty of international opportunities at OCI; I'd say there are more London offices that conduct interviews than Asian (mostly Magic Circle). International opportunities are also very available your 1L summer if you have the language capabilities (1L SAs at foreign firms are more common than you'd think).

Also for people looking for housing, I really recommend University City. It's so freaking cheap. I pay ~$500/mo for rent and utilities.

thanks a lot!

when you say big 3 consulting jobs/ibanking, do you mean legal opportunities or actual consulting/banking positions?

thanks again!

Of those that I know, one is doing private wealth management at GS and one is doing managerial consulting with McKinsey.

thats pretty amazing, did they have any prior experience in those fields?

thanks!

[HeavenWood]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many secondary markets contracted significantly (the NALP numbers you're citing refer to last year's numbers btw). Your perception may be aggregately correct for NYC (which, TBF, is where most biglaw jobs come from in the first place), but I would still say this year was a bit of a setback overall; I would guess between 1/4 and 1/3 of the class is still SOL. Hopefully we'll have some actual figures to report soon, but I would be shocked if there were any kind of overall improvement).

What does this mean for next year? If I had to guess, just as many firms appear to have been over-optimistic for 2012, they've probably over-corrected for 2013. I would think things will be better for next year's OCI cycle, but this is all conjecture at this point. Still, I think it's important to be honest and note that things aren't all puppies and rainbows over here. Nonetheless, we still probably did well relative to our peer schools.

[WhirledWorld]

For the people who went into banking/consulting, they usually have MBAs or finance/business backgrounds, but they are by no means necessary. It's more like that background is helpful and those folks tend to self-select into those recruiting processes, while the liberal arts/K-JD folks tend to shoot for biglaw or PI.

I live on Baltimore and 42nd; it's a little less than 20 min. walk (maybe ~7 min with a bike?). Once you get west of 40th, the real estate gets a little sketchier. The yellow jackets still patrol the area, but if you're uncomfortable with the occasional crime alert in your area, it might be worth it to live on campus or in center city.

The projected class sizes for next summer are up (marginally) for every market I looked at--certainly most NYC firms. Maybe Philly didn't follow that trend?

[Rahviveh]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many secondary markets contracted significantly (the NALP numbers you're citing refer to last year's numbers btw). Your perception may be aggregately correct for NYC (which, TBF, is where most biglaw jobs come from in the first place), but I would still say this year was a bit of a setback overall; I would guess between 1/4 and 1/3 of the class is still SOL. Hopefully we'll have some actual figures to report soon, but I would be shocked if there were any kind of overall improvement).

What does this mean for next year? If I had to guess, just as many firms appear to have been over-optimistic for 2012, they've probably over-corrected for 2013. I would think things will be better for next year's OCI cycle, but this is all conjecture at this point. Still, I think it's important to be honest and note that things aren't all puppies and rainbows over here. Nonetheless, we still probably did well relative to our peer schools.

does penn release any stats like this for c/o 2013?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=187451

[SportsFan]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

There are plenty of international opportunities at OCI; I'd say there are more London offices that conduct interviews than Asian (mostly Magic Circle). International opportunities are also very available your 1L summer if you have the language capabilities (1L SAs at foreign firms are more common than you'd think).

Also for people looking for housing, I really recommend University City. It's so freaking cheap. I pay ~$500/mo for rent and utilities.

That sounds great. How long of a walk is it to the law school from where you live? Is it safe? Thank you in advance.

I pay ~$830 for rent and utilities in UC but I have a studio (which I really like, but living with people can make things much cheaper). 15-20 minute walk to campus, which isn't bad. Probably gonna live here again next year just because its so convenient and easy.

[SportsFan]

How did OCI go this year? flat better or worse? What is the general vibe at the school right now? I read on Penn OCI thread that biglaw recruiting is overall down..

What percent of the class would you say has biglaw lined up next year?

someone mentioned earlier than international offices do come to recruit, are they mostly asian offices?

Thanks!

No one has any hard data, so take everything with a grain of salt, but I feel like OCI was marginally better this year than last year. Biglaw was attainable for over half the class, and others got really cool non-biglaw jobs (Big 3 consulting jobs, ibanking, government jobs like the CIA). FWIW most firms seemed to be hiring more this year than last year (just going off NALP numbers).

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many secondary markets contracted significantly (the NALP numbers you're citing refer to last year's numbers btw). Your perception may be aggregately correct for NYC (which, TBF, is where most biglaw jobs come from in the first place), but I would still say this year was a bit of a setback overall; I would guess between 1/4 and 1/3 of the class is still SOL. Hopefully we'll have some actual figures to report soon, but I would be shocked if there were any kind of overall improvement).

What does this mean for next year? If I had to guess, just as many firms appear to have been over-optimistic for 2012, they've probably over-corrected for 2013. I would think things will be better for next year's OCI cycle, but this is all conjecture at this point. Still, I think it's important to be honest and note that things aren't all puppies and rainbows over here. Nonetheless, we still probably did well relative to our peer schools.

does penn release any stats like this for c/o 2013?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=187451

AFAIK they've never released 2L job stats like that.

[PennBull]

I live on Baltimore and 42nd; it's a little less than 20 min. walk (maybe ~7 min with a bike?). Once you get west of 40th, the real estate gets a little sketchier. The yellow jackets still patrol the area, but if you're uncomfortable with the occasional crime alert in your area, it might be worth it to live on campus or in center city.

I feel more than comfortable all the way out until 46th-48th, if you stay south of Walnut. I've been to a few places out there and there's some really nice places.

I highly recommend UC because there's much more affordable housing and the walk/bike ride to school is very, very pleasant.

[hume85]

I live on Baltimore and 42nd; it's a little less than 20 min. walk (maybe ~7 min with a bike?). Once you get west of 40th, the real estate gets a little sketchier. The yellow jackets still patrol the area, but if you're uncomfortable with the occasional crime alert in your area, it might be worth it to live on campus or in center city.

I feel more than comfortable all the way out until 46th-48th, if you stay south of Walnut. I've been to a few places out there and there's some really nice places.

I highly recommend UC because there's much more affordable housing and the walk/bike ride to school is very, very pleasant.

Can you find something in University City for $800 or less that is less than a 15 minute walk? TYIA

[SportsFan]

I live on Baltimore and 42nd; it's a little less than 20 min. walk (maybe ~7 min with a bike?). Once you get west of 40th, the real estate gets a little sketchier. The yellow jackets still patrol the area, but if you're uncomfortable with the occasional crime alert in your area, it might be worth it to live on campus or in center city.

I feel more than comfortable all the way out until 46th-48th, if you stay south of Walnut. I've been to a few places out there and there's some really nice places.

I highly recommend UC because there's much more affordable housing and the walk/bike ride to school is very, very pleasant.

Can you find something in University City for $800 or less that is less than a 15 minute walk? TYIA

Less than 20 minutes, definitely. 15 minutes... maybe, but not likely.

[PennBull]

I live on Baltimore and 42nd; it's a little less than 20 min. walk (maybe ~7 min with a bike?). Once you get west of 40th, the real estate gets a little sketchier. The yellow jackets still patrol the area, but if you're uncomfortable with the occasional crime alert in your area, it might be worth it to live on campus or in center city.

I feel more than comfortable all the way out until 46th-48th, if you stay south of Walnut. I've been to a few places out there and there's some really nice places.

I highly recommend UC because there's much more affordable housing and the walk/bike ride to school is very, very pleasant.

Can you find something in University City for $800 or less that is less than a 15 minute walk? TYIA

I mean if you're parsing over 2 or 3 minutes, that's your thing. I bike to school and it's great--takes me 7-8 min

Keep in mind the Penn campus starts on 40th street, and the law school is on the east side of campus on 34th. So 15 minutes is probably the closest you'll be able to get.

Some 1Ls actually live above the bars/restaurants that are literally right across from the law school entrance. I don't know how much they pay, but that's a pretty sweet setup in my opinion.

[WhirledWorld]

Housing is much cheaper west of campus, however, if you are uncomfortable with the idea of walking home in the dark in an urban area where there is some criminal activity (the occasional petty theft or mugging), it might not be worth it. There are shuttles, public transit, and campus security, but some people (e.g. my girlfriend) are just uncomfortable with that.

Of course I've never had a problem, and campus security patrols the area quite a bit.

[PennBull]

Housing is much cheaper west of campus, however, if you are uncomfortable with the idea of walking home in the dark in an urban area where there is some criminal activity (the occasional petty theft or mugging), it might not be worth it. There are shuttles, public transit, and campus security, but some people (e.g. my girlfriend) are just uncomfortable with that.

Of course I've never had a problem, and campus security patrols the area quite a bit.

See the thing is every campus security alert has been several blocks away, and the one that was right next to us turned out to be a false report haha I think it's fine. Everyone who lives around UC are students and families