Florida State 1L Taking Questions Forum

[JD'izzle]

I'm currently a 1L at FSU, and while I have a lot of positive things to say, other people already covered it in this topic... so I want to address some issues I personally have with the school to give people further insight:

1) The teaching quality here varies immensely, both by subject and section. Some of my professors were amazing, and I enjoyed their class regardless of the grade I received. On the other hand, we have some professors who are experts in their fields but can barely teach. Their classes are full of rhetoric and anecdotes, or they're simply cryptic in their teaching methods. There were two classes last semester that I had to teach myself using the casebook and commercial supplements.

2) I do not hold the highest opinion of our Dean- he is difficult to talk to and gives the impression of being driven by stats and rankings; however, as a student you won't have much to do with him. On the other hand, our Assistant Dean is one of the nicest and most caring people I have ever met, and I'm amazed how she knows almost every student by name.

3) Socially, the school is VERY cliquey and it is really annoying (although this is probably true of most law schools). For example, Greeks are strongly represented here and a lot of them hang out with each other in a group. Because the community is really small (three sections, with around 80 per section), people talk about each other a lot

4) We dont really have the best options as a school for employment outside of the Southeast (unless you want to work for the Feds), but that is to be expected considering that state law schools tend to be well-represented regionally and thats it


EDIT: Oh and for students deciding between UF and FSU- I was accepted to both, and I ultimately chose FSU because it has a far better location (state capital, major courts down the street) and they were more generous with their scholarship offers. I hear on the internet that UF law has a reputation of being stingy with money to non-URMs

[Tuyarp]

Thanks for your contribution, JD'izzle! Could you please elaborate on FSU's social scene?

[iShotFirst]

Thanks again for taking the time to answer the questions.

If you have any knowledge on the subject; does the FSU degree have the ability extend outside of FL in your opinion? If so how how far?

To be completely honest, people go to FSU because they want to practice law in Florida (most of the time) or because they are Seminole fans (never, haha). All kidding aside, FSU is a great school if you want to practice in Florida because the school's alumni mainly reside in Florida (meaning the people who are going to hire you) and the classes sometimes focus on Florida elements of law as when giving specific example of laws in that area. On to your question, the JD from FSU will extend outside of Florida as far as you make it go. If you are #1 in your class, on journals, and mock trial team, I guarantee you could apply for jobs in any state and have a good a shot as any. Chances are though, your degree will be most valuable in Florida and the southeast, beyond that you would have to do something beyond to make it 'extend outside of FL'.

Are there many married students? Any comments on how married people get along at FSU?

Also, my wife is SUPER-safety conscious, and I always hear about the crime in tallahassee... please relieve my concerns if possible

Yes, there is a large contingent of you married folks at FSU law. It was actually something I was not expecting when starting law school, but didn't really affect me one way or the other. I am guessing the 'get along' question is meant to be very broad so I will answer it broadly; Married students get along just like any other student. Main difference being that they have other obligations (i.e. spouse) that other students don't have to worry about. Some do very well in law school, treating like a job where they are in the library or class from 9-5, while others take the opportunity to go home to be with their family and read/study there.

Tallahassee is a medium sized city, it has a medium amount of crime to match that. I agree with parts of what lawduder stated about crime in Tallahassee, namely that I have never felt unsafe here. Granted, there are not-so-great (read: bad) neighborhoods but in general I feel as safe here as I would just about anywhere. If you were to read the Tallahassee Democrat's crime section I'd be willing to bet a vast majority of all crimes committed here occur in a few selected parts of town. Come take a tour of campus, the law school, and the town itself (esp the surrounding areas where you would most likely live) and see for yourself.

Pardon any spelling and/or grammatical errors.

Thanks for the reply. I figured it would be the same as any normal city but seem to hear more than usual from there. I live in SF so I definitely know the concept of certain neighborhoods to stay away from at certain times. Thanks for the info and being willing to answer all these Q's.

[JD'izzle]

Thanks for your contribution, JD'izzle! Could you please elaborate on FSU's social scene?

Sure no prob. I'll give you the exhaustive version because I'll do anything to put off reading for Con Law:

We're divided into three 1L sections with about 80 students each. While I know some people in other sections, most students tend to only hang out with people from their sections. My section is very cliquey, just like in high school- there are groups of gamers and nerds, potheads, Greeks, plus quite a few people who basically go to class and then run straight home afterward and never go out (these tend to be people who are married or who went to undergrad at FSU and kept their old friends)

Most of the 1L class is a member of the Student Bar Association, which throws socials usually once a week. A lot of people show up to these, but once again they tend to only talk and drink with the people in their sections that they're friends with anyway. I recommend joining SBA: for a one-time cost of $100 you get more than that amount back in free cover, free bowling, and free beer over 3 years.

You won't have much to do with 2Ls and 3Ls. You'll definitely meet some at socials and at meetings for student organizations, but for the most part each year tends to stick to itself

Gossip is pretty bad in my section; for example right now there's a lot of girls who were best friends last semester but now hate each other because so-and-so hooked up with this guy, and someone else made out with so-and-so at a party that someone else liked, etc etc. It sounds like a bunch of 16 year-olds, but the average age here is probably 24-25, ha ha. One too many drunk hookups or rejections by the wrong girls and suddenly everyone is talking about you. I think its pretty damn funny actually, but thats probably because im sitting this out on the sidelines

Finally I've noticed that our year isn't very competitive- at least nothing like what I expected that's for certain. Sure there are a couple of gunners that everyone loves to hate, but people study together and most will give you notes if you ask. Class ranks came out last week and most people didnt make a big deal about it, to be honest

Hope this gives you some insight, but i'd talk to some other 1Ls too if I were you

[Tuyarp]

Adjutor, or any other FSU students, would you like to add to the social scene discussion?

Also, how do Mac users fare at FSU? Would I be okay with iWork or would I need to have MS Office?

[JD'izzle]

Adjutor, or any other FSU students, would you like to add to the social scene discussion?

Also, how do Mac users fare at FSU? Would I be okay with iWork or would I need to have MS Office?

I dont think it will be a problem. A lot of people have Macs here, and the exam taking software supports Leopard OS

[adjutor]

Adjutor, or any other FSU students, would you like to add to the social scene discussion?

Also, how do Mac users fare at FSU? Would I be okay with iWork or would I need to have MS Office?

I love the social scene at FSU law, it is probably in my top 3 attributes of this school that makes it so great. I read through JD'izzle's post and see where he/she is coming from on some things. For example, you will tend to be friends/acquaintances with mainly people in your section; this is because you will be with them in every class, everyday. That being said, I had friends in all the sections because as JD'izzle pointed out students align themselves with other like-minded students. The word cliquey carries a negative connotation that I wouldn't necessarily use in this situation. I'd rather posit that you will make friends, a lot of them, in a very short amount of time (like 2-4 weeks) and these will most likely be you go-to friends for 1L year. Going out to the bar, socials, school clubs will increase your chances of making friends outside your section, and grade.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I was in a fraternity in undergrad and came to law school knowing one other guy in my section. I now have friends from many different schools, who were in different sections, all because they too like to do similar things as me. I think if you want to come to law school to have a great time, come to FSU law. If you want to come to law school to get a great education, come to FSU law. If you like to study 24/7 and don't want to go out to the bars, great, come to FSU law. This school can be whatever you want to make it.

A ton of kids have Macs, no worries you'll fit right in.

[keg411]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I was in a fraternity in undergrad and came to law school knowing one other guy in my section. I now have friends from many different schools, who were in different sections, all because they too like to do similar things as me. I think if you want to come to law school to have a great time, come to FSU law. If you want to come to law school to get a great education, come to FSU law. If you like to study 24/7 and don't want to go out to the bars, great, come to FSU law. This school can be whatever you want to make it.

Is JD'rizzle correct in that if you were in a fraternity/sorority in UG that's who you'd hang out with in law school at FSU? I was in a sorority in undergrad but it was years ago, and I dunno if it's something I want to focus on while in law school and trying to do well (want to party, but there are certain aspects of Greek life that probably would best be not gone back to ). Or is it just something you've noticed in your class and you'll just find friends that you get along with no matter what they did in undergrad and it just "seems" that way in your year?

Also, have you talked to any 2L's/3L's about how bad the situation is job-wise out of FSU? I know the person I talked to at the NY Forum back in the Fall seemed optimistic, but I'm interested on what you've been seeing among classmates? How about the 1L Summer job search?

[JD'izzle]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I was in a fraternity in undergrad and came to law school knowing one other guy in my section. I now have friends from many different schools, who were in different sections, all because they too like to do similar things as me. I think if you want to come to law school to have a great time, come to FSU law. If you want to come to law school to get a great education, come to FSU law. If you like to study 24/7 and don't want to go out to the bars, great, come to FSU law. This school can be whatever you want to make it.

Is JD'rizzle correct in that if you were in a fraternity/sorority in UG that's who you'd hang out with in law school at FSU? I was in a sorority in undergrad but it was years ago, and I dunno if it's something I want to focus on while in law school and trying to do well (want to party, but there are certain aspects of Greek life that probably would best be not gone back to ). Or is it just something you've noticed in your class and you'll just find friends that you get along with no matter what they did in undergrad and it just "seems" that way in your year?

Also, have you talked to any 2L's/3L's about how bad the situation is job-wise out of FSU? I know the person I talked to at the NY Forum back in the Fall seemed optimistic, but I'm interested on what you've been seeing among classmates? How about the 1L Summer job search?

You can hang out with whomever you like, I'm just pointing out that I've noticed that people who were Greek in UG tend to socialize together here, maybe because of common interests or whatever. For example there is the "hot girl" group of Florida Gator sorority girls who all hang out together (some people call them the "wolfpack" or the "UF cheerleaders).

I was not in a frat myself, but I hang out with a wide variety of people- some I met at orientation, others in class, others doing intramurals, etc etc

[Tuyarp]

Do a lot of people pursue joint degrees?

Where can we get a look at placement stats?

How diverse is FSU politically and ethnically?

[adjutor]

Is JD'rizzle correct in that if you were in a fraternity/sorority in UG that's who you'd hang out with in law school at FSU? Or is it just something you've noticed in your class and you'll just find friends that you get along with no matter what they did in undergrad and it just "seems" that way in your year?

Also, have you talked to any 2L's/3L's about how bad the situation is job-wise out of FSU? I know the person I talked to at the NY Forum back in the Fall seemed optimistic, but I'm interested on what you've been seeing among classmates? How about the 1L Summer job search?

I was trying to say that I hang out with all types of people, not just with Greek friends from UF. You can make friends with people who are just like you or nothing like you, the population of students varies quite widely.

The situation job-wise out of FSU is as bad as it is across the country. Facing double digit unemployment is not going to make finding a job easy unless you are in a T14 school. Knowing people in the legal field and having a stacked resume will help tremendously, but it is still tough out there.

I was a fortunate enough to have a 1L summer job which many of my classmates were not able to acquire. I was able to get this based upon previous work experience and dedication to finding work. If nothing else you can always go to school during your 1L summer.

Do a lot of people pursue joint degrees?

Where can we get a look at placement stats?

How diverse is FSU politically and ethnically?

I don't think the words "a lot" would be an accurate representation of the # of people doing joint degrees. They are definitely out there, just not a huge number, maybe a couple dozen if I had to guess.

Ninety-eight percent of the graduating class of 2008 was placed within nine months of graduation. Other than that I guess you could contact the placement office for more detailed, and up-to-date #s.

FSU is very diverse politically; there are clubs for every partisan group you could want. Ethnically I think FSU is on par with any other law school if not better. Recently Hispanic Business magazine (2009) ranks us the nation’s 3rd best law school for Hispanic students. There are people of all backgrounds at FSU. I am not going to be misleading, there are more white students than any other race, but this is what you are going to find at most any law school in this country.

[Tuyarp]

Do you guys know how difficult it is to become a research assistant for professor?

Also, do you know anything about the Gubernatorial Fellowship?

Thanks!

[ame05d]

I know two people who are research assisting for a professor in whose class they both consistently spoke up in (read: every day) and made A's in, but I haven't heard of any other 1L's securing that kind of position.

As for the social aspect, I agree that "cliquey" may be the wrong word. I have a close group of friends in my section, but some of my very best friends are in other sections, and I feel that the students here in general are very friendly and very eager to meet new people. Additionally, while the 1Ls may not be super close w/ the 2 and 3L's, I've managed to make friends w/ both just by interacting w/ people in the library and at social events. I'm not necessarily one to make friends easily, but I had no problem coming here. I met tons of people during orientation, and you don't have to go out all the time to be in the know about things. That being said, law school is vverry high school when it comes to gossiping and hooking up, etc. I think part of the problem is that most of us are so busy w/ school that when we do go out it is usually to a law school event (either sponsored by SBA or just a party/going out thing that everyone knows about), and so you are around the same people constantly. That mixed w/ alcohol usually leads to someone hooking up w/ someone who was previously hooking up w/ someone else, or whatever. I went to fsu for undergrad, but most of my friends have left tallahassee, and I RARELY see the ones who are still here b/c most of my life revolves around law school, including the social aspects.

As for professors, some are better than others, but I have been impressed overall. Additionally, I know there are professors that I hate that other students love, and vice verse, so any one person's opinion shouldn't really count for much regarding each professor. I think in the end you are learning it all on your own anyway, and anyone who says they learned the bulk of the material reading and sitting in class everyday is just not being honest with themselves. I mean, it definitely helps when you do the reading and show up to class and participate and take notes, but in the end you are going to be relearning everything from the beginning anyway to prepare for exams, which i'm sure you all know is the only thing that matters.

Crime in tally, I've lived here for almost 6 years and I've never been a victim of crime, but it does happen (robberies, rape, etc.). I think like everyone else said, just be careful and know where the bad parts of town are. In general, I feel safe at FSU and have spent many a night there after hours w/o incident. It's definitely not to a level that would warrant hesitation in attending.

OCI for 1Ls seemed a little slim to me, but this is probably b/c I'm looking to stay in tallahassee for the summer, and a lot of the OCI positions are in other places, either other FL cities or GA or AL. I have spoken to quite a few 2 and 3L's on the matter, however, and work is out there if you are persistent. A couple of my older friends have told me they just mass mailed their resume and cold called places until someone would hire them. Some positions will be unpaid, but apparently this is more like a test, and if you do decent work after a week or two they will pay you anyway. The placement office is beyond helpful. They took my resume and transformed it into something submittable, and changed things I would have never thought to. The placement office Symplicity program is also immensely helpful, as there are tons of firms listed on there seeking 1Ls that do not participate in OCI.

As far as complaints, I am the wrong person to ask. I went into law school as blind as the next person, did a moderate amount of work during the semester, and skipped most of my classes at the end to outline and study. I ended up in the top 20%, but feel that those in the top 5-10 truly deserved it as they were the ones notorious for studying all day, everyday. In general, people don't talk too much about grades, but you can kind of figure out where people ended up. I think most people ended up where they were supposed to. I have friends that did amazing, and friends that did not so hot, and I think it comes down to knowing how to take exams and understanding what it is they are truly looking for.

Not sure what else to write, but I do not regret coming to FSU. I am in state so for me the higher ranked schools I got into were not worth the increase in price. I feel like I'm getting a quality education at a school that I truly love for 1/2 of what I would pay somewhere else.

The end, good luck!

[darknightbegins]

I am currently on hold at FSU. Any advice on how to get off of hold? Also how easy is it to get in state tuition for out of state people like myself. I have heard in other threads that at UF you have little chance of getting in state tuition after the first year. If that is the case at FSU then I would be paying almost the same to go there as UM and I would have to think long and hard which place I would rather spend 3 years of my life at.

[kevinm]

I'm another 1L at FSU, so I'll try to expand on some of the topics already covered.

Socially, FSU is amazing. People have always been extremely eager to help out with notes and all of that. I could walk up to absolutely anyone in my section and ask for notes/outlines, and they would totally be cool with it. Trading outlines and notes last semester was really what saved me on finals, and I know that will be the same this semester. As others have mentioned, however, law school is eerily similar to high school. Like, unbelievably and uncomfortably similar...we have approximately 250 people in our 1L class, which is further split into three ~80 person sections that share *every* class together. If you can imagine high school with alcohol, that's pretty much what law school is. Yeah, there's plenty of adult-themed drama, but if you can stay away from it and generally attempt to be 'liked' by everyone in your section, you'll fair extremely well here.

Going a little further on the social experience, during my first semester, there seemed to be a lot more partying and whatnot going on. I guess that's just because everyone was new, and everyone thought if you didn't lock in on a social network (clique) immediately, you'd be condemned to friday nights in the library by yourself. That's the one fallacy I wish I would've recognized early on... don't form cliques. It's easy, it's comfortable, but don't get sucked in. While the high school 'exclusivity' of cliques does not at all exist (which is to say you won't get stared at or treated horribly by 'associating' with people outside of your clique), it's obvious to tell who's a part of which groups. It's stupid and immature, but it still happens.

Moving on to the classes, I can honestly say that the professors I have are incredibly approachable, nice, and at times, hilarious. They're teachers first and foremost; with the exception of one or two who routinely remind us that, hey, they're published academics, the overwhelming majority have a "true" open-door policy. They want students to come to office hours and talk, not just about class, but about anything. A couple actually have sign-up sheets to have lunch with them during the week, which is something I have never before seen at any school. There's no denying that studying law can suck massively, and the professors here really know that. That's why they try to incorporate different methods of teaching (one had a 'Dr. Seuss' theme last semester..) to make the sometimes dense and supremely boring subject matter a little more tolerable, and even fun.

Moving onto the area itself... okay, I'm not going to lie, I'm not a huge fan of Tallahassee, haha. I'm definitely more of a big city person, and I absolutely hate driving to class. I decided to live a bit off campus (not too far, maybe four miles from the school), which requires driving to class in the morning. Everyone told me that parking here is miserable, and that was something about which I was terrified, since I had gotten hundreds of tickets in undergrad. However, since being here, I haven't had a problem at all. I've never had trouble finding parking around the law school, but sometimes I've had to pay (there's a lot next to the school that you can pay like $4 to park in for the day, or alternatively pay for a permit to park there for the semester). So, living off campus is definitely an option.

Tallahassee does, however, offer probably the best opportunity to get involved in state/federal law in the Southeast. The 1st DCA is literally right across the street from the law school, and the Supreme Court isn't too much further. Moreover, Tallahassee is the capital of Florida, meaning there are a lot of governmental offices fairly close to the school (definitely within a mile).

Regarding safety, I've never had a problem here. I've drunkenly stumbled around at night, and have been in some pretty dumb situations, but I have never had a problem. During undergrad, I lived in a really bad area, so Tallahassee is a considerable step up. I don't really know what else to say about safety other than mentioning FSU's alert system, which seems pretty solid. For example, around the time of finals last semester, they texted us with information about a tornado warning.

To summarize, I think the most important thing to keep in mind when making your decision is that it's a balancing act. Think about every factor you value, and make your decision based on your personal likes and dislikes. For me, I love big cities and I really love going to see shows, going to museums, galleries, etc. I would've loved to be in NYC or DC with access to MoMA or any of the Smithsonian facilities, but I also wanted to be somewhere with mild winters. For me, being in a warmer climate was a major factor. Additionally, I needed to be at a school where I'm not just a number and where I wouldn't have to worry about cutthroat gunners slashing my tires the day of final exams. I can genuinely say that I feel pretty warm at FSU, both literally (although it has been unseasonably cold lately) and metaphorically.

Hope that helps, let me know if you have any questions.

[mango26]

I am currently on hold at FSU. Any advice on how to get off of hold? Also how easy is it to get in state tuition for out of state people like myself. I have heard in other threads that at UF you have little chance of getting in state tuition after the first year. If that is the case at FSU then I would be paying almost the same to go there as UM and I would have to think long and hard which place I would rather spend 3 years of my life at.

I have the same question regarding getting in-state tuition after 1L

[adjutor]

I have the same question regarding getting in-state tuition after 1L

After your 1st year you have to change your residency and then you get in-state tuition for 2L and 3L.

[mango26]

I have the same question regarding getting in-state tuition after 1L

After your 1st year you have to change your residency and then you get in-state tuition for 2L and 3L.

like darknightbegins said, i have also heard that it has become more difficult to do this, which worries me, because as much as i love fsu, i don't think i can justify paying out of state tuition for three years.

[adjutor]

I have the same question regarding getting in-state tuition after 1L

After your 1st year you have to change your residency and then you get in-state tuition for 2L and 3L.

like darknightbegins said, i have also heard that it has become more difficult to do this, which worries me, because as much as i love fsu, i don't think i can justify paying out of state tuition for three years.

I wouldn't believe me either, I suggest you contact the Florida State University Office of Financial Aid at 850.644.5716. Ask for Gail Rogers, she is the financial aid counselor for Florida State University College of Law. Or email her at grogers@fsu.edu. I hope this helps you both.

[mango26]

I have the same question regarding getting in-state tuition after 1L

After your 1st year you have to change your residency and then you get in-state tuition for 2L and 3L.

like darknightbegins said, i have also heard that it has become more difficult to do this, which worries me, because as much as i love fsu, i don't think i can justify paying out of state tuition for three years.

I wouldn't believe me either, I suggest you contact the Florida State University Office of Financial Aid at 850.644.5716. Ask for Gail Rogers, she is the financial aid counselor for Florida State University College of Law. Or email her at grogers@fsu.edu. I hope this helps you both.

thank you for your answers and for the contact info!

[Arpedzio]

Thank you everyone for your posts. After reading this thread I am certain that I'll be attending FSU.

A question for all of you: What are you planning on specializing on/what did you specialize on? How geared towards your specialization is your education?

Also, I am interested in the environmental and civil rights tracks. Do any of you have any insight on these tracks regarding jobs, classes, the certificate courses, etc?

Thanks

[melyanair]

Any chance of getting into FSU with a 3.8 / 154? This is my first choice school, but I applied late in the game, and just took the LSAT in Feb, so my file hasn't even gone complete yet.

[set88]

I have to say, FSU students really seem committed to selling the school, both here and when I visited. They seem genuinely happy and that's something you want to see. I really get a good vibe from you guys. Thanks for all the answers, you've been verrrry helpful. It's making me seriously consider FSU where I otherwise might not.

[eros]

An additional thanks to all the current law students for generously sharing their experiences. As someone currently trying to decide between UF, FSU and a couple of long shot out of state possibilities, your words have been greatly appreciated in helping me make my decision (for the record I'm leaning FSU).

[adjutor]

An additional thanks to all the current law students for generously sharing their experiences. As someone currently trying to decide between UF, FSU and a couple of long shot out of state possibilities, your words have been greatly appreciated in helping me make my decision (for the record I'm leaning FSU).

Though I am no longer a "1L Taking Questions", I am more than happy to continue answering questions (now as a 2L) if people find my point of view and answers helpful. I hope all those who browse this board find what they are looking for, if not, just ask away.