BigLaw Trusts and Estates/Tax? Forum

[onesundaymorning]

Hi everyone.

Are there any BL firms with robust T&E or tax practices? I'm singularly interested in those fields and was just wondering.

Thank you!

[The Lsat Airbender]

Companies have in-house lawyers and Big4 accountancies for their bread-and-butter tax work, so you generally don't see "robust" tax practices anywhere. Most big corporate firms do have a decent number of tax specialists who support other work ("M&A tax," e.g.). The reputation of those practices tends to track with the reputation of the firm overall, although I'm sure there are some individual tax partners who punch above their firms' weight.

Trusts and estates work isn't really a biglaw practice area. The clientele are different, mostly individuals as opposed to corporations, and T&E doesn't feed or get fed by mainline biglaw services the way that tax does. Many firms have a few T&E people around but they might get paid differently or not be on the partner track.

[askmeanything]

A number of big law firms have well established T&E practices. McDermott is widely considered the top shop and the practice group is a revenue driver for the firm, unlike some other T&E groups that that act more as service groups. Holland & Knight also has a well established group, McGuireWoods as well. Also somewhere like Withers, which people outside the field may not be familiar with because it only does Private Client work, but it is considered the best for international estate planning. You should check out the Chambers High Net Worth Private Wealth Law rankings. Helpful to look at the regional and state rankings too because there is variation and a highly regarded boutique may be considered the best in the market you want to be in.

[onesundaymorning]

Thank you!

The Chambers suggestion is a great one.

Is T&E an industry in which a person could strike out on their own? I.e. open up your own office and find your own clients? I've read that T&E is "50% psychologist and 50% tax whiz" and it's like... my dream job description lol.

[gekko]

onesundaymorning, You definitely could do estate planning solo. That's actually what I'm going to school later in life after selling a financial planning practice to do specifically because I saw such a need. Might as well pick up this area by going to law school while under a non-compete. I was a CFP in private wealth after a different area of finance and we constantly struggled to find a semi-competent person to do estate planning work. No one cared what type of firm affiliation as long as competent.

Any bozo with a shingle on the second floor of a strip mall who also does divorce, immigration, dui, personal injury and 50 other things will do a simple will and trust package by putting someone's relatives name into a template, but very few actually know how or have any interest in doing the type of things that would get business driven from wealth management firms on a consistent basis. Planners are always open to people who have recently done or have a good understanding of how CRTs, ILITs and other trust types related to wealth management work. Most of the time I'd talk to someone's general attorney and they'd want an explanation of anything beyond a simple revocable living trust that was needed, grilling me about why something was needed from an advanced tax standpoint.

There is a firm belief among those in the wealth management field to NEVER send this type of work to anyone who isn't a specialist. There's just too much of a reputation out there for people doing a suck job of it when it happens to come across their plate since they can fill out the template and bill immediately even if not a lot. I can't tell you how many insanely incompetent trusts I've seen. You have a good shot of distinguishing yourself if you want to specialize in that area, especially if you're one of the few people who learns a bit about how a wealth management firm works but isn't also trying to simultaneously double dip in that area. (Nothing wrong with that per se but would cut off referrals from those in the industry.) Of course there are also downsides. Some people no matter how rich are going to try to go to a discount service for this work.

[onesundaymorning]

Thank you, gekko! This was an interesting and insightful post.

How would I ingratiate myself with wealth management firms? Is it too forward to just drop by and introduce myself (post-JD, of course)? I've always been a go-getter which is how I opened my current business.

Maybe we should link up in a few years when I finish law school.

[gekko]

There are all kinds of ways, but here are a few:

-Discount your services to anyone in the financial services industry.
-Offer to do seminars or webinars on an issue relevant to those in wealth management such as ILITs, CRTs, and the other acronyms.
-Join the financial planning association and attend a local chapters events, if applicable.
-Market your services during lunch at most national firms (Morgan, Merrill, UBS). This happens almost every day by a product wholesaler in branches that are medium sized and above. For smaller shops like boutiques, just call the main producers/client facing people and offer to serve as a point of reference, especially on things related to wealth management.
-When something relevant changes (big estate tax limitation change or anything else) call proactively and offer to serve as a point of reference.
-Whenever you get your OWN business, call the advisor (if any) the client is already working with and ask if there's anything you should be aware of that would mutually affect one another's work. Often advisors, attorneys and CPAs think the other is going to screw up something they have going on so knowing that someone isn't trying to upend what you're piece of the puzzle is can be a big boost. Develop the rapport on that call and then offer your assistance with any other clients the advisor may have.

Unfortunately most of the estate planning attorney's I've worked with are extremely high on the knowledge and skill meter but not only could not sell their way out of a paper bag, often found a way to prevent business from coming in their direction.

This is a really small list, but doing even a small amount of what's on it would immediately distinguish you from 99% of estate planning attorneys. When I've needed something done, it's a struggle to get one on the phone to GIVE business to. Definitely up for the "link up." Happy to point to anything of assistance based on your specific geographic location.

[anonymous114]

Holland & Knight is vault 100 status and has a specialized trusts and estates group. This area also goes by the name Private Client Services. I think there’s more information on reddit about working successfully in trusts and estates than I’ve found on this forum yet. Reddit posters “whilz” and “haley_joel_osteen” are prodigious contributors and generous with tips about doing this kind of work at the levels you’re seeking.