When does it make sense for someone to take up an LLM Forum

[ulyssescat5]

Why do many believe that taking up LLM is only worthwhile when it specializes on tax? And do you agree? Does an LLM hurt one’s job prospects?

[cavalier1138]

Why do many believe that taking up LLM is only worthwhile when it specializes on tax? And do you agree? Does an LLM hurt one’s job prospects?

Because for students with a JD, there's no value-add from a non-tax LLM. Unless you're a foreign lawyer trying to move to the US, employers aren't looking for LLM credentials, because they generally don't indicate any special expertise or skill. The only exception to this rule (as you noted) is a tax LLM from one of the top programs (NYU, Georgetown, and--I believe--Florida). Tax groups specifically look for LLMs when hiring some of their attorneys.

If you're an American student with a JD, a non-tax LLM might not hurt your job prospects, but you'll end up wasting one year and at least $50k on a useless set of letters to put after your name. And it bears mentioning that the tax LLM actually might have a negative impact on your job prospects if you aren't 100% sold on practicing tax law. That particularly LLM does signal that you have an area of substantive expertise/specialization, and you're less likely to get hired in other practice areas if you have one.

[ulyssescat5]

Why do many believe that taking up LLM is only worthwhile when it specializes on tax? And do you agree? Does an LLM hurt one’s job prospects?

Because for students with a JD, there's no value-add from a non-tax LLM. Unless you're a foreign lawyer trying to move to the US, employers aren't looking for LLM credentials, because they generally don't indicate any special expertise or skill. The only exception to this rule (as you noted) is a tax LLM from one of the top programs (NYU, Georgetown, and--I believe--Florida). Tax groups specifically look for LLMs when hiring some of their attorneys.

If you're an American student with a JD, a non-tax LLM might not hurt your job prospects, but you'll end up wasting one year and at least $50k on a useless set of letters to put after your name. And it bears mentioning that the tax LLM actually might have a negative impact on your job prospects if you aren't 100% sold on practicing tax law. That particularly LLM does signal that you have an area of substantive expertise/specialization, and you're less likely to get hired in other practice areas if you have one.

I know of someone who is a foreign lawyer looking to work as a lawyer in the US. Does it make sense for him to take up LLM (in tax) AND THEN take up a JD?

[cavalier1138]

Why do many believe that taking up LLM is only worthwhile when it specializes on tax? And do you agree? Does an LLM hurt one’s job prospects?

Because for students with a JD, there's no value-add from a non-tax LLM. Unless you're a foreign lawyer trying to move to the US, employers aren't looking for LLM credentials, because they generally don't indicate any special expertise or skill. The only exception to this rule (as you noted) is a tax LLM from one of the top programs (NYU, Georgetown, and--I believe--Florida). Tax groups specifically look for LLMs when hiring some of their attorneys.

If you're an American student with a JD, a non-tax LLM might not hurt your job prospects, but you'll end up wasting one year and at least $50k on a useless set of letters to put after your name. And it bears mentioning that the tax LLM actually might have a negative impact on your job prospects if you aren't 100% sold on practicing tax law. That particularly LLM does signal that you have an area of substantive expertise/specialization, and you're less likely to get hired in other practice areas if you have one.

I know of someone who is a foreign lawyer looking to work as a lawyer in the US. Does it make sense for him to take up LLM (in tax) AND THEN take up a JD?

Maybe. It entirely depends on your friend's credentials and the certification requirements in the state where he wants to work. He's in a much better position to answer that question than I am, because foreign lawyers tend to communicate these requirements through their networks.

[QContinuum]

I know of someone who is a foreign lawyer looking to work as a lawyer in the US. Does it make sense for him to take up LLM (in tax) AND THEN take up a JD?

Maybe. It entirely depends on your friend's credentials and the certification requirements in the state where he wants to work. He's in a much better position to answer that question than I am, because foreign lawyers tend to communicate these requirements through their networks.

While I agree with cav that it depends on the friend's credentials and whether the friend is eligible to take the bar exam solely on the basis of their foreign legal education (generally the answer will be no, for most foreigners, but there are some exceptions that vary by state), I'd add that it's very unusual to do a Tax LL.M. before doing a U.S. J.D. If your friend is sure they want to do a U.S. J.D. (e.g., because they want to practice in a state(s) that require a U.S. J.D. to take the bar - many/most U.S. states are like this), it makes sense to do the J.D. first. One, that preserves their flexibility to go into fields other than tax law, and two, J.D. hiring is oodles easier than Tax LL.M. hiring - even into tax law positions.

Take NYU as an example - the undisputed strongest Tax LL.M. program in the country. A terrific outcome for NYU Tax LL.M.s is a BigLaw tax offer. IIRC, this is limited to the ~top quarter of the class, and isn't guaranteed even for the top quarter. A good outcome for NYU Tax LL.M.s - typically requiring median or above grades - is a Big4 offer, which pays significantly less than BigLaw. In contrast, a standard outcome - even from well below median from NYU's J.D. program is BigLaw, with BigLaw tax very possible.

Now, if your friend is 200% sure they want to do tax law, and your friend's already bar-eligible in their state(s) of interest based on their foreign law degree*, and your friend would be perfectly happy to forego doing a U.S. J.D. so long as they get a job out of a Tax LL.M. program - then it may make sense to do the NYU or Georgetown Tax LL.M. program first, and see what happens. But again, only do that if all of the above conditions are met. cav is absolutely right that the Tax LL.M. credential limits one's ability to land a non-tax position, because it sends such a strong signal that one's "true" interest is tax law.

(*If your friend needs an LL.M. to be eligible to take the bar exam in their state(s) of interest, Tax LL.M. programs are unlikely to be able to confer that eligibility. This is because states - such as New York - may impose specific bar-subject requirements for an LL.M. to be a bar-qualifying LL.M. - see https://law.yale.edu/student-life/caree ... w-york-bar which is a pretty good guide to the New York bar's requirements.)

Also, a last note on Tax LL.M. programs. NYU's the #1 by far, followed by Georgetown which is pretty far behind. Those are really the only two Tax LL.M. programs I'd recommend to a foreign lawyer. Beyond Georgetown come Florida and Northwestern (with maybe a slight historical edge to Florida), but Florida and NW are so much weaker that, given that foreigners already have a much harder time than U.S. citizens/green card holders when it comes to getting hired, I don't think Florida/NW would be a good investment of time or money for a foreign lawyer. (I'd further add that Florida's Tax LL.M. program primarily places in Florida, and - if I recall correctly, but definitely double-check this - Florida requires a U.S. J.D. to be eligible to take the Florida bar exam.)

Tagging nealric who may have further comments or corrections to the above - neal's an actual tax lawyer, while I am not (though I seriously considered going into tax law at one point).

[nealric]

Tagging nealric who may have further comments or corrections to the above - neal's an actual tax lawyer, while I am not (though I seriously considered going into tax law at one point).

I think that's a good analysis. For what it's worth, though I interact with many NYU and Georgetown LLMs on a regular basis, I've only come across one Florida LLM in a professional setting, and that was someone who was born and raised in Florida and attended well over 30 years ago. I've never come across a NW LLM. I'm sure that would change if I practiced in Florida or Chicago, but it gives you an idea of the reach of the respective programs.

Keep in mind that a lot of LLM students aren't using it to seek employment. I already had a permanent associate offer when I started my LLM, so recruiting didn't really factor in. In fact, I'd say only around 1/2 to 2/3 were actively seeking U.S.-based employment in my Georgetown LLM program. Many were already in biglaw or the government and doing it part time or were using it to bolster their foreign credentials.

Though I didn't participate in recruiting, I also got the impression that Biglaw hiring out of LLM programs was still often partially dependent on your JD credentials. A T14 JD was going to have an easier time in LLM recruiting than a Third-tier JD even if the third tier JD might have a bit better LLM grades. LLM grading can sometimes lack good comparability because class sizes are smaller and largely taught by adjuncts who tend to be relatively lenient on grading. Big 4 recruiters also like to see more accounting backgrounds (due to the nature of their business), and would likely preference a CPA with middling grades over someone with no pre-law tax or accounting background and top 1/3 grades. There were various tax consulting firms that also recruited, but they are generally not places you want to end up (they are usually devoted to making claims for some specific tax credit like the R&D credit and wouldn't be a great place to start your career).

[QContinuum]

Many thanks for responding to my tag and providing that additional info - which should be very helpful to OP and their friend!