Working You Way into BigLaw Forum

[cpo335]

Is it possible to work one's way into a BigLaw firm if one starts from a T4 school? For instance, attend T4 school, get a shitlaw job, and eventually try to lateral (I hope I'm using this term correctly) into BigLaw? Can one work one's way up? For clarification, I'm not talking about NYC BigLaw, but maybe more Boston BigLaw.

Thank you.

[cavalier1138]

Can it happen? Sure.

Is it likely to happen? Not at all.

Please take the replies to your previous threads on this subject seriously: don't go to a T4 school on the expectation of having any legal career, much less a high-paying one.

[QContinuum]

Can it happen? Sure.

Is it likely to happen? Not at all.

Please take the replies to your previous threads on this subject seriously: don't go to a T4 school on the expectation of having any legal career, much less a high-paying one.

cav is right. It's very rare. BigLaw overwhelmingly hires: 1) from 2L OCI at select schools; 2) from 2Ls at other schools with tip-top grades; and 3) BigLaw laterals.

We have seen the rare story on here of folks who start out in ID or in state government, who develops the right skillset and the right connections and laterals to midlaw or even BigLaw. But it's absolutely the exception, not the norm.

[objctnyrhnr]

Is it possible to work one's way into a BigLaw firm if one starts from a T4 school? For instance, attend T4 school, get a shitlaw job, and eventually try to lateral (I hope I'm using this term correctly) into BigLaw? Can one work one's way up? For clarification, I'm not talking about NYC BigLaw, but maybe more Boston BigLaw.

Thank you.

I echo what others have said. But also, if you’re going to do something that’s not biglaw or midlaw or a reputable boutique (keyword reputable because I happen to know that in boston a bunch of shitlawyers get together sometimes and call themselves a boutique), you’d be better off working your way into a state govt niche and looking to clerk and then getting in.

In other words, if you go to too crappy a firm from too crappy a school, you’ll inevitably pigeon hole yourself. If you play your cards right, it’s possible (albeit still quite hard) to avoid that in the right spot in state govt.

[Mullens]

It is far, far easier to work to get into a better law school and get biglaw from that school than get super lucky from a T4 (talking like less than 5% of it happening at any point in your career).

[objctnyrhnr]

It is far, far easier to work to get into a better law school and get biglaw from that school than get super lucky from a T4 (talking like less than 5% of it happening at any point in your career).

Yep. Plus this times 100. Is it easier to actually learn how to do basic reasoning? Or try try your luck with networking and applying and cover letters and interviewing, perhaps without an end in sight, on top of your normal job? You decide.

[Bingo_Bongo]

Yeah, it's possible to eventually get there, but don't make it your strategy if you can avoid it. If you're already in that boat, working your way up to biglaw is something you can do if you really set out to do it.

I personally went from a third tier and worked my way up firms until I landed a gig at a well respected regional one (albeit, still not what anyone would call "big law", but I had a decent six figure salary). Then I did a 180 and became a prosecutor because I burnt out.

Some of my friends I graduated with worked their way up to Vault 100 firms. And by "some", I actually do mean "some" (as not in one, but several). So, it is something you can do with enough time. Granted, the third tier school I went to is actually bordering second tier and is somewhat decently respected locally. Definitely closer to a second tier than a fourth.

But, again, don't make it a strategy, if you can avoid it.

[LSATWiz.com]

This sometimes happens when a lawyer works for a boutique or specialized smaller firm, and the firm gets acquired by a larger firm, when someone works for a major client of the firm, or when someone has experience working for the DA or the government with experience that's relevant to a specific practice group. The issue is it can be more difficult to get hired by the boutique or the client than the firm directly. The odds of working for a small firm doing insurance defense or the like (a common outcome from these schools), and then segueing into big law are virtually 0%. It's not merely that the fourth tier school is not prestigious, but that your prior experience has 0 value to them. If you go to a fourth tier school, and don't get a job at a boutique practicing IP, a prominent government/DA position, or work in-house at a bank, then the odds of working your way into big law are close to 0% or much lower than they would be the average 1L attending one of these schools who probably has somewhere from a 1-5% chance. If your goal is big law, then this is an absolutely crazy plan, because the odds are much lower than your odds of winning a lot of money in most forms of gambling. We're literally speaking about slot-machine type statistics.

[LSATWiz.com]

Just to add a bit more:

Whether you're a good lawyer is only relevant to the extent that experience is relevant to the specific work these places do. For instance, many of the lawyers who advertise on television outearn prominent big law partners, but would be unlikely to ever be hired for big law jobs because their prior experience is irrelevant to what the firm does. It doesn't really have anything to do with prestige, but the ability to be profitable working with everyday individual plaintiffs does not extend to say the ability to be profitable working with banks. Being able to successfully win a $100MM in settlement funds for asbestos victims is not going to carry any value to most big law lit groups.

Conversely, let's say you are working for a firm that handles class action cases and work on the plaintiff's side of antitrust class actions - this experience is directly relevant to big law firms who typically work on the defensive side of such cases, because any experience you develop at smaller firm A is directly relevant to bigger law firm B, and arguably more valuable as the plaintiff's side is frequently more lightly staffed, and the cases are so nuanced that only a small percentage of lawyers have exposure to them. The problem is that it's often more difficult to get hired from these places, and most of the lawyers working there have similar credentials to their big law counterparts, and have significantly greater peak potential as a small number of these firms achieve settlements with attorney's fees in the hundreds of millions literally every few years - the partners on these cases are likely dramatically outearning partners at big firms at least insofar as these individual cases. However, there isn't a ton of risk as these firms really only take cases they already know have a very good chance of winning. Anything I noted here likely applies to mass tort as well though few big law firms have mass tort practice groups. I'd also argue that if you added any value at all on a few such cases at a plaintiff's firm, it would probably be dumb to voluntarily jump ship.

So to make a long story short, is it possible? Yes, but it's exceedingly rare both because the type of prior experience you need is even more elusive from a fourth tier school and for those with this prior experience, transitioning to big law isn't necessarily a smart move. The idea you can come out of a lower tiered school, prove yourself at a typical small firm, and lateral to big law is misguided. It simply won't happen.

[Bingo_Bongo]

^ That's all true, but I'll add that patience and baby-steps can work wonders. Yeah, if your first job is negotiating with insurance companies, or sending demand letters to businesses that aren't ADA compliant, you're obviously not going to be able to jump directly to big law.

But you can keep your eye open for job opportunities that will bring you closer, and job jump until you eventually get to a place where you can make the realistic leap to biglaw. It's like that game where they trade straws up to a Lambo. I've seen it happen enough with people I know.

Heck, people change entire industries all the time. It's definitely not out of the question to be able to make subtle changes to your job description to the point you eventually acquire skills that biglaw wants, and then lateral to a good firm. It takes time, but it's not completely crazy if you're dead set on doing it and have the drive to job jump when you see opportunities.

All that being said, if you want biglaw, the far easier thing to do is go to a well reputed school and just get hired there your 2L summer.