Choosing a CA school to transfer from? Forum

[dietryinggirl]

Top law schools are out of my reach with my LSAT score. I'm most likely going to be able to only get into Pepperdine, Loyola, or UC Hastings as an SF native.

Of these schools, which would be the best school to start from? These schools actually are really prevalent in the 509s of the T20 schools. I really hope to be in the top 10% (I know there's no telling until I actually get into law school and see my first year grades, but I'm trying to be optimistic since I know I can be a good student) and transfer to a T14 or T20 school. The 509s show that a lot of the T14 schools take transfers from Hastings, but I think it might be because they have more students (closer to 300 students vs. the other schools which have a 1L class in the lower 200s)?

Any advice about these schools and the people that try to transfer out of there?

[stego]

Don't attend a law school that you wouldn't be happy graduating from.

[KMart]

Don't attend a law school that you wouldn't be happy graduating from.

This. Pick a school you'd be happy to go to for three years. If you do well, then you can think about transferring based on how well you did.

[JoshLyman13]

I messed up my undergraduate. Skipped classes for 2 years like crazy, graduated late, and now I have a LSAC GPA under 3.0 at a university in the top 20s even with near perfect 4.0s the semesters I decided to get my act together.

Top law schools are out of my reach with my GPA and LSAT score. I'm most likely going to be able to only get into Pepperdine, Loyola, or UC Hastings as a CA native.

Of these schools, which would be the best school to start from? These schools actually are really prevalent in the 509s of the T20 schools. I really hope to be in the top 10% (I know there's no telling until I actually get into law school and see my first year grades, but I'm trying to be optimistic since I know I can be a good student) and transfer to a T14 or T20 school. The 509s show that a lot of the T14 schools take transfers from Hastings, but I think it might be because they have more students (closer to 300 students vs. the other schools which have a 1L class in the lower 200s)?

Any advice about these schools and the people that try to transfer out of there?

These were the transfer numbers from those schools into t14s last year (excluding Cornell because they didn't list it on their 509):

UC Hastings had 27 (2 to HLS, 1 to SLS, 1 to CLS, 1 to NYU, 1 to UM, 19 to UC-B and 2 to GULC)
Pepperdine had 4 (1 to HLS, 2 to NYU, 1 to GULC)
Loyola had 1 (to GULC)

[TransferHopeful17]

Believing in yourself is very different from betting on yourself, and this is a pretty risky gamble if you wouldn't otherwise be happy graduating from the schools that you mentioned. I am not saying that this cannot or has not been done, but it's far from smart. If you choose to do it, Hastings is probably the best option, but you better take advantage of every opportunity to develop good studying habits, skills, etc, particularly with the debt you will take on living in San Francisco.

[Nebby]

I messed up my undergraduate. Skipped classes for 2 years like crazy, graduated late, and now I have a LSAC GPA under 3.0 at a university in the top 20s even with near perfect 4.0s the semesters I decided to get my act together.

Top law schools are out of my reach with my GPA and LSAT score. I'm most likely going to be able to only get into Pepperdine, Loyola, or UC Hastings as a CA native.

Of these schools, which would be the best school to start from? These schools actually are really prevalent in the 509s of the T20 schools. I really hope to be in the top 10% (I know there's no telling until I actually get into law school and see my first year grades, but I'm trying to be optimistic since I know I can be a good student) and transfer to a T14 or T20 school. The 509s show that a lot of the T14 schools take transfers from Hastings, but I think it might be because they have more students (closer to 300 students vs. the other schools which have a 1L class in the lower 200s)?

Any advice about these schools and the people that try to transfer out of there?

There's a 85% chance you won't have the grades necessary to transfer to the T14. Don't go to a law school with the intention of transferring. Law school success has too much unpredictability

[NoDayButToday]

.

[SFSpartan]

Can't really stress enough how imperative it is that you NOT go to a school with the intent of transferring away. At all of these schools, at least 60% of the class either (i) come in playing the transfer game; or (ii) gun for grades high enough so that they can get biglaw or transfer (this is a larger percentage of the class, and generally comes into play when people get a feel for what being at a school with 50% employment stats is really like). I can confirm that this is the case for UCH, and cannot tell you how many people were disappointed at the beginning of 2L year because they wanted to transfer but didn't have the grades to do so.

Additionally, there is some luck involved in transferring, simply because the grades you need have to be so high. I know of at least one student that had a major life event (think death in the family, major breakup, etc.) that resulted in them tanking a final or two. Even with a transcript filled with A and A- grades, a B- can be all it takes to keep you from transferring.

The bottom line is that it's way easier to get a good LSAT score and go to a lower T14, UCLA, USC, etc. So focus on that.

[dietryinggirl]

Don't attend a law school that you wouldn't be happy graduating from.

This. Pick a school you'd be happy to go to for three years. If you do well, then you can think about transferring based on how well you did.

Nony is gonna move this to another forum because no 0Ls allowed in this forum, but...

I third this sentiment! I actually did this - went to a T1 1L school with intent to transfer - but I chose my 1L school very carefully, negotiated for the best scholarship I could get, and fully invested myself in the school while I was there. The prospect of transferring was very motivating for me to do well 1L year, but it was still a slim, unpredictable prospect and I knew I had to own where I was, too. If you're considering this risky route, you should visit everywhere you're considering at least once and carefully weigh your options before committing some place. You have to really be happy with where you're going, because odds are that's where you will graduate from.

Believing in yourself is very different from betting on yourself, and this is a pretty risky gamble if you wouldn't otherwise be happy graduating from the schools that you mentioned. I am not saying that this cannot or has not been done, but it's far from smart. If you choose to do it, Hastings is probably the best option, but you better take advantage of every opportunity to develop good studying habits, skills, etc, particularly with the debt you will take on living in San Francisco.

There's a 85% chance you won't have the grades necessary to transfer to the T14. Don't go to a law school with the intention of transferring. Law school success has too much unpredictability

Can't really stress enough how imperative it is that you NOT go to a school with the intent of transferring away. At all of these schools, at least 60% of the class either (i) come in playing the transfer game; or (ii) gun for grades high enough so that they can get biglaw or transfer (this is a larger percentage of the class, and generally comes into play when people get a feel for what being at a school with 50% employment stats is really like). I can confirm that this is the case for UCH, and cannot tell you how many people were disappointed at the beginning of 2L year because they wanted to transfer but didn't have the grades to do so.

Additionally, there is some luck involved in transferring, simply because the grades you need have to be so high. I know of at least one student that had a major life event (think death in the family, major breakup, etc.) that resulted in them tanking a final or two. Even with a transcript filled with A and A- grades, a B- can be all it takes to keep you from transferring.

The bottom line is that it's way easier to get a good LSAT score and go to a lower T14, UCLA, USC, etc. So focus on that.

Thank you guys for all the solid advice. This is the kind of brutal truth I needed I think my biggest concern is that I would like to go to Loyola just thinking about going somewhere for the full 3 years because of their alumni and job prospects. They do well in Big Law, Public Sector, and etc in Southern CA. But Hastings seems to have a LOT of transfer students since they make that T1 cut, but they don't do so hot with employment (I live currently in SF so living cost is not the problem). Are there really that many students also trying to transfer? I had no idea. I assumed it was maybe 50-70 students at most.

Retaking the LSAT is not an option for me anymore. My 3rd retake and I scored in the low 160s. With my GPA, I can't even get into a law school like UCI/UC Davis (schools I would REALLY consider staying all 3 years) because my LSAT score is in their 25% and GPA not even in their 25%

[dietryinggirl]

These were the transfer numbers from those schools into t14s last year (excluding Cornell because they didn't list it on their 509):

UC Hastings had 27 (2 to HLS, 1 to SLS, 1 to CLS, 1 to NYU, 1 to UM, 19 to UC-B and 2 to GULC)
Pepperdine had 4 (1 to HLS, 2 to NYU, 1 to GULC)
Loyola had 1 (to GULC)

Oh man. Thanks for collecting this data. It kind of puts into perspective how transferring isn't that common. It's literally TOP of the class at each of these schools considering how each 1L class size is >200 people

[SFSpartan]

Can't really stress enough how imperative it is that you NOT go to a school with the intent of transferring away. At all of these schools, at least 60% of the class either (i) come in playing the transfer game; or (ii) gun for grades high enough so that they can get biglaw or transfer (this is a larger percentage of the class, and generally comes into play when people get a feel for what being at a school with 50% employment stats is really like). I can confirm that this is the case for UCH, and cannot tell you how many people were disappointed at the beginning of 2L year because they wanted to transfer but didn't have the grades to do so.

Additionally, there is some luck involved in transferring, simply because the grades you need have to be so high. I know of at least one student that had a major life event (think death in the family, major breakup, etc.) that resulted in them tanking a final or two. Even with a transcript filled with A and A- grades, a B- can be all it takes to keep you from transferring.

The bottom line is that it's way easier to get a good LSAT score and go to a lower T14, UCLA, USC, etc. So focus on that.

Thank you guys for all the solid advice. This is the kind of brutal truth I needed I think my biggest concern is that I would like to go to Loyola just thinking about going somewhere for the full 3 years because of their alumni and job prospects. They do well in Big Law, Public Sector, and etc in Southern CA. But Hastings seems to have a LOT of transfer students since they make that T1 cut, but they don't do so hot with employment (I live currently in SF so living cost is not the problem). Are there really that many students also trying to transfer? I had no idea. I assumed it was maybe 50-70 students at most.

Retaking the LSAT is not an option for me anymore. My 3rd retake and I scored in the low 160s. With my GPA, I can't even get into a law school like UCI/UC Davis (schools I would REALLY consider staying all 3 years) because my LSAT score is in their 25% and GPA not even in their 25%[/quote]

I don't think tons and tons of people start 1L thinking "I really want to transfer". But the reality is that there are a lot of people that come into 1L with less than correct ideas about how legal hiring works. At some point during 1L, basically everyone will figure out that the it's pretty tough sledding to get a job outside of biglaw. Accordingly, these people then either start (i) gunning for the grades they need to get biglaw, with an intention of staying; or (ii) doing (i), but trying to transfer instead of staying. Since (i) and (ii) essentially require the same grades, all of these people might as well be trying to transfer. This creates a culture where a bunch of relatively intelligent people work super hard to get top grades. The reality is that not everyone gets to win in that environment.

[HonestAdvice]

I agree with you. Your desire to be number one is something only 3 or 4 people have so although your odds of being valedictorian are 25 percent, you're clearly top 10 percent down.

Years ago, I was on American Idol, which is not technically a law school but the logic is the same. I wasn't just there to have fun or sing. I really wanted to win, and instead of singing a song, I told the judges I wanted to win. They were so impressed by my ambition they canceled the season I. The first episode, and I won. Then I decided I really wanted the island of Crete so I flew to Greece and took a paddle boat to Crete. I told the government I really wanted the island. that I'm ambitious and deserve it. So they all left and I now have a private island. Next up is Mars. We waste so much money on space travel when the reality all it takes to get to Mars is the belief we can get there.

[Sideshow Raheem]

When was your first LSAT take? I'd wait it out until the two-year mark to give yourself a fourth opportunity. Spend the interim improving your score. The LSAT is a very learnable test and there are some extremely helpful resources available on this forum and elsewhere that can help you crack 170. If you can get in that range some of the lower T14 (specifically, NU and GULC - schools that can place you in CA biglaw far more reliably than any of the schools you mentioned) become possibilities, even with a sub-3.0 GPA. You'll also be in line for big scholarships at a school like WUSTL, where transferring to Berkeley or at least UCLA/USC is much more realistic, or ND/GW which should be able to get you back to California with your ties.

[landshoes]

I agree with you. Your desire to be number one is something only 3 or 4 people have so although your odds of being valedictorian are 25 percent, you're clearly top 10 percent down.

Years ago, I was on American Idol, which is not technically a law school but the logic is the same. I wasn't just there to have fun or sing. I really wanted to win, and instead of singing a song, I told the judges I wanted to win. They were so impressed by my ambition they canceled the season I. The first episode, and I won. Then I decided I really wanted the island of Crete so I flew to Greece and took a paddle boat to Crete. I told the government I really wanted the island. that I'm ambitious and deserve it. So they all left and I now have a private island. Next up is Mars. We waste so much money on space travel when the reality all it takes to get to Mars is the belief we can get there.

No need to be an asshole, the OP clearly gets it.

OP, frankly, law school might not be a great choice for you. It happens. You have (cheap? free?) housing in a part of the country that is full of interesting job opportunities. That might be a better option for you than the uphill climb of doing well in the legal field with a low GPA/LSAT combo. Legal jobs aren't all that amazing that you should forego awesome opportunities that will be cheaper to get and easier for you to succeed in.