Character and Fitness worry Forum

[worriedandconfused]

[Removed]

[zot1]

See if you can look up the questions asked by the jurisdiction you're looking to practice in. I would also try to find a person who might remember the questions.

I don't think California asked about anything like this. Plus, you don't even remember doing something so why would you consider disclosing it? Innocent 'til proven guilty, you know?

Stop thinking about it and move on.

[worriedandconfused]

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[omar1]

No need to worry. I'd say there's about 1% chance they will look at something as old and irrelevant as your college app. Even if this 1% comes true, you can always say you made a mistake and checked the wrong box and it has not happened ever again.

[zot1]

I see.

Well, I really don't think it's a concern if you don't even know whether it happened.

I would however delete your original post. You do not want your identity associated with this post.

[HonestAdvice]

Fraud requires intent. You are African American. You could even check it off for law school, and explain in a separate statement you're literally AA, not black. The school would still get to count you as a URM, because it's based on how the applicant identifies his/herself, not skin color.

[Nachoo2019]

Don't stress. It will be fine. Delete your original post and don't put anything on TLS that could identify you because admissions counselors scroll through TLS all the time.

[worriedandconfused]

Removed

[HonestAdvice]

Don't stress. It will be fine. Delete your original post and don't put anything on TLS that could identify you because admissions counselors scroll through TLS all the time.

This is a throwaway, I have another account I normally use. I'll still delete this thread in a couple of days regardless.

I keep getting this recurring feeling that my current university will go through my records and attempt to expel me or retroactively take away my degree for an action that was the result of stupidity and pressure. This is mainly delusional, but I read that if you become someone of note, people will dig into background stuff like this. Sort of like the whole Elizabeth Warren scandal, though I hope I never betray myself and become a politician lol. Anyone care to comment?

Did you check that you were black or that you were African American? The Warren scandal is bizarre not just because she lied on an application, but was essentially living a lie on a daily basis for decades. Regardless, your college is protected by federal law where as job applications are not. You sign your rights away to the bar, but it's not like somebody could just publish them in 20 years. It's conceivable somebody can bribe your provost with a large sum of money, but if you reach a point in society that somebody would pay fifty-grand just to see your college application, you'd clearly have a pretty awesome life.

[bretby]

Fraud requires intent. You are African American. You could even check it off for law school, and explain in a separate statement you're literally AA, not black. The school would still get to count you as a URM, because it's based on how the applicant identifies his/herself, not skin color.

No.

[Nachoo2019]

Fraud requires intent. You are African American. You could even check it off for law school, and explain in a separate statement you're literally AA, not black. The school would still get to count you as a URM, because it's based on how the applicant identifies his/herself, not skin color.

No.

Yeah this is wrong. Adcoms would laugh at that adendum and it would throw up so many red flags of the applicants integrity.

Also, if this was allowed every kid that grew up overseas on military bases in places like Latin America or Africa could claim they are a URM cause they went to grade school and grew up that country.

My dad is middle eastern but grew up Venezuela... that would make me a URM too, right HonestAdvice??? I mean he grew up in Venezuela... I can identify with that. Lol


HonestAvice gives some of the worst most ass backwards advice on this site. Please disregard it OP. You'll be just fine just don't do this for law school apps.

[HonestAdvice]

Fraud requires intent. You are African American. You could even check it off for law school, and explain in a separate statement you're literally AA, not black. The school would still get to count you as a URM, because it's based on how the applicant identifies his/herself, not skin color.

No.

Yeah this is wrong. Adcoms would laugh at that adendum and it would throw up so many red flags of the applicants integrity.

Also, if this was allowed every kid that grew up overseas on military bases in places like Latin America or Africa could claim they are a URM cause they went to grade school and grew up that country.

My dad is middle eastern but grew up Venezuela... that would make me a URM too, right HonestAdvice??? I mean he grew up in Venezuela... I can identify with that. Lol


HonestAvice gives some of the worst most ass backwards advice on this site. Please disregard it OP. You'll be just fine just don't do this for law school apps.

Venezuela isn't URM. The question is also framed as Hispanic/Latino so this example is not relevant because (1) even if you were a native you wouldn't be URM and (2) the apps are all explicit on race - it doesn't ask if you're Mexican-American. It asks if you're "Hispanic," which shows schools are comfortable using racially specific language. Certainly the school understands there is a term "black" referring to skin color, and a term African-American that refers to people who were born or whose parents were born in Africa, but then came to the US.

If the reason for using AA and not skin color is related to being PC then why state race on other demographics? Why not say Mexican-American? If the question is just African-American, the school is making the deliberate decision of defining African-American literally and not racially unless the app includes a footnote ascribing a specific definition of African-American. If it doesn't then why put the burden at reading the school's mind on the applicants? The truth is that our DNA all traces back to Africa so to some extent, we're all African-American, but that's obviously a stretch. Here, OP was physically born in Africa, and then came to the U.S. Where is African-American defined as black?

[reasonable_man]

If you join the black lives matter movement and have a sit down with Al Sharpton, apologize and promise never to do it again, all is forgiven. Hell, if you agree to make a donation to his not for profit, he may authorize you to identify as an AA on your law school apps. At that point, the relation back doctrine kicks in, thereby making your prior misrepresentation a non issue.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Where is African-American defined as black?

In the fucking US census:

"Black or African American” refers to a person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/bri ... 0br-06.pdf

[stego]

Yeah HonestAdvice has no idea what he's talking about. Functionally "black" and "African-American" are synonyms, they're not just a reference to your literal skin color or your literal continent of origin.

[Nachoo2019]

Fraud requires intent. You are African American. You could even check it off for law school, and explain in a separate statement you're literally AA, not black. The school would still get to count you as a URM, because it's based on how the applicant identifies his/herself, not skin color.

No.

Yeah this is wrong. Adcoms would laugh at that adendum and it would throw up so many red flags of the applicants integrity.

Also, if this was allowed every kid that grew up overseas on military bases in places like Latin America or Africa could claim they are a URM cause they went to grade school and grew up that country.

My dad is middle eastern but grew up Venezuela... that would make me a URM too, right HonestAdvice??? I mean he grew up in Venezuela... I can identify with that. Lol


HonestAvice gives some of the worst most ass backwards advice on this site. Please disregard it OP. You'll be just fine just don't do this for law school apps.

Venezuela isn't URM. The question is also framed as Hispanic/Latino so this example is not relevant because (1) even if you were a native you wouldn't be URM and (2) the apps are all explicit on race - it doesn't ask if you're Mexican-American. It asks if you're "Hispanic," which shows schools are comfortable using racially specific language. Certainly the school understands there is a term "black" referring to skin color, and a term African-American that refers to people who were born or whose parents were born in Africa, but then came to the US.

If the reason for using AA and not skin color is related to being PC then why state race on other demographics? Why not say Mexican-American? If the question is just African-American, the school is making the deliberate decision of defining African-American literally and not racially unless the app includes a footnote ascribing a specific definition of African-American. If it doesn't then why put the burden at reading the school's mind on the applicants? The truth is that our DNA all traces back to Africa so to some extent, we're all African-American, but that's obviously a stretch. Here, OP was physically born in Africa, and then came to the U.S. Where is African-American defined as black?

JFC you are an idiot.

[HonestAdvice]

I stand corrected. I still don't think it's a big deal and that most 17 year old kids would just assume they were African American in OP's situation. Nobody will ever see your college application OP, don't worry. I still think it's a ridiculous, and racist phrase. There are black people who migrated west 60,000 years ago, and white people who lived in East Africa for several thousand years.

[RamTitan]

Don't stress. It will be fine. Delete your original post and don't put anything on TLS that could identify you because admissions counselors scroll through TLS all the time.

Holy crap, I'm super terrified now that I'll be remembered as the guy who made 10 threads about caffeine pills and the LSAT.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I stand corrected. I still don't think it's a big deal and that most 17 year old kids would just assume they were African American in OP's situation. Nobody will ever see your college application OP, don't worry. I still think it's a ridiculous, and racist phrase. There are black people who migrated west 60,000 years ago, and white people who lived in East Africa for several thousand years.

I agree that this doesn't matter, but no, most 17 year olds would not just assume they were AA in the OP's situation.

[HonestAdvice]

I stand corrected. I still don't think it's a big deal and that most 17 year old kids would just assume they were African American in OP's situation. Nobody will ever see your college application OP, don't worry. I still think it's a ridiculous, and racist phrase. There are black people who migrated west 60,000 years ago, and white people who lived in East Africa for several thousand years.

I agree that this doesn't matter, but no, most 17 year olds would not just assume they were AA in the OP's situation.

I've never heard anyone refer to themselves as AA. The idea that a black person who descended from American ancestry going back to the 17th century who fought for the North in the Civil War, in both world wars and the Cold War is African-American but Charlize Theron is American-American because she's blonde is pretty racist.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Do you know many African Americans? Yes, plenty of them use the term.

You are getting weirdly literal about this. Words acquire meaning through use. Also, Charloze Theron is South African, and American. She isn't African-American the way the word is used. You could say South African-American if you really wanted, the way you could say Kenyan-American or Sudanese-American. African American just means something different.